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Compare and Contrast IR's musical style(s), especially with the BGM tracks, with those of composers of Hollywood

Topic started by Music_lover (@ 202.141.98.226) on Wed Apr 28 08:58:08 EDT 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Compare and Contrast IR's musical style(s), especially with the BGM tracks, with those of composers of Hollywood, viz., Maurice Jarre, Henri Mancini, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Bernstein, John Barry, Alan Sylvistri, Danny Elfman, Ennio Morricone, Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer, James Horner and so on

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 129.188.33.222) on: Fri May 14 00:18:33 EDT 2004
  
  Enakku uNmai puridhu vittadhu ... Im astounded. Gyan, after listening to Greenway in 'loop' mode a few times , I have to accept that it IS inspired by the Ilamai idho idhi intro ... Are you sure those voices are tamil?
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 136.182.2.221) on: Fri May 14 00:25:16 EDT 2004
  
  >>Sometimes the 4 or 5 minutes for a song is not enough for him...he probably needs to do 3 or 4 movements for a song.
  
  There are so many instrumental peices in many of IRs songs which I love a lot, and there are uncountable pieces which would be simpy fantastic if developed into lenghty themes - like the into of 'Nilavu Pattu' theme in Kannukkul nilavu or the violins in 'Andhi Mazhai' Pozhigiradhu ... One more addition to this list is the theme music of Rajaparvai ... the way the theme shifts from catnatic to western is simply brilliant ... Osho/Gyan can you give some insight into the 'transition' in the Rajaparvai theme? I love the way the song morphs into a polyphonic, harmony oriented western classical (jazzy?) from a very carnatic start!
  
  
• From: Vj (@ 203.196.170.98) on: Fri May 14 02:24:59 EDT 2004
  
  "Neelakkuyiley" song from Magudi... the 2nd interlude is simply out of the world with mixture of WCM violins with flute and veena in between.
  
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Fri May 14 02:47:16 EDT 2004
  
  Gyan ..astounding . I'm yet to hear the songs and i reserve my comments about the inspiration to my next post.
  
  I want to add up one more thing. Hear 6to60 varai title music (Starting 6 seconds or so) and Ilamai Idho Idho..(again starting 12 seconds) Guess what!, both have the same pattern. THe spacing for the percussion is the only difference. 6 to 60 varai was released in 1979!!!!. Thats what i call IR a genius.
  
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Fri May 14 05:44:32 EDT 2004
  
  Music_lover, The voices definitely sound like tamil. Good find buddy. Keep up the work.
  
  Srivatsan, the theme shift from carnatic to western is one thing IR has been doing pretty consistently well. One more song i remember is the "Poo Malarnthida" from Tick Tick Tick. Effortlessly sung by KJY and SPS. The first time any one hearing the track would be really bamboozled by the way the track moves from carnatic to western. A solo violin achieves the transition point and then gradually the guitar takes over. Absolutely brilliantly done.
  
  Another song i would like to put to the table is "Gana Shyama " from Kochu kochu santhosangal. You might have heard transition from classical and western themes i.e., after switching to either of them it sticks (at least for a prolonged period) with the theme. But this song breaks absolutely all norms. The percussion changes dynamically through out the entire length of the song. The pattern is complex and is a song that deserves more research :). For those who are yet to hear the malayalam song, please do. It’s one not to be missed.
  
  Here's the cool goose link : http://web.music.coolgoose.com/music/song.php?id=45610
  
  
  Have any one in holly wood achieved this kind of shift in themes so dynamically. They all need a prolonged platform to do the shift. Isn’t it?
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 129.188.33.222) on: Fri May 14 06:50:52 EDT 2004
  
  
  Osho,speaking about Tik Tik Tik reminds me of another groovy songs from the same film - 'Netru Indha Neram' ... fantastic start!
  
  The following link is to Guitar Prasanna's writeup in raajangahm.com ... each of the song he has mentioned is a real gem from a technical view ... I doubt if any other composer in IFM has been so versatile.
  
  http://www.raajangahm.com/guitarprasanna/index.html
  
  http://www.raajangahm.com/guitarprasanna/favo_songs.html
  
  Each one of the songs mentioned is simply great, and shows only the tip of a huge iceberg! I like the Kanavil Midhakkum from Eeral vizhi kaaviyangal a lot ... listen to the guitar! Edho Mogam from Koozhi koovudhu is also another great composition.
  
  It would be fantastic if someone knowledgeable here can 'research' into these songs in detail!
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 129.188.33.222) on: Fri May 14 07:01:22 EDT 2004
  
  Can someone upload the Megam kottatum song from Enakkul Oruvan?
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 129.188.33.222) on: Fri May 14 07:13:16 EDT 2004
  
  hey! I just rememebred! We havent discussed the violins Raakamma kaiya thattu from Thalapathy ... there is an excellent writeup about the use of the Fugue transformation in this song at: http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/rajaresearch5.htm
  
  
• From: k (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Fri May 14 16:46:30 EDT 2004
  
  Gyan, I cant seem to locate your latest upload on coolgoose.
  I dont know my Music_Lover thinks americans dont listen to indian film musicals. Last time (a few years back) I was renting indian videos in a shop in Berkeley, CA. There were 1 or 2 white Americans renting Indian movies. My understanding was they were doing some sort of research. It is quite possible Gavin Greenaway have been looking for 'exotic's samples to give a new touch to their music. I am pretty sure they were listening to indian/tamil music. THe voices surely sound tamil and in that likelihood, they must have been listening to IR.
  (Also, once we met a white guy in a Malaysian restaurant and we were saying what is this 'veLLaikkAran' doing here. He came to our table and asked in perfect colloquial tamil, ungalukku enna vEnum. Turns out he is researching the tamil of kudukuduppukkArans. In 1999, in Pondicherry, I and my wife, happened to help some young american women find an auto. They were researching tamil in Madurai Kamaraj university. They understood tamil very well but could speak only lightly. UC Berkeley has Center for South Asian Studies with a Tamil chair occupied by George Hart. Bay Area Forumers should know him and his wife Kousalya. Often seen in the Livermore or Concord temples).
  
  
• From: Gyan (@ 4.158.117.105) on: Sat May 15 01:42:55 EDT 2004
  
  hi k: sorry i pulled out the excerpts as I felt little crazy to keep it there. but pls check this out on amazon and grab it, it is difficult to find this CD anywhere, believe it or not.
  
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00001WRO3/qid=1084598037/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-1937101-1768117?v=glance&s=music
  
  (You can see from the reviews in th amazon.com, how much listeners are astounded by the music, which In My Intuitive Opion is nothing but IR' structure and ideas on a broader canvas for a huge production (study the logistics of that most fascinating parade which was made around that music, i belive. I happen to see it, and the parade is just out of this world, definitely the music did its job.
  
  it won't suprsie me to feel that the whole world must be secretly analyzing IR' works, ever since IR did the 1993 Symphony. i am only "inspired to speculate" as typically like most of HCIRFs.
  
  interesting info about Gavin Greenaway - he is a British Composer workin in Hollywood films, actually scored for Time Machine 2000 as well with Hans Zimmerman. You can find terrific IR style work there.
  
  I am saying, Greenaway must have heard about IR's Symphony in London. I believe the Millenium CD was recorded in RPO, London, but it was certainly in London!
  
  (Tapestry of Nations is the portion in that, has 2 sections, Orchestral that i Placed that are just incredible) rest of the songs are okay only, but worth getting the CD. I had bought it for $20 or something, it was not found anywhere at that time iin 2001!!!!! I just don't know why it is difficult to find it, as it is critically acclaimed.
  
  Comin to the point: The idiom is the key. There is really only a small main motif or theme, but very elaborately structured. It is a like WIDE SWEEP OF THE BRUSH, very very GRAND STROKES, meaning very big ambience provided by the background trumpets, wider scales, shifting scales, and just sweeping orchestral sounds. It is just incredible, can't find this in a hollywood film yet, except for the big epics like Ben-Hur, even that had a older idiom. Greenaways is much grander musical statements. AMazing. Its not like Star Wars or even Jurassic Park.
  
  Again, I am thinking it is a possibility that this CD has a big influence from IR' first Symphony, I am just guessing. You know why I am saying is, I have not heard from Hollywood such a WIDE SWEEPING "AUDITORY SPECTACLE" IN A KINDA MORE EXPANDING IDIOMATIC MUSICAL PHRASES. VSNarasimman was quoted as saying that when he heard the Symphony it was amazing and totally different. (I have the original Indian Express Newspaper clip of July 13, 1993!!!)
  
  I am developing huge expectation of IR's Symphonic works having tasted some new interlude concepts post 1993, which are mind boggling, spontaneous, natural and just if done in this Walt Disney scale, it will shake the foundations of the planet ;---)
  
  SSSA, please try to produce a copy of this for IR' amusement. IR will tell you how different it is from other Hollywood and how much Greenaway could've been inspired by IR.
  
  More later....
  
  
• From: Gyan (@ 4.158.117.105) on: Sat May 15 01:49:59 EDT 2004
  
  Srivatsan, Osho: yes, why I brought this comparison was I was just fascinated with the CD, obviously with the familiarity of those 2 compositions in that 5 or 7 track CD. When I first heard, I was just drawn to it like a magnet at the Parade, it sounded just too familiar, but I was also distracted by the fantastic fanstastic endless percussion floats and drummers sync and dresses... Soon, I found the CD (it is not sold widely, for some reason god knows just like IR' Symphony, held back - see the coincidence?!)
  
  anyway, the voices said:
  
  Summaa than ninnu kittu irundhen
  Yenna Pandrathu
  Sanyasa etc..... i couldn't pick out more as i my system is not good enuff.
  
  
• From: Gyan (@ 4.158.117.105) on: Sat May 15 01:59:59 EDT 2004
  
  SSSA, i just read your posting. Pls get the CD from amazon for the Maestro : if not, look for Walt Disney Millennium Celebration by Gavin Greenaway Tapestry of Nations is one of the main portions (23 min:55 secs) the Ilamai Idho intro to declare the Millennium(!!!!!!) is 9m:33secs long. Danny Elfman pales in comparison to Gavin Greenaway' WIDER, BROADER, EXPANSIVE, PACED OUT, WELL DRAWN OUT MUSICAL PHRASES. Even John Williams has something to learn from Greenaway, I think.
  
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00001WRO3/qid=1084598037/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-1937101-1768117?v=glance&s=music
  
  Good Luck in the meeting!
  
  

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