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Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: SL (@ 208.49.174.40) on: Fri Sep 29 14:49:01 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya, songs like 'I will sing for you' make sufficient impact on me (regardless of the technicalities) , for me to overlook TMS's bad English pronounciation. I hadn't included ARR, Vidyasagar and Balabarathy in my 'new songs bashing' and therefore you cannot accuse me of harbouring blind prejudice. On the other hand, minor aspects like TMS 'yelling' Banzayee (precisely twice in the song) or a song starting with 'Lilly..' force you to ignore the feel of the musical aspect. Now , who is prejudiced ?:))
  I repeat, except for ARR, VS and Balabarathy and occasionally, Deva , no MD has shown any inclination to charter new territories without compromising on the feel. Take 'Rosapppoo chinna rosappoo'. This is a type of song I would have got tired of hearing in the mid-80s itself. As for copying/recycling , ARR recycles SD Burman's santhams in Hindi and MSV's santhams in Tamil but the composition and presentation remains his own and ARR has never failed in the emotional aspect. The same thing cannot be said about guys like SAR, it is always the same hackneyed method of taking a song along, it becomes just another song for me. New, young, creative directors will directly or indirectly bring about good music and this would guarantee that only those MDs with perceptions matching those of the directors will surive. That's what we need now.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Fri Sep 29 14:51:35 EDT 2000
  
  RajaG,
  Add that to the good songs as +1. What about the other songs in Balanagamma? We don't have an accurate count of bad songs yet. When the entire list of all the songs in these movies is out, we'll see the percentage of bad ones. Tell me aren't you surprised by the number of bad ones?
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Fri Sep 29 14:51:46 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya: If you take 46:23 the percentage is 67%. That means 2 out of 3 songs are good. If you can say that about 1999, I am sorry, I acnnot convince you. Plus keep in mind that all the good songs you have mentioned are non-copy, non-inspiration, in fact no-compromise good. Whereas if you take snEhidhanE you are left with "I wish KSC/Swarna/Sujatha had sung it".
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Fri Sep 29 15:01:14 EDT 2000
  
  SL,
  We're delving into subjective territory here. According to me USV had only three good songs. "Banjaayee" and "Lilly malarukku" make no impact on me musically, lyrically, aesthetically, vocally or emotionally. "Siriththu Vaazha vendum" sounds like a nursery rhyme to me and the lyrics are nauseatingly preachy. I would take "Rosaappoo Chinna Rosappoo" over these three songs any day. "kayyil regai pola serndhiruppaen" has more poetry in it than in any phrase in all those three songs. Granted we have different criteria for songs. If that makes me ignorant then I don't mind being musically ignorant in your esteem.
  
  71-75, I was there man, I know what songs were around. It was not a good period in music.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.202) on: Fri Sep 29 15:07:20 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya/SL: I guess we have two separate topics running here. A comparison between 82+ and 99+, and analysing 71-75. I am restating it to ensure that we are not going to conclude on one using the other.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Fri Sep 29 15:08:04 EDT 2000
  
  RajaG,
  With the full count of all the bad songs and all MDs songs it won't be 67% good songs. "I wish KSC/Swarna/Sujatha had sung it". I can say a similar thing about every one of the songs that MV or IR sang. But I think we're at a Mexican standoff. I'll end it here, let the sun set on this issue, let this fade out.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.202) on: Fri Sep 29 15:15:09 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya: Cool! I only hope that the powers that be in TFM can see this thread and light a fire under their butt and say "cHEy! idhukkaagavaavadhu 10 super hit tharaNum!"
  
  
• From: Ravy (@ 158.106.50.3) on: Fri Sep 29 15:27:40 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya,
  
  Some of the good/great songs that you've left out;
  
  Balanagamma - PalliyaraikkuL malligai - Uma R
  Nandu - Manjal veyil - Uma R
  Kazhugu - Oru poo vanathulae - SPB
  Kadhal ennum theevvil -Murali? (Soolamangalam Rajalakshmi's son)
  Garjanai - Oru ooril oru - MV - okay song
  & there is one more okay song
  Kadal Meengal - Endrendum aanandhamaE - MV (pretty good intro music)
  
  
• From: SL (@ 208.49.174.40) on: Fri Sep 29 15:30:22 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya, getting touchy ?:))) I have no specific criteria to judge songs and there is hardly any interference from the intellect. I have not stated any technical reasons for liking/disliking songs except the "freshness" aspect. I do not emphasize the lyrical aspect as much as you do, and there ends the difference in our tastes and moreoever I have not projected myself as a technical guru or you as an ignoramus.
  
  G, the period 71-76 always reminds me of numbers like 'Malaichaaralil..', 'Gangai nathi Oram','thaane thanakkuL rasikkindraaL',' Kaathal raajjiyam enathu','Angum ingum paathai uNdu', 'kaNNilE enna uNdu','kaathal enbathu kaaviyamaanaal' . Athaan konjam defensive :))
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Fri Sep 29 15:41:09 EDT 2000
  
  SL,
  I have some of my all time favorites from that era, even some of the songs you have listed. But, sila thanimarangal thoappaagaathu. I vividly remember the musical drought characteristic of that period. TFM was basically treading water instead of swimming. I'm not getting touchy, I was just highlighting our differences.
  
  Ravy,
  I have officially shut the door on this, but if you want to add the ones you came up with on the good song list then the list won't be complete unless the bad songs are identified. Anyway, guys, thank you all for giving my keyboard a workout after a long time. Degradation is a serious charge on TFM. One doesn't torch the wherehouse for a few rodents in it. One doesn't get a facelift to cure pimples. We'll meet again I'm sure, probably on opposing sides again. Take care.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Fri Sep 29 15:54:07 EDT 2000
  
  Adada! naan varathukullaye ellam mudinju poche ;))
  
  Udhaya, at first glance I could have easily added 10 songs to your list. Ravy had added some of them.
  
  
  Regarding the mexican standoff that u were pointing out to RajaG, naan nethe sollaliyaa ungakitte, indha list podara exercise futila irukkum nu;)) I knew that at some point it would come down to being a subjective decision.
  
  Thats why I took 2 aspects that are not subjective namely, bad pronunciation and originality or lack there of. now if u list songs based on these aspects and make a comparison, then there is no contest, 82-89 wins hands down;))
  
  But u argued saying that there were many flavours to a song and I took only 2 out of them. I felt that these were strong enough aspects of a song.
  
  If u are interested still u can take other flavours and come out with why 94- should be better than 82- if it could be possibly done in a objective manner.
  
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Fri Sep 29 16:03:44 EDT 2000
  
  rajaG: chchEy! oruththarukoruththar b*maani, kas*maalam, som*ari, appdinnu thittikkaradhukku munnadiyE idhai niruththak koodaadhu:-)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Fri Sep 29 16:12:54 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya,
  
  "Vijay, you and RajaG are sounding like every generation has when they looked at the current generation and shook their heads thinking, "the past was much better", that's just a sign of your aging. "
  
  Firts of all was a little busy, upset to have missed out on the discussions here. just reading thru posts.
  
  unfortunately for u the year that has been considered, 1981, from what I have seen from the list of albums has a good songs of ratio of atleast 70-75%. But lets leave that.
  
  Well maybe Myself and RajaG are aging, but when u get older mostly u get wiser;))
  U have read our posts for quite some time and I think u know that we have appreciated good music in TFMDF and have continued to do so. Its not that I hate new songs in general if thats the opinion that u have.
  
  "Shankar-Ganesh lasted 10 to 15 years contributing a total of maybe 50 good songs to TFM, tell me how they have hurt TFM with the hundreds of bad songs they created. You have admitted above that bad songs don't have an impact, that's why they don't matter. "
  
  Just replace Shankar-Ganesh with Deva in the first line and thats what u have for the last 10 years. And compared to Deva SG were more original.
  
  And barring megame megame most of SG's best songs or popular songs have been original. Take Deva's popular albums, Aasai, nerukku ner, Vaali etc. all are filled with copied songs, in some cases more than 2/album.
  
  Yeah, I have admitted that abd songs do not make an impact on u and hence in the long run u dont remember them. But I havent said anywhere that bad songs do not contribute to the diminishing of TFM standards. Replace all that bad songs with better ones would'nt u have got more songs to talk about, discuss and cherish?
  
  U can always view something from 2 opposite ends and I guess u are just viewing the current situation from a different perspective.
  
  At the end of it all it was good to have someone like u having different thoughts as it helped in creating better arguments after a long time and made us think a bit.
  
  
  
• From: Rajag thondan tnagar tilakdas (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Sep 29 16:16:06 EDT 2000
  
  Kudos to Thailvar manbumegu Uyar thiru Annan Kansas RajaG (Dr pattam Pending)
  for starting a topic and keep it running for 1 week, made sure it does not become another ir vs arr sandai.:))
  
  We have another 4 hrs to go in west coast
  finally ena pa resultU...who is the winner
  udhaya teama illai RajaG teamA...
  
  
  
  

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