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Is Vairamuthu better than Kannadaasan?

Topic started by Prabhar (@ ppp45-216.lvsb.vsnl.net.in) on Thu Jul 2 09:40:00 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Yes......The greatest joke of the year!
Courtesy: Sivaji Ganesan
Reference: Kungumam weekly.
My opeinon: KD malai yentral VM madu....

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: rjay (@ 204.220.169.94) on: Thu Jul 16 05:37:54 EDT 1998
  
  udhaya,
  
  thanks.
  
  your view 'art is amoral' is explosive! but my question is should it necessarily be? Does amoral nature sustain art?
  
  somehow
  most people seem to agree that it is OK for artists to have
  an amoral life and excuse their personal shortcomings ranging from anger and unpunctuality - ranging to irritating self centeredness and adultery and cheating etc. i recently read a 1960's essay about musician wagner
  listing a horrendous list of atrocities he did and
  finally concluding 'inspite of all this, he is still remembered because of the masterpieces he did'
  
  the writer also feels that art possesses a
  person and then he becomes at its mercy.
  
  while this symphathetic view is good to have
  for us as observers, as artists and human beings
  we should strive to be whole human beings -
  more considerate and compassionate.
  
  Personally, if being compassionate is going to
  reduce the flame of my art, i would rather accept it. I see danger in valuing art more than humaneness. For me, Einstein is a great
  guy.
  
  Again, these are sweeping generalities I am
  making. I dont mean kannadasan was inhumane. But I feel that when art possesses one, one may become insensitive to many things and people.
  
  I noticed that the activity from this thread has shifted to the symposium page and so took the
  liberty on this topic.
  
  thanks for the reply,
  rjay
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Thu Jul 16 10:56:07 EDT 1998
  
  rjay: Einstien had a not so savoury personal life too. :-)
  
  
• From: Marx (@ breeze-fddi.bellcore.com) on: Thu Jul 16 13:00:17 EDT 1998
  
  hi,
  
  I am kinda new to this place. So excuse me if I
  dont put my thoughts in the proper way.. :-)
  
  I am 22 but I have listened to many songs of both
  KD and Vm. I firmly believe that KD beats VM by a
  large margin. KD's songs make sense always and his
  quality never came down. But VM is not like that.
  I love Vairamuthu's many old songs (most of them
  were the ones he wrote for IR). But his quality
  has gone down pretty bad recently. I simply cannot
  understand why he should write songs like "mutham
  thara" in some Arjun movie. Kannadasan too wrote
  some songs like this. But not to the point of vulgarity as in many of VM's songs. I can give you lots and lots of examples with respect to this point.
  
  Vaira muthu wrote excellent songs in many 80's
  movies. But not in the 90's. And definitely I
  vote for Kannadasan. By the way, I dont like the
  songs in the movie "ROJA" also.. So pathetically
  made up...
  
  Marx
  
  PS: I have never read poems of either.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu Jul 16 13:31:25 EDT 1998
  
  Marx, if you would like to share with us the good stuff by Kannadhaasan and VM without bringing any judgements beyond the lyrics, then please join us at the Kannadhaasan Vs. VM TFM symposium threads which is three threads strong and was borne from this thread.
  rjay, I should better articulate my statements. All I'm saying is I certainly wouldn't want Wagner as a friend. But I certainly wouldn't stop listening to Wagner because he was immoral. I take what's good and move on. I'm an adult who can differentiate the good and bad influences. If kids need role models, they should look to their parents and elders in the family. If only austere spirits were allowed to participate in art then, art would be very subdued, holy, tame, and ultimately spiritless.
  I really enjoy such discussions, rjay. I wish you would participate more in DF.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 204.220.169.94) on: Mon Jul 20 01:04:48 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya,
  
  Well said. Thanks for provoking my
  thoughts further on this subject- on all
  the aspects (adult response, role models for
  kids). The following thoughts are not arguments
  but just loud thoughts.
  
  Growing up in age, unfortunately, does not make one an adult in the
  sense of ability to discriminate between good
  and bad! In fact, we rely on our role models even
  when we grow up, to decide what is good and what is bad!
  
  If there is a way to make kids follow
  only role models from family and regulate harmful aspects of peer pressure and societal hero-es influence
  that would be great! Art, being a very attention
  catching, can subdue discrimination and reasoning. If the music is good we do not
  evaluate the lyrics much!
  
  I am questioning myself regarding your
  statement that art world will be lifeless if
  only austerees would be allowed it. I see it
  as a large scale version of the statement -
  'if I am moral, my life would be boring and stale'.
  I dont agree with that. Notice that you have
  unconsciously translated 'moral' into
  'holy tame subdued and austere'.
  
  Anyway, I am thinking through my own thoughts
  in the light of what you have said, thanks.
  
  More later
  RJAY
  
  
• From: ayyappan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Mon Jul 20 12:16:58 EDT 1998
  
  one basic doubt
  Recall Vairamuthu's words in JEANS
  Nam Kadalai kavi padave
  Shelliyin VAIRANIN kallarai thookkathai
  kalaithiduvom.
  
  Here who is this Vairan ? Is it Vairamuthu?
  Is anyone around to clarify?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jul 20 17:42:19 EDT 1998
  
  rjay,
  I do find art that is moralistic to be very subdued, tame, austere, and bound. This is admittedly a very personal opinion. I have always admired artists who went beyond the norm and danced on the edge of what society considers outrageous. I can't imagine the arts without Kannadhaasan, Salvador Dali, Mozart, Wagner, Vincent Van Gogh, Richard Pryor, M.R. Radha, Franz Liszt, Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis, Shakespeare, Oscar Wilde, Pudhumaippiththan, Sundhara Ramasaamy, Jayagaandhan, Sujaathaa,etc. Most of the ones I mentioned above got in trouble with their respective cultures because they were flamboyant personalities whose art was/is subversive, dangerous, and influential.
  I think Art is hard to pin down by moral or human constructs. It is as irreverant and random as life itself. Art, like life, is rarely consequential where you reap what you sow. It rewards unworthy people with its gift and denies the most austere disciple the magic. So it is important to appreciate the art itself and not the carrier of the art.
  I would like to quote VM's lyrics to make my point: Kannadhaasan pol thanni adichchaa
  kavidhai varumaa kazhuthaikku
  ayyappan,
  VM wrote "Shelley-in Byron-in as in Lord Byron a Romantic poet (who incidentally could join my list of rascal artists above)
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 204.220.167.184) on: Tue Jul 21 01:19:55 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya,
  
  I am awed by your eloquence and clear thinking. I do agree that art blossoms most
  when an individual is uninhibited. The moment
  you try to correct what you say and check
  it against what others would accept, what you say
  becomes what others would like you to say.
  Authenticity and genuine emotion is the basis
  of art. In that sense, artists who express themselves out extend the scope and range
  of art.
  
  At the same time I feel that an artist should
  also have a clean and beautiful personal
  life - not necessarily austere, but responsible
  successful and in control. If by nature, art is
  disintegrative, we would rather do away with
  it, because it is dangerous.
  
  Your view has not taken into account another group of artists - who are
  personally disciplined as well as perceptive
  and expressive. Illayaraja, Sujatha.
  Look at the eroticism in Nila Kayudhu and
  Ponmeni.
  
  Actually, I was not passing any judgements on
  KD but just wishing how
  much KD could have accomplished by
  focussing on better things and disciplining
  himself to bring lasting value to the society -
  This was not as a charge on him, but as a possibility
  every artist should strive towards.
  
  For me, art should not stop at reflecting
  life, it should inspire good living. Maybe I
  am asking for too much. Maybe being true
  to life is the highest goal art can serve! Let
  me not conclude anything here.
  
  Thanks a lot for your clear thoughts. It helps
  to think through and not settle on naive
  platitudes. Also looks like this is a subject
  that has disturbed you too.
  
  We have occupied the thought space here
  too much that anyone who drops in to ask
  a question gets a quick reply and we jump back
  to our dialogue. Maybe we should carry on
  this outside the forum. You can mail me
  at rjaymidi@yahoo.com
  
  Your expression is excellent! Thanks again.
  
  Anbudan,
  RJAY
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Jul 21 13:52:30 EDT 1998
  
  RJAY,
  Thanks, this has been a great dialogue indeed. I don't believe we were too far out of the topic, if so the DF Admin would have stopped us. I like what has come out of this discussion. Maybe I will start this as a discussion topic someday soon.
  
  
• From: badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Wed Jul 22 01:24:35 EDT 1998
  
  i went through this topic only today and i found a fundamental flaw in defining the topic. are we trying to see who is superior in terms of their padaippu or in terms of their personal life? if it is the latter, then we might have to do a thorough dissection of VM's life and imo this is totally unwarranted. as somebody has already created a separate topic on artist's amoral behaviour, let us proceed with the padaippu aspect of these individuals.
  
  are we talking about saleability or content or impact? (i am forced to bring this because of the hypothetical situation of vm being born before kd and so on)
  
  again, why this obsession on comparison be it md or singer or lyricist? can we not enjoy their works as they are and not in relative frame?
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Jul 22 16:41:44 EDT 1998
  
  badhri, we are doing the symposium based on padaippu only. As for comparisons, I think it's an inherent evil in DF threads, so one can either participate or stick to very few threads. I do a combination of both.
  
  Ravi, I think this thread should be yanked now because there are three threads going on about the same issue and to leave this open only invites more postings.
  
  
• From: Raman (@ 230.houston-15-20rs.tx.dial-access.att.net) on: Wed Jul 29 17:55:08 EDT 1998
  
  Pondatti pattu ezhudhik koduthu periya alana vairamuthu can never be compared with the greatest Kannadasan.
  Maybe we can compare Kannadasan with the greats like Pattukkottai Kalyanasundaram, Bharathiyar etc.
  There is no point in comparing Kannadasan with
  this cheap guy.
  
  

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