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Vani Jayaram's songs

Topic started by avvaiyar (@ 203.116.61.132) on Wed Jan 27 02:29:28 EST 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I'm a new visitor to this website. I couldn't see anyone discussing about Vani Jayaram's songs.
Let me start this one.(It had been there previously pls. forgive me!)

"Ezhu swarangalukkul ethanai paadal..
Ithaya surangathul ethanai kelvi...
Vaazhum manitharukkul ethanai salanam.."

Wow! Beautiful voice!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Fri Dec 21 14:06:54 EST 2001
  
  Thank you. I did read the other posts. Can we agree to disagree, and leave it at that?
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.80.174) on: Fri Dec 21 22:13:52 EST 2001
  
  Naaz:
  
  Yes, I get your point - its clear like crystal. Yes, the award does multiply the appeal of that song. Anyway, I am yet to find anything faulty in the "seethapathe" part of "brocheva..". In fact, I find the nsuing sargam a miracle, a Vani-esque miracle.
  
  Thanks a lot. Your explanations are convincing to a large extent.
  
  Observer:
  
  u said that VJs classical singing is good, not great. Can u please substantiate your claim with more detailed examples???? Else, it is a blanket statement. Also u cannot compare Latas classical singing with Vanis singing in shankara... et al, because Lata's songs were based on Hindustani, and Vanis on Carnatic. these things cannot be compared.
  
  
• From: Meerakrishna (@ 148.87.1.170) on: Sat Dec 22 01:14:21 EST 2001
  
  I like 'Dorakuna Iduvanti Seva' song from Shankarabharanam. Very beautifully and effortlessly sung by Vani. Mr avr please do hear vani's 'Aa Devare Nudida Modala Nudi', movie 'Bilee Hendti'.You might know that 'Happiest Movement' song is also from the same movie.
  
  regards
  Meera
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 202.144.44.234) on: Sat Dec 22 01:36:52 EST 2001
  
  Naaz, can u just mail me please. Most probably I may personally take that VJ cassette from u. :-) Details in mail.
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.205) on: Sat Dec 22 02:35:27 EST 2001
  
  avr, my observation was that VJ's was in no way a 'heaven sent' classical rendition, for me. Haven't we all listened to a bazillion classical renditions in films in Indian FM? Let's leave things at that. I can point out my perceived flaw by mail and can only hope you will get convinced. Please do send in a mail.
  
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 202.144.44.234) on: Sat Dec 22 03:36:47 EST 2001
  
  Naaz, please put this id also in cc. i may check mails outside today.
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 202.144.44.234) on: Sat Dec 22 03:37:00 EST 2001
  
  Naaz, please put this id also in cc. i may check mails outside today.
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 202.144.44.234) on: Sat Dec 22 03:38:10 EST 2001
  
  sorry naaz, please take the yahoo one. thanks.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.80.84) on: Sat Dec 22 11:12:50 EST 2001
  
  has VJ composed music herself?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Dec 22 11:36:52 EST 2001
  
  The seethapathe section in Shankarabharanam (I listened to it a few time again yesterday) is essay with an astounding sense of timing and precision. Everytime I heard that section, one thing became more and more clear: The rapid-fire brilliance of the swaras which bring the song to its climax left the earlier SPB (no ordinary singer) swaras (paced more leisurely) in a stupor (or so it seemed.) VJ and her singing are the final, and the only ecstatic moments that linger with you long after the song has ended. The swara-sanchar is the crowning glory of that particular song. Of course, this is my personal (albeit musically informed) opinion.
  
  Ragavan, you are aware that I make my home in North America, illaiya?
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.80.84) on: Sat Dec 22 11:42:38 EST 2001
  
  naaz:
  
  you bet!! I wish the NA was mentioned in the name of THIS song (rather than the much simpler manasa sancharare). But lets give Mr Sundarraman the benefit of doubt :-))
  
  BTW, in shankarabharanam, all the Vani solos are too fragmentary and small. Its this song that stands as the crowning glory of the movie, and of course even "dorakuna yituvanti seva".
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Dec 22 11:44:44 EST 2001
  
  Can someone tell me how one indentifies a "heaven-sent" rendition? Would that be ( and I am just guessing here...) a classical song (out of the bazzillion) sung by either Lata, P.Suseela or SP Bala...And who certifies such songs? Trained musicians? Astute Critics? Die-hard Fans? Indulgent Gods? Or just your pamaramakkal....aam janata?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Dec 22 11:58:18 EST 2001
  
  AVR - Here is an interesting note on the film: If you have seen the film.....In the latter half of the story there is a duet (SPB/SJ) Samajavaragamana - that the daughter sings when there is a "proposal" scene - to demonstrate her training in the Arts (music). She loses herself in a reverie. The song carries her into an imaginary world and before she can stop herself she gets the raga-alapana wrong - the song is curtailed as her father (the great musician) is offended by her mistake and lack of attention. The evening is ruined.
  
  In the following scene, the daughher makes up for her mistake by singing the raga-alaapana once again as she rubs ointment into her father's burnt palm.
  That "corrective" swara-sanchar is sung by VJ (just a short clip - Ga Ma, Ga Ma Dha Ma, Ga Ma, Ga Ma Ni Dha Ma Dha...so it goes). The lost-in-reverie one is by SJ. I wonder why KVM chose VJ to sing that small, corrective piece, given that the songs for the women (Manju Bhargavi/Rajalakshmi) were sung by SJ. I personally think there is more to it than just a switching of playback artistes. Listen to that short VJ piece - it is on the audiotape. Then tell me if you think it is just one of the bazillion such songs you have heard before.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Dec 22 12:18:26 EST 2001
  
  Where are Neel D and Ramki? Away for the holidays??
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.80.84) on: Sat Dec 22 12:21:22 EST 2001
  
  naaz:
  
  I had listened to the complete audiotape of that movie..but I didnt find any such thing. Maybe its there in the movie and not in the audio-tape? anyway - i find it difficult to believe that SJ could not have done that ... esp if "charana kamal bandhe" is not by VJ but by SJ :-))
  
  About the "heaven-sent" ... thats subjective I think. PS and Lata have (rather had :-) thin,reedy,extremely sweet voices. VJs voice is stronger but not as sweet. So some people may have preference for PS and Lata. Yet others (like me and you) like both categories. One aspect which I find particluarly appealing in Lata's semiclassicals is that she sounds just as sweet in the most challenging classical song - like the taans in the beginning and end of "ghayal hirnaiyaan main ban ban dolun" ..... which more than make up for that histrionic and silly stammerring she was forced to do by SDB so that the song gelled with that preposterous scene in "munimji"), or in "aaja bhanwar sooni dagar" - as if she has not needed to put in any effort at all.
  
  But observer is trying to compare Hindustani songs to carnatic ones, and that is NO comparison.
  
  That reminds me - do tell us about VJs Hindustani classical songs - and by that I mean the real complex ones with fast paced taans. (maybe there would be some such in the birju maharaj album?) (either here or in that e-mail that u were to have sent me ;-)
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Dec 22 12:26:23 EST 2001
  
  AVR - I need an email addy to send you one (I did not receive your email, remember?)...The Birju Maharaj tape has a lot of Hindustani Taans/Alaaps.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.80.84) on: Sat Dec 22 12:26:34 EST 2001
  
  naaz:
  
  Though VJ can mimic a child's voice well (as in that Malayalam song which neel d had posted), I feel she was the wrong choice for a 10 year old boy in swathikiranam .... none of those songs sound like :kids-voice" to me. Even in shankara... I think twas SJ who sang the "sangeeta shikshanam" part, right?
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.80.84) on: Sat Dec 22 12:28:14 EST 2001
  
  Naaz:
  
  ajit_v_r@hotmail.com
  
  that email went to some other naaz,i think.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Dec 22 12:29:44 EST 2001
  
  Doesn't the VJ clip follow Samajavaragamana on your tape?? The same song - just a break - and then the corrective clip. Yes, SJ could have done it too. I was curious about the choice - and was not suggesting anything else.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.80.84) on: Sat Dec 22 12:32:56 EST 2001
  
  naaz - no
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Dec 22 12:38:08 EST 2001
  
  I think the songs worked in shankara. I have not seen Swatikiranam so cannot really say how I feel. It is true that VJ does not get "gimmicky" when she is singing for a child, the way SJ does (or is told to do by her MDs). Even Lata's "phulon ka taaron ka" and "yashomati maiyya se" (for the padmini kholapure version) were beautifully done - without any artificial touches and childish cliches.
  VJ's voice is just as sweet (and that depends on the ocatave of the song - she is usually given the higher ones because of her lung-power!!) you have listened to Megame and Yaarathu - yes?
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.205) on: Sat Dec 22 14:01:52 EST 2001
  
  Naaz, a "heaven sent" rendition is a personal opinion. A true personal opinion happens when the listener has relinquished tendencies to worship (that is generally done in web-sites dedicated to the artiste, where a 'voice tremble' due to ageing is interpreted as 'awesome vibrato' and followed by comments like 'voice shows no signs of ageing') the artiste in question. Agreed, when it comes to swara renditions, there cannot be opinions as such, probably just greater sensitivity, but that is something any (single-handed) keyboard player aquires (there quite a few expert KB players in this forum).
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Dec 23 00:28:37 EST 2001
  
  I fully agree. There are so many persoanl preferences and persuasions. But was I right in detecting a certain leaning towards a few specific singers in the other thread? You did paint VJ's capabilities/talent with a few broad strokes (bhajan singer, self-created aura/image, ordinary, etc.) Does subjectivity vacate these pronouncements? Can it?
  Yes, the whole she is does not sound her "age" or so and so is magnificent even in the sunset years...accolades of such a colour do betray a willing, self-induced delusion on the listener's part. Some well-known critics also indulge in such sycophancy - and leave one wondering. Interestingly, most of these age-specific "seventy going on twenty-seven..., gosh, she does not sound a day over 17" kind of remarks are (almost always) made about female playback singers. The males are somehow exempt from these effects of mortality. I'd like to know why this is so? Does this have to do with the "tonality" of indian music in general?
  Does every woman have to speak/sing in C minor, to be considered young, beautiful and - a woman?
  Lata's (even to this day) falsetto is a good example. Is it not an artifice? And an insufferable one with time...why is she still persuaded to do it? I am sure she herself knows how ridiculous the "lalalalala" sounds (eg. dil tho pagal hai) ? I feel a bit embarassed for her when she does that. More on the "timbre" of Lata/VJ voice in my next posting. It's getting late here. Time to call it a day.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.80.200) on: Sun Dec 23 00:47:32 EST 2001
  
  Naaz, Naaz, Naaz:
  
  What do u mean by Lata's falsetto *even* to this day? Lata is unbearable now, but if u have meant to say that she was always singing in falsetto, then I beg to differ. If u did not mean that, ignore what I said.
  
  About VJ having strength in her voice - yes. About her voice being sweet - like LM,PS - NO. VJ never had the thin,silken,thread-like voice of PS,LM. And I am not saying it was a drawback at all, but just that sweetness is an improper word to characterise VJs voice . Also I dont think that has anyhting to do with the octave in which u sing. PS and Lata both sound sweet in every octave and every note. (and convert everything to past tense when I am referring to both these ladies)
  
  In "yashomati", Lata has cleverly pronounced a "r" as a "l" giving it a childish touch. Another one is "tumhi ho mata pita tumhi ho". Asha was another great one to imitate the voice of a child - esp. in Marathi songs.
  I dont think VJ imitated a child's voice that well in any of the shankara... songs (but she did it very well in the Malayalam song with KJY that Neel had posted).
  
  I also think we (that includes me)are unnecessarily discussing about Lata here. This is a VJ thread.
  
  

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