Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.232) on: Fri Sep 29 01:03:23 EDT 2000
  
  List of all Tamil movies of Raja in 1981:
  
  Alaigal Oyvathillai
  Aradhanai
  Balanagamma
  Ellam Inbamayam
  Enakkaga Kathiru
  Garjanai
  Indru Poi Naalai Vaa
  Kadal Meengal
  Kanni Theevu
  Karaiyellam Shenbagapoo
  Kazhugu
  Koilpura
  Meendum Kokila
  Nalladhu Nadanthe Theerum
  Nandu
  Netrikkan
  Oru Iravu Oru Paravai
  Panneer Pushpangal
  Rajaparvai
  Ram Lakshman
  Sankarlal
  Tick, Tick, Tick
  Vidiyumvarai Kathiru
  
  Just thought we can compare the output of all MD's together (ironically, that includes IR) in 1999 with the above:-)
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 12.10.193.122) on: Fri Sep 29 02:15:57 EDT 2000
  
  Yearwise comparison of 2 MDs isnt a good idea, cos the output of the composer almost always depends on the directors theme and vision, its a very good team effort.
  
  That brings us to a basic question. Are director's inability to visualise/create interesting novel themes a serious hamper to create good music?
  
  Its corollary is most of ARR's movies. Films like Uzhavan, Kaadhal desam, Kaadhlaar Dinam were pathetic. But the music was good. Similarly, Vidyasagar produced amazing music in Priyam, when the movie sucked big time. Does that mean music composers are trying to carve a niche on their own regardless of the story and director? Does that signify downfall/degenration of TFM?
  
  Or will it create a new trend?
  
  Why not have OST (Orig. Sound Tracks) for TMs? Like English movies, where the songs are not part of the final released version of movie and the OST exists as a separate entity?
  
  This way, they can use the songs merely to promote the film in TV and the net and use it as a good promotion tool, while audiences will be releived of sitting thru the numerous song and dance routines that've become absolutely annoying when the story is trying to take shape.
  
  What say u folks?
  
  --Karthik S
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Fri Sep 29 09:42:52 EDT 2000
  
  Karthik S: Hate to burst your bubble buddy! The song and dance routines have not been included keeping you in mind. There is a much larger segment for which movie is an entertainment, a fantasy world which they probably will never get into. They go to the movies and for many of them, the story line is a 'useless distraction' to an otherwise good sequence of songs and dances.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri Sep 29 12:56:26 EDT 2000
  
  rajaG ..good point. Movies are the only vehicle right now to deliver music to the public. Unfortunately..yes this is the current state. Not many can buy cassetter/CD players still in our country. Otherwise. people like ARR (who are not interested in BGM) will be making albums.
  
  I appreciate Udhaya's optimism but I fail to understand the reasons. TFM is a good example of 'competition does not necessarily mean quality'. I agree people like Deva are capable of more but one can only achieve what one aims for. And making musical milestones is not his goal !!
  
  To make a study using statistical sampling ..lets analyze the top 10 in raaga.com. Many songs remind me of hindi songs that were released 10 years back. Some sound similar. Of course, there are good ones by ARR and IR (but at two ends of the spectrum ??). People like ARR and IR, make a debut with a bang. But here we have a new MD making a mediocre entrance. It is not that I am denigrating the new talent but the lack of desire to achieve something higher.
  
  So the degeneration is not so much as the lack of quality rather than a desire for quality.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Fri Sep 29 13:14:14 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay,
  Just list out every song from eden's list here and try and tell me that every song in these movies is a good song, a song that helped improve the quality of TFM. That's been my argument all along: there have always been bad songs right from MKT times, it's only natural. Now we can categorize the kinds of bad songs by pronunciation, content, singing, music, the result is--it's a bad song.
  
  SL, "I will sing for you" could be a ragamaliga for all I care, it's a horrible experiment with bad English lyrics sung by TMS. It's a bad song.
  
  Vijay, you and RajaG are sounding like every generation has when they looked at the current generation and shook their heads thinking, "the past was much better", that's just a sign of your aging. Shankar-Ganesh lasted 10 to 15 years contributing a total of maybe 50 good songs to TFM, tell me how they have hurt TFM with the hundreds of bad songs they created. You have admitted above that bad songs don't have an impact, that's why they don't matter.
  
  IR was a nobody when he got discovered, but he had put in his time and gathered his musical riches while waiting for his break so when he got his break he was ready to fly. I wonder how many undiscovered out there have that kind of potential. Maybe these undiscovered ones need to keep knocking on doors and keep accumulating their musical riches so when they get an opportunity, they don't blow it.
  
  But tell me, will you be among the ones who when the undiscovered hundreds of good singers get their break say "they're not as good as SPB"? Whether you welcome them or not the industry is full of people with that attitude, that's why new blood is hard to come by.
  
  There have always been third-string periphery players with a very low percentage of success, but they never dictated the overall trend or growth in the industry. Progress in TFM has been at a glacial speed, but when you look back at a ten year stretch there has always been steady growth.
  
  
• From: Ravy (@ 158.106.50.3) on: Fri Sep 29 14:05:46 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya & SL
  
  Your memories seem to be confined only to MGR & Sivaji movies. How about these less publicized movies scored by Vijayabhaskar? These were released between 73 & 75
  
  1. Mayangugiral Oru maadhu
  (sugam 1000 en ninaivilae by VJ, Oru puram vedan)
  2. Mogam 30 varusham
  (enadhu vaazhkai paadhayil & samsaaram enbadhu veenai by SPB)
  3. Uravu solla oruvan
  (mohana punnagai oorvalamaE by KJY)
  4. Thennangeetru
  (Maanikka maamanui malayil & another one I'm unable to recall at this time - by SPB)
  
  Udhaya,
  Much expected Sivaji movies like Dr.Siva, Anbae Aaruyirae, en magan, Utthaman etc were successive box-office duds. May be that gave you an impression that all was not well with TFM then. But I still feel copying was not as rampant as now (Shankar-Ganesh notwithstanding).
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Fri Sep 29 14:32:32 EDT 2000
  
  Ravy,
  You're right, if we add all the movies from those years, my point will be substantiated. Now let's do a sample from Eden's list:
  
  Alaigal Oyvathillai
  -dharisanam (good)
  -vizhiyil vizhundhu(good, although BSS badly sang it).
  -1000 thaamarai (great )
  -Kadhal Oaviyam (good)
  -Puththam pudhukkaalai (good)
  -vaadi en kappak kelangae (enjoyable but crass song)
  
  Aradhanai
  -Oru kungumach Chengamalam (Great song)
  -Ilam panithuli (Great song)
  -any others?
  
  Balanagamma
  Don’t know any song from this much less a good song
  There’s at least 2 bad songs here
  
  Ellam Inbamayam
  No good songs
  There’s at least 2 bad songs here
  
  Enakkaga Kathiru
  -Dhaagam edukkira neram (good)
  -pani mazhai vizhum (good)
  -oh nenjamae (good)
  
  Garjanai
  -don’t remember any good songs from this movie
  There’s at least 2 bad songs here
  
  Indru Poi Naalai Vaa
  -Madhana moga ruba (pretty good song)
  -ammaadi china pappa (bad song)
  -any others?
  
  Kadal Meengal
  -thaalaattuthae (great song)
  -mayilae mayilae (originally an incestuous song, “Madhuni madhuni” but later cleaned up by IR and co., pretty good song)
  -any others?
  
  Kanni Theevu
  -can’t remember, must have been bad
  There’s at least 2 bad songs here
  
  Karaiyellam Shenbagapoo
  -kadellaam pichchipoovu (an okay song by IR)
  -aeriyilae elandhamaram (another okay song, no groundbreaker)
  
  Kazhugu
  -don’t remember any good songs in this movie
  There’s at least 2 bad songs here
  
  Koilpura
  -amudhae thamizhae (good)
  -someone list the other ones
  
  Meendum Kokila
  -radha radha nee engae (good)
  -hae oraayiram (okay song)
  -ponnaana meni (pretty good)
  -chinnanjiru vayadhil (great song)
  
  Nalladhu Nadanthe Theerum
  -someone tell me the good songs here
  There’s at least 2 bad songs here
  
  Nandu
  -kaisae kahoon (good)
  -hum he (SJ singing Hindi, average song)
  -alliththandha boomi (great song)
  
  Netrikkan
  -Ramanin Mohanam (good)
  -theeraatha vilayaattu (bad)
  -an MV song which fails my memory, probably fails to be good too
  
  Oru Iravu Oru Paravai
  -someone list the good songs from this movie
  There’s at least 2 bad songs here
  
  Panneer Pushpangal
  -koadai kaala kaatrae (good)
  -poondhalir aada (good)
  -anandha ragam (good)
  -vegatha soru (bad)
  
  Rajaparvai
  -vizhi orathu kanavum (okay song)
  -andhi mazhai (great)
  -azhagu (great)
  
  Ram Lakshman
  -naanthaan ngoppandaa (horrible song)
  -vizhiyil un vizhiyil (good )
  -valibamae vaa vaa (pretty good)
  -any others?
  
  Sankarlal
  -ilangiliyae innum vilangaliyae (bad song due to bad English lyrics)
  -can’t remember any other good ones
  There’s at least 2 bad songs here
  
  Tick, Tick, Tick
  -poo malarndhida (good)
  -naetru indha neram (okay)
  -there’s another okay song
  
  Vidiyumvarai Kathiru
  -pesu en anbae (bad song)
  -there are a few more bad ones I can’t remember
  There’s at least 2 bad songs here
  
  I have given my rating and the count above. You want to know the tally of good and bad songs? Are you ready?
  The good ones (counting okay songs)= 37
  The bad ones = 24
  
  As the supporters have claimed, it was a good year at IR's peak! The ratio of good:bad was 37:24. I'll let the math wizards figure out how good a percentage you get with 37:24. You can increase the good songs by another 8 and make it 45. Even then you have more than 50% bad songs right? And remember, this is not counting all the other MDs around that year!
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Fri Sep 29 14:46:54 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya: Balanagamma - koondhalilEy mEgham vandhu by KJY is a fantastic song.
  
  Did I miss PayaNangaL mudivadhillai in 1982 (raaga dheepam, iLaya Nila, thOgai iLamayil, E Aththaa, vaigariayil, saalaiyOram - all good with one contending for song of the decade). I am positive about it. There were some other IR hits during that time which have been missed here.
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments