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MSV after IR's Entry vs IR after ARR's Entry

Topic started by sangeetha (@ 12.77.8.49) on Fri Mar 2 22:21:17 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Veteran MSV survived in the industry for quite a long time when comparing drastic downfall of Maestro, right after the ARR's entry. Why?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Kans (@ ) on: Sat Apr 26 07:22:51 EDT 2003
  
  Maybe attitudes has something to do with this.
  
  MSV has always been goody goody while IR made plenty of enemies.
  
  
• From: pennathur (@ 12.46.179.254) on: Fri May 2 14:42:24 EDT 2003
  
  IR in his heyday even after becoming a Ramana bhaktar was given to quite a bit of uppishness short of altaappu. MSV went into decline duing the 80s not only because of IR but also because of his own personal and economic mistakes. That is when he moved out of Santhome to Alwarpet against the wishes of the entire family - invested in a few movies all of which bombed especially Silk, Silk, Silk. However his children rallied around him and decided not to give up. The daughters set up their beauty parlours and in no time have set up a big chain all over Madras. The sons got in to the movies as Production Managers and have zoomed up in life now. MSV himself started to tour extensively freed of the burden of rigid recording schedules. It is at one such tour in Sri Lanka that an interesting thing happened. The evening before he left for Madras in Colombo; the waiters in the hotel brought a few plantation workers to him. They could not afford his concerts so they thought they would meet him at least. Out came the harmonium, and the entire orchestra and for the next three hours MSV laid out an entire concert before the motley crowd. MSV is a very large hearted person without a very good business sense but he has become smart now. IR initially began by trying to run the entire supply chain and even set up Echo records to distribute music. At his peak IR was composing for over 60-70 movies a year! And despite all we say this did go to his head to some extent. All movie hoardings and posters would feature his smiling visage on the top right corner; as if benignly looking over the movie! I found it unnecessary - why talk of virakti and on top of it agree to be portrayed as the moving force? Not many people remember the vaakkuvaadam between IR and Rajni when the latter said, "I don't know to compose music or to act. But I can tell you the latter is a lot more difficult" In one interview in Kumudam, IR said he wouldn't compose or play a concert for the TV since the recording quality is very poor, No one bought the argument as IR then usually refused to work at lower rates on TV. There is no harm in being like that - we are all natural. When MSV was asked on TV whether IR has unseated him; he said that we are all humans only God moves us around here and there! He was also lavish in his praise for IR as he has always been and greatly appreciated him for composing a symphony. When I met ARR in 1993 I asked him the same thing about him and IR - his reply was characteristic "God is great! I have a job and I will do it as best as I can. Beyond that it is upto God." While most composers openly express their praise of their colleagues; IR is an exception. On Rajhangham.com; in his list of 8 favourite songs you won't find a single KVM/TGL/GR/PS/VB/MSV-TKR/GKV song. Now as someone who grew up hearing all these songs I can't believe that none of this rich corpus of songs has had an effect on IR. IR has since then performed on stage with MSV-TKR and even Deva - he jointly composed Mella Thirandadu Kadavu with MSV. But why does he still ignore all this? ARR on the other hand continues to be modest and unstinting in his praise for his predecessors. Modesty I agree can sometimes become excessive when you don't take any credit at all for your achievements and success. However it wouldn't hurt if IR once in a while expressed his praise of other composers. For me IR is yet another phase in film music - even if we consider it the greatest phase ever I think it is over. ARR represents the latest phase and a very significant one at that. Since we all know how solid IR was in 1992; we must give full credit to ARR for breaking in like a storm on the scene just as IR did with Annakili 16 years earlier. ARR's musical abilities cannot be doubted. He is a very good musician and is used to the spontaneous performance style. His command over music theory is first rate and he can also do all the writing of notation you want! However he does not like to show off his virtuosity. When I waited to meet ARR that day in September 10 years ago Suresh PEters and Noel kept me company all the while rattling off numbers in different languages singing, seconds, thirds, fourths and fifths with a guitar. There is awesome amount of talent within these guys! No one stays around fr ten years in the most competitive muscical markets
  
  
• From: Music (@ 204.114.52.119) on: Fri May 2 16:30:11 EDT 2003
  
  Hi! Pennathur.
  
  IR praised MSV in many occasions. He has praised RD Burman, Salil Choudhry. In one of the interviews in kumudam, when asked about his favourite Male singers, he said Rafi,Yesudas and SPB. In the Recent program @ Dubai, he talked about "Paalirukkum Pazhamirukkum" song. On many Occasions he has praised Kannadhasan. If IR is not Praising ARR, may be he has not scored music to the level of IR's expectation. Before judging anyone please do some research.
  
  "Urichu paartha vengayathil ondrum irukkadhu,
  Ulari thiribavan vazhkayilae oru uruppadi thaeradhu"
  - Kannadhasan
  
  
• From: mythila (@ 137.237.13.20) on: Fri May 2 16:59:14 EDT 2003
  
  IR is definitely not PR-pro like the current crop of film industry people. His interviews don't make even an average reading material. As a music lover, I feel his work has spoken the last word.
  
  
• From: joe (@ 198.142.203.145) on: Sat May 3 05:55:05 EDT 2003
  
  ARR came from IR's music group. He got the experience from IR. Learnt a lot from IR.. but in one interview he told that he never listen to IR's songs. IR have never say such things to MSV. infact he worked together with MSV for some movies.. mela thiranthathu kathavu, engiruntho vanthan etc..
  
  
• From: lol (@ 198.142.203.145) on: Sat May 3 05:57:00 EDT 2003
  
  also unlike arr IR din change religion for money..
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.200) on: Sat May 3 06:25:47 EDT 2003
  
  dun give stupid religistic comments lol....
  
  
  please..open up ur mind...if u have one...for God's Sake...
  
  
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.200) on: Sat May 3 06:27:12 EDT 2003
  
  and dear joe...
  
  for ur info....IR never claimed that, unless u have read that interview from cheap magazine, which creates their own story.
  In fact, ARR said, IR is one of his fav MD.
  And he even presented both MSV and IR a gold ring in a public function.
  
  Get ur facts straight buddy.
  
  
• From: C~P (@ 202.9.149.153) on: Sat May 3 12:55:47 EDT 2003
  
  Paran,
  for 198.142.203.145 kannamoodindi adikkara first 3 letters than nick! :)
  
  
• From: Robin (@ 212.138.47.29) on: Sat May 3 15:17:41 EDT 2003
  
  After IR entry, MSV was not able to withstand. After ARR entry, ARR is not able to withstand. ARR is no where in Tamil Industry. His market is very low in TF at this moment. He has very few movies at hand and no body knows when it will be released. Moreover, he is giving continuous flops, after Tenali. Paarthalae Paravasam, Alli Arjuna, BABA, Kaathal Virus. I think the list will continue. But inspite of all competitions, IR only can give a hit like Kaasi, Azhagi, En Mana Vaanil, Ivan , Manesallam, Julie Ganapathy and Ramana.
  
  So don't ever try to compare IR with anybody. He is an exception in respects.
  
  
• From: joe (@ 198.142.206.2) on: Sun May 4 04:21:20 EDT 2003
  
  Paran,
  IR never claim that. but arr's interview is true. he told he never listen to IR's music. that is a fact. it was after the bombay release i think.
  
  
• From: Speaker (@ 203.126.142.232) on: Sun May 4 22:06:00 EDT 2003
  
  Robin, Classic comment.
  Its true that ARR mentioned (if AV/Kumudam a cheap magazine then no comments) that he never listens to IR siting the reason he never want to be influenced, even in Classical IR series in newtfmpage, this topic is being dicussed. After some years, ARR mentioned IR's Ingiedupazhagi is one "nice" song. We dont need any certificate from ARR about IR.
  
  
• From: Anbe sivam (@ 206.102.161.11) on: Mon May 5 14:53:57 EDT 2003
  
  Guys,
  
  Recently(four months ago), I read an interview with IR.
  
  Question was, what do you want to say about ARR music as a senior?
  
  Why do you ask? He is doing good. I am a fan of good things.
  
  
  Is this not praise enough or non of you in this forum do not read that.
  Is this not a
  
  
• From: Anbe sivam (@ 206.102.161.11) on: Mon May 5 14:57:42 EDT 2003
  
  Guys,
  
  Sorry for the incomplete sentence. Also when ARR came into Industry, there was question asked to him in one of the magazines.(Kumudam if I am correct).
  
  What is the best thing you like about IR?
  
  His reply was, he was punctual in time.(Nothing about IR's musical ability).
  
  So it is common for these people not to accept greatness of other competing musicians before they grow. Now that ARR has grown, he acknowledge genius of IR, where as initially he acknowledged only his punctuality. See!!
  
  Same is the case with IR. He did not acknowledge MSV, until he acclaimed the throne. Then he fell at his feet also.
  
  
• From: x (@ 209.47.143.226) on: Mon May 5 16:50:48 EDT 2003
  
  anbe sivam,
  
  "Same is the case with IR. He did not acknowledge MSV" --- this is NOT true. IR has been a big fan of MSV even before he came into TFM.
  
  
  
• From: pennathur (@ 12.46.179.254) on: Mon May 5 17:40:29 EDT 2003
  
  I am sorry to re-iterate the point. ARR has on innumerable occasions expressed unalloyed praise for IR - he counts him among his favorite composers; he has said how he admires the man's discipline (no intoxicants whatsoever and such divine music); he has said how he admires the man's aanmikam and aastikam; he has talked of his favorite IR numbers. In contrast IR has never talked of how it was to grow up on MSV/KVM/VK/VB/GKV/Naushad/SDB/LP/SJ songs - as all of us talk about every now and then. He has begun to do that only post-ARR not before. This is not to say that he hasn't maintained cordial relations with other composers - far from it - IR has always been a respectful and a deeply value driven person. It is just that accepting that others inspire us as Newton said "I have seen far by standing on the shoulders of giants," has not come easily to IR in the past. I have read his interviews in the pre-ARR days and never once have seen him praise other composers in those days. In fact even praising Kannadasan came hard to him - he for various reasons would talk a lot more about his elder brother the great Paavalar. IR in those days believed himself to be a radical trendsetter leading film-music into uncharted waters and with good reason thought himself to be unique. In an India Today interview in 1988 he spoke critically of the Music Academy artiste types (not without good reason in my opinion) and earned opprobium for his comments. In that interview he made it clear that while he was the latest composer in Indian FM; he was in a class apart from the rest. IR did often give us the impression that he is not only great but also thinks himself to be great!!! IR is a great composer - no doubt at all - but not the most modest composer for sure.
  
  
• From: pennathur (@ 12.46.179.254) on: Tue May 6 15:49:47 EDT 2003
  
  Incidentally around 1993 immediately after ARR's entry a comment was popularly attributed to IR - I haven't read it myself but have heard it from a number of his fans who were incensed by the apparent ease with which ARR had burst into the scene and in a matter of months scaled new heights. The comment is, "Whoever invented music is the cleverest person ever for having made fools of all of us - all of us churn out tunes with the same seven notes all the time." I can't imagine a deeply learned person like IR ever saying this as even a novice knows that the notes vary with each scale/raga which is how we derive 72 main and 100s of ancilliary scales! This indicates the cynicism with which IR fans began to view the music scene in those days. 1993-96 was a torrid time for IR fans as many directors switched sides and a new one like Shankar came up with a totally new music+movie formula. Whether we like it or not this was clearly a new age in film music not just in Tamil but all over India for better or worse (depending on whose fan you are). I remember visiting Delhi in early 1993(94?) in the fog of January and seeing shops stocked to the brim with "Roja - the Rose" CD/cassettes the Hindi dubbed version. I wondered whether these Hindiwallas would ever understand the lyricism and lilt of good TFM and whether the movie would ever succeed. I was wrong and how! The rest is history. HFM itself then was in the grip of sanitised melodies. With no authentic popular base (but with plenty of classical semi-classical and folk sources) HFM had been getting along thanks to good orchestration by Bombay's talented PArsi and Goan/East Indian musicians. Particularly the HFM composers got their violin section under control very well by the late 50s itself and thereon the same 3-4 conductors arranged the strings for all composers. Listen to LP, SDB, SJ, RDB, KA etc for the strings - and you will here the same style. This was the time when AR with his razor sharp arrangements burst on the scene - a few instruments played by 1st rate musicians, layered expertly produced a new sound that jolted HFM fans out of their stale and predictable chorus-violin-bongo/congo-dhlak combinations. So much so that wedding hall band level pseudocomposers like Nadeem and Anu Malik started trash-talking ARR. And in one interview Nadeem in a display of monumental ignorance (so characteristically) uttered the "same seven-notes-tomfoolery" statement. The closest that IR came to making any statement on ARR is the time he spoke of advising his sons to concentrate on music rather than gizmos. He may or may not have meant ARR in this connection. I think he did not mean ARR as the latter has always been profuse in his praise of IR. But several fans of IR took this to be a criticism of ARR and when IR returned the ring ARR presented him on behalf of the TF industry at some function in 2000 much was made of it. IR clarified his position stating that in keeping with his personal philosophy he eschews aadambaram and naturally any jewellery was out of the question. No insult was offered and none taken by ARR (who himself is a recluse of sorts).
  
  

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