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'IR says NO to songs put on the net'

Topic started by Subbiah (@ 192-39-7147.unisys.com) on Mon May 15 09:03:40 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Please refer to the latest message from IR in his official website www.raaja.com. He has requested the fans not to upload the songs on the net. He is asking to buy the original CD's/Tapes. I feel that he is right. I would like to see other's reaction to this IR's statement. Please proceed.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Tue May 16 11:42:15 EDT 2000
  
  G:
  
  His remuneration is not linked. But he gets a fixed amount for each cassette/ cd sold. For eg. he got Rs 5 on every kaadhal dhEsam cassette sold ( source: kumudham).
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 209.36.218.162) on: Tue May 16 12:55:15 EDT 2000
  
  Suresh,
  
  I can name 4 fat cows of the top of my head:
  
  1)Pyramid Audio and Video (this company started with video rentals and now has enough money to make big budget movies, hence a corporate fat cow in my book)
  
  2)Thomson Audio (probably out of Kerala/Middle East). I've heard the owner of this venture was a millionaire way back in the 80s, unless someone can refute this claim, Thomson is a fat cow.
  
  3 & 4)Ramiy and Saregama are the upstarts like Pyramid once was. I don't know about their grosses so far, but if they stick around in the business couple more years they're making a bundle just on the NRIs abroad.
  
  Here's the world's smallest violin (actually my fingers playing air violin)to mourn the unfairness to corporations.
  
  Suresh, I agree that my attitude is cavalier and it's fully warranted here. I truly liked your views though. You are a purist, you're the kind of person I would love to have as friends or at least like to do business with to sell my useless old car for a ridiculous price (okay, I'm kidding about the latter part, I have no business sense)
  
  As a compromise, I wouldn't mind hearing half the song, up to the first charanam. But, really, if I love a song or soundtrack, hearing it on the net isn't enough for me, I would buy it.
  
  
• From: chandy (@ ws025038.coba.siu.edu) on: Tue May 16 13:00:25 EDT 2000
  
  rajaG,
  
  How many of us depend on net-songs for our listening pleasures? Most of us would prefer to listen to it while driving or at home using CDs, or audio tapes anyday. So, net songs is only for sampling, and initial listening. There are ways to upload songs with security mechanisms which wouldnt allow anyone to download them. So, if people have to listen to those songs, they have to listen to them only at that web site. Music companies can adopt such ways to attract customers and later, convert them into "buyers".
  
  The concept of free sampling is nothing new. In fact, in earlier days when radio was very popular, people listened to songs on radio for feww, before they went out and bought the audio tapes. If there was a option to pre-sample music on net or buy an audio tape for $3 to just get some idea about music, I'd rather listen to it for free on net, than spend $3. This is normal human attitude.
  
  Suresh, I have to agree with you on the "recording ceters" in TN which have always practised privacy. I dont think there was an effort to even curb or control them.
  
  chandy
  
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ mail.startec.net) on: Tue May 16 14:40:10 EDT 2000
  
  "I feel loading complete songs definitely violates an opportunity for the song to be otherwise bought by 'you the consumer'."
  
  How ? Those who can afford it, are going to buy the original if they like it. Those who cannot afford it are not going to buy anyway. Atleast they could advertise the song by word-of-mouth ! Total win-win scenario for MDs and Music Companies.
  
  "By insisting that IR or ARR should give all hits in a cassette/CD is an unrealistic standard"
  
  Because they are not up to the task ? :-) New albums may contain a few bad apples - that is why most people would rather wait for a few months and buy combos which have a better "hit" ratio. The older collections can atleast be compiled with some amount of conscience !
  
  "Plus, who gets to decide what a good song or hit is? "
  
  Perhaps, you would like to setup a panel with MS as an expert judge for this too !!! Soooorrryyyy, I just couldn't resist this one ;-)))) NOM :-))) But, c'mon, we all know how to differentiate hits from "un-hits" :-) Heck, we make them hits, after all !!!
  
  "If you think that CDs are overpriced at $12 a pop (compared to American CDs) then buy a cassette at $3 (which is definitely comparable to the price of local cassettes) and then buy the CDs that are "proven". "
  
  Aasa, dosa, appalaam vada ! Now you want me to pay for the trailer as well ? :-))) You get want to have your cake and eat it too ?
  
  "True that there are other forms of piracy but that doesn't justify the existence of one more."
  
  Cure the cancer first and then go in for the nose job :-) Priorities, priorities !
  
  "My question on a related issue is...So why are the MDs championing the cause against piracy (instead of the Producers)? "
  
  Because they don't have a freakin' clue !
  
  rajaG, *ALL*, bar none, my replies are tongue-in-cheek :-) NOM !
  
  
• From: Balaji (@ webproxy05qfe0.sbi.com) on: Tue May 16 14:56:00 EDT 2000
  
  Just a digression:
  
  Udhaya:
  
  Is not 'Saaregama' the portal for HMV/EMI record company, the biggest fat cow of Indian Music Industry. Though not big as yesteryears, they have the rights for more than 80% of the old songs in all INDIAN languages (Near 100% pre 75s)
  
  End Digression
  
  Balaji
  
  
• From: Prabhudas (@ gw.winthrop.org) on: Tue May 16 15:24:05 EDT 2000
  
  This was my posting few months ago in a related thread at http://www.newtfmpage.com/forum/431.10.13.19.html.
  
  Let us look at some available statistics and info about piracy,
  
  1.Till mid 80's to late 80's radio( transistor as was popularly known for some time) was only the major entertainment mass media especially to listen to new songs /old songs by people , I am talking about the poor class and the lower and even many upper middle class population of our country (India) , though TV was there only in urban cities it was not a true entertainment media even for rich/upper middle class.
  Cassette players were not affordable by many lower middle class people till late 80's or even early 90's (except Tea kadai owners, who by the way one of the biggest and cheap advertisers available in most parts of TN for all sorts of music depending on their taste, and I am sure many of us must have had a great experience of listening to some of the IR songs for the first time in a tea shop which immediately motivated to buy the cassettes).And an average cassette from a major brand name manufacturer starting from HMV, AVM, ECHO, during those years were not less than 25 to 30 Rs each, at the same time even the big time pirated cassettes which were sold on road sides in most big cities were sold 10 Rs. each, some sold 3 for 20 Rs., I don't know how many of us were able to buy the original cassettes or even the pirated cassettes , being college /school students coming from different social classes, (remember the major social class in India is the poor and lower middle class). manufactures.
  
  Then came the CDs and CD player, having moved to different parts of World we tend to think CD player is fastly replacing cassette players in India, I do not have statistics but , if any of us think that way it is merely an illusion, inspite of the satellite TV boom, higly competative marketing by different brand audio cassettes (there are brands of cassettes even named after hit movies, I saw Gentle Man audios/cassettes some time back, man is'nt this crazy?)People can buy a average cassette player for the price one pays for single CD, so that explains quite well about the current status of CD/ CD players in India,
  
  and finally, accessability of Computer and availabilty of internet sevice in India, we must be kidding, it is definitely not a mass entertainment media for Indian standards (especially I mean for listening to audio files,) this being the case I strongly doubt if the internet media especially with a intention to popularise TFM or for that matter IFM should ever be considered as causing any monetary damages to musicians or considered as piracy. As aptly said by Karthik first we should point fingers at ourselves as pirates (although Pliagarism and piracy are two different things altogether) for having taped songs at least even once in our life time.
  
  I remember one of the HCIRF once writing e mails to lot of other regular TFM surfers, requesting them to mail him the latest updates about IR just because he couldn't access internet on a regular basis in Indi, imagine how lucky are those who have access to net 24 hours and who are listening all over the world to the rare great hits of IR which are so difficult to find in originals even if you go hunting several places ( A life time great work by all those web masters, from Rex to Kala, but it is so sad that everybody has started, turning away from a great cause, popularising TFM
  a small digression, Rex and others, believe me friends, listening to the audio files uploaded over net has helped a lot of people cherish their fond memories, their immense nostalgic experiences, their bondage with their kiths and kins far apart, thier continuing association with the heritage and culture of their own, a few thousand to million people listening to internet songs doesn't make a big impact in terms of affecting the royalty/monetary aspect of an established musician for the following reasons
  
  1.Number of people with access to internet media is way down compared to the common people living in low socio economic class in different parts of India
  
  2.Invariably people having access to internet do also have other sources and resources to relish music apart from just the net samples/promos, especially Cdplayers, good audio systems.
  
  3.The no.of TFMsurfers who regularly surf and participate in TFMDF are just too few, though the stats say there are more than million hits every months lots of them are loyal revisitors, and almost each and every one of them must be enjoying listening to songs in better quality.
  
  
  As said by Bhadri,it is the bad marketing strategies /greediness by the big time audio/music industries which are the true enemies of their own as well as the enemies for the great talented musicians, in turn become big time cheaters to the mass for selling cassettes at enormously high cost making un believable profits.
  
  As per statistics in Indian industrial economic history, the 2 big time changes which paved way to lot of competition , change and exposed the the big giants were :1. T series audios entering film music in 80's leading to biggest ever drop in HMV sales,(HMV was almost at the verge of closure in mid 90's, but for super duper sales of one single album HAHK)
  2.the other being Nirma washing powder which almost washed out Surf from Hindustan Lever.
  
  For a transient period, even Echo cassettes came out with low priced single movies cassttes for price as low as 16 Rs to 18 Rs, from their regular 30 Rs, which I am sure must have eliminated to some extent the pirated cassttte makers (Ex: Geethanjali, Amman koyil Kizhakkale, etc all as single movie albums ).
  
  Well everybody knows how with MP3 files coming on net by the new singers themselves in US shook the big giants (BGM and Columbia) who were making bilions of dollars so far, who all have come down dramatically on their prices in the last 2 years (can you believe them making a profit of 8 to 9 times the production cost on each CD), in a questionnaire survey in UCSF in the last 8 months the percentage of university students buying new CDs had dramatically decreased by 67%, because of the availability of custom made MP3 files of their choice in web sites, but this kind of thing to happen in India wil take atleast several more years with out any doubts absolutely,
  
  music producers should look at the grass roots at the buying capcity of an average lower middle class person and market it in an affordable , intelligent way, the more no. they sell, automatically the more profit they will make 'cos that is the biggest population which will make the difference , not the net surfers, eliminating the piracy to a great extent.
  
  And again for Rex and others, unless if you people have any legal (major or minor) obligations/ethical concerns, I humbly request you guys to continue your service , do not even think about the true music lovers of not buying original cassettees , and these are the ones who make more frequent visits these sites and these are the one who spread the info about your great dedicated services.By stopping uploading you are just depriving the true fans an opportunity to listen and indirectly spread the TFM to lot others,also believe me by just stopping internet audio media (I am talking about new songs), it is not going to contribute even the slightest amount in terms of preventing piracy, it can only affect the net surfers in making a decision about either buying the album or not, and if they decide to buy
  I am pretty sure they will definitely buy original cassttes/Cds. Obviously the ones who continue to buy pirated CDs are in no way going to be influenced by your latest stand , it doesn't matter in any case for them.
  
  There are a whole lot of factors even when it comes to buying qulityaudio cassttes/CDs, I once bought Lakshmi audio CD (who claim original and have majority of IR late 80's album) desperately just because I couldn't find any other original source, the quality sucks.
  
  
  All are in my personal opinion
  
  Prabhudas
  
  
  Some new stats.
  Currently there are 60 million net users in US and another 60 million users in the rest of the world, I don't know how many in India, I am sure it is very minimal, and hence the net piracy is extremely minimal compared to the mainstream dubbing/recording centers which have mushroomed in all parts of South India.
  
  As somebody suggested, the Manufacturers of audio labels (CDs) like Pyramid, Oriental can start some secure sites with password protection and allow MP3 files to download with a fee on per song basis, which many western mp3 audio sites are doing now. The other issue about fullscale piracy by the Rewritable CD recorders by many shops in India with almost similar recording quality are the main culprits who are selling recorded CDS (Custom made) at a relatively cheaper price. The audio label manufacturers should come down on their prices, PERIOD. See the fate of the big companies BGM/Columbia in US here.
  
  All in my openion.
  
  Prabhudas
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Tue May 16 16:16:44 EDT 2000
  
  I just bought 4 cassettes from India :
  
  my father could find karisak kAttup poovE & kaNNa unai thEdugirEn. He just could not find bharani and gummippAttu - which I believe are just 4-5 months old. The solution : the savior - the recording shop. I had to record bharani and gummippAttu bcos I could not find the originals !
  
  While I am a pirater, I also have 3 original CDs of Hey Ram (1 Hindi, 2 Tamil), both original CD and cassette versions of various Raja movies, multiple language versions of Raja movies (dubs) - Geethanjali & idhaiyathai thrudAdhe, swathi muthyam & sippikkul muthu, nammoora mandhara hoove and the tamil version (junk recording from HMV).
  
  

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