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B G M - Eternal Myths!

Topic started by OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on Tue Aug 27 11:45:05 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Can any HCIRF please enlighten this poor soul?



1.How many movies have run simply because of IRs rerecording?
2.Has he managed any recognition at the state,national,Asian,international levels for his BGM ?
3.Has he won any awards (say like Filmfare,Zee ,IIFA etc ) for his BGM?( i hear Adhesh Srivatsava won a Filmfare or Zee award for his BGM in "Border")
4.Who would you rate as the other good BGM scorers at the national ,international levels? (apart from the staple answer "Nobody")-[This is just to determine where he stands vis-a-vis "Them"]
5.Why is he not getting offers to score BGM for Hollywood movies when his credentials are extraordinary as per your judgement?

6.Are there any awards instituted by our govenments for BGM ...like the ones for special effects,editing?If they exist has he won anything?If it does not why don tyou guys make a representation to the government?(But if the Governement accepts your representation and gives the award to some other MDs .....)

7.Mention some scenes wherein without his BGM the scene would have fallen flat pulling down the whole movie.

8.Are there any movies by other MDs in which the BGM was ...say..Ok!?
I shall request all non-IR fans not to post in this thread.Lets listen!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.56.81) on: Wed Sep 4 11:49:54 EDT 2002
  
  Normal man you are right. Certain things are deeper than Mariana Trench ... deepest place in pacific ocean.. Ideas will take time to reach there.. One such place is somebody's brain from this forum..
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.124.139.195) on: Wed Sep 4 13:27:49 EDT 2002
  
  SM Gavaskar - only Indian to score centuries on all Australian grounds.
  No of centuries : 34
  Top run-getter from Dec 83 to Mar 93
  Top Century maker since Dec 83
  No of 100s at Lords : 0
  
  SR Tendulkar - 1406 runs @ 54.07 v Aus, 6 100s
  148*(213b) @ Sydney and 114(161 b) at age 18 at Perth.
  No of centuries : 30
  No of centuries at Lords : 0
  
  Agarkar -
  Last 5 inn in Aus : 1,0,0,0,0,0
  No of 100s at Lords : 1
  
  SMG a MYTH? SRT a MYTH? AA a batting phenomenon?
  (Stats are thanks to TOI, which released a Tendulkar special today! :-)
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.124.139.195) on: Wed Sep 4 13:29:05 EDT 2002
  
  OISG:
  Loooong day at work :-) mail has to wait, catch u later..(listening to Thiruda Thiruda :)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Sep 4 14:01:49 EDT 2002
  
  OISG,
  I dont understand what your point is. IR is known for his BGM. There is not much awareness for this craft in our country. Also, BGM cannot stand by itself. It is not like songs that can be sold separately. BGM tracks are sold only in small numbers even in the west and that too with one or two songs. So for a BGM to be recognised, the movie has to be good. Even the movie should be structured accordingly. Get a Gladiator DVD and watch the bonus material on how they do the BGM in Hollywood. The whole movies is divided into chapters, each having a theme. Nobody does screenplay like that in India. Only Kamal did that in HeyRam and IR was all praise for him for this. This provides a good canvas for him to do his role. I still feel, Kamal, did not allow for good scope for BGM. In Jurassic Park, for eg, there is a shot of the vast ocean and the helicopter descending against the waterfalls, these are all good situations for BGM, but our movies do not have much. Actually, grandeur is not something, our guys are able picturise. I think inspite of using a helicopter, MR only did a so-so job in KM. (and BTW, Gladiator tracks sound like Last of the mohicans to me !!)
  I am sure you have watched enough Hollywood films, now compare them from memory to Lajja BGM tracks in raaja.com. You dont need a third-party validation of this well-known strength of IR. JOhn Williams mentioned that big-screen grandeur can only be enhanced by an orchestral score. And there is NOBODY in India who can do this as good as IR.
  
  
• From: !@$ (@ 199.50.29.40) on: Wed Sep 4 14:39:57 EDT 2002
  
  kiru :
  
  sevidan kAdhil sangi oothAdhe.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Wed Sep 4 18:01:50 EDT 2002
  
  Sangu is not enough. please blast an atom bomb.
  
  
• From: Vj (@ 61.11.81.166) on: Thu Sep 5 00:56:43 EDT 2002
  
  IR is nobody to me.. i need not 'vakkalathu vaangify' for him or ARR or whatever... but if a person's talent is going unnoticed, i think ppl shd appreciate things that the talented person does, than say "namma oorla evanaavadhu pannaanaa? madhikkaraanaa?.. ivan enna perisa kizhikkaraan" kinda stuff.
  
  The best thing about criticism is anyone can do it without knowing 1% of the subject thats being criticized.
  
  NOM meant to anyone,though.
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Thu Sep 5 01:07:57 EDT 2002
  
  Kiru
  
  Thanks.Precisely you have made a point.
  
  <>.That is what i have been saying all along.A mere BGM score cannot make "Karagattakkaran" a "Gladiator" or any other internationally acclaimed movie.
  
  I have not watched many hollywood films.But whateve little i watched i am able to understand that how a decent BGM can elevate a scene.I have not seen that happening in Tamil films.REally arguments like 815 movies ran for their BGM alone sounds silly.To say IR is good at BGM in the Indian level the HCIRF write off everybody else.Here only i was asking for credentials of their argument.
  
  Well ..if a mere different opinion can make a Swamiji turn a Oppenheimer i know how strong the arguments are.God bless them!
  
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Thu Sep 5 01:19:10 EDT 2002
  
  <>
  
  That was the Kiru s statement i took.
  
  
• From: hi (@ 212.72.11.66) on: Thu Sep 5 02:32:07 EDT 2002
  
  hi
  
  
• From: Vj (@ 61.11.76.217) on: Thu Sep 5 05:23:31 EDT 2002
  
  hi everyone, am not a HCIRF or a HCxxF or anyone... just a simple music fan of good songs and good BGs. i care a damn if someone has something against IR or ARR or whatever. but i still try to put some points as a general fan and a music lover.
  
  hope am worth my cents and the time to go thru my posting.
  
  1.How many movies have run simply because of IRs rerecording?
  
  a movie runs for various factors. as far as the MD is concerned, its only the songs that matter. BGM is a neglected area. IR has done and is still doing a thankless job. to say that 815 movies ran just 'coz of his BGM is a good joke. but there is no doubt that in atleast 200 of his movies, he has created a class for himself in re-recording. its only 'coz of him that we hv been noticing that there is something called BGM in a movie, with all respect to the MDs before IR. though there was keyboard about 15 years ago we still credit ARR for using it EXTENSIVELY. same way, though MDs hv done BGMs, anyone in the tamil film industry will give credit to IR for BGM. If a Vj or someone says "NO", it doesnt stop that fact, period. if the storyline is good, not a run-of-the-mill stuff (like usual love stories, revenge stuffs etc etc), any MD would love to score a good BGM (which involves silence too)... and IR is damn good at that.
  
  2.Has he managed any recognition at the state,national,Asian,international levels for his BGM ?
  
  frankly, he hasnt got the recognition which is over-due for him but that doesnt mean that he aint good at BGM. recognition is everything for any artiste in any field. if someone doesnt believe in something, it doesnt mean that it doesnt exist. he has got talent and if he is not recognized for that, doesnt mean that he doesnt hv talent. there are many stories how MDs from north appreciated IR for his scores. for all the good work he has done, he deserves more credit and more recognition. no single doubt about that.
  
  3.Has he won any awards (say like Filmfare,Zee ,IIFA etc ) for his BGM?( i hear Adhesh Srivatsava won a Filmfare or Zee award for his BGM in "Border")
  
  as already noted and as everyone knows, there are not much special awards for BGM in india. but i believe almost every award for MDs are given for good music in a movie (which includes songs and obviously BGM 'coz most MDs do both). If IR wins a national award for a SindhuBhairavi, thats not only for songs but also for the BGM. that goes for any MD. (again, there may be exceptions but we're talking only of IR.). there are lot other movies which might not have won awards but the BGM would hv been damn good. this stands for any MD, again.
  
  
  4.Who would you rate as the other good BGM scorers at the national ,international levels? (apart from the staple answer "Nobody")-[This is just to determine where he stands vis-a-vis "Them"]
  
  though i would never quote "IR is god, IR is the best in the world in BGM or anything, IR is blah blah " etc etc, i would like to note that we can be proud that IR can stand tall for some of his BGMs (and not all, due to various factors like bad storyline, same love stories etc etc). we hv a composer who came from a rural background but has not only mastered our Tamil folk music and carnatic music but also the internationally acclaimed Western Classical Music. NO ONE IN THIS WORLD CAN BE BEST OR PERFECT. you cant ignore a John williams or jerry goldsmith when u speak of hollywoowd movies. speaking of india, sandeep chowtha, ARR (to a certain extent), Mahesh ( of aalavandhan/kurudhipunal), deva ( to a certain extent), RDBurman. i hv named just a few for the purpose of cutting short.
  
  
  5.Why is he not getting offers to score BGM for Hollywood movies when his credentials are extraordinary as per your judgement?
  
  until and unless IR or his PRO reveals whether he got any offers or not, no one knows the truth.
  a Shivaji or a Kamal or an Ashok kumar or anyone concerned with film industry need not have hollywood as a scale to rate their performance. at the same time, if someone other than these gets an offer, doesnt mean that that person's performance was a lot better than the named ones. "You got a chance.. i didnt". its as simple as that. why and how is entirely a different story.
  
  6.Are there any awards instituted by our govenments for BGM ...like the ones for special effects,editing?If they exist has he won anything?If it does not why don tyou guys make a representation to the government?(But if the Governement accepts your representation and gives the award to some other MDs .....)
  
  Is it IR's fault that there are no awards for BGM? Even in a situation that there are no awards for BGM, dont u feel that IR still churns out good BGMs thanklessly? if the situation in the film demands it,IR never lets down to give a good BGM. sadly, not many of the MDs have completely mastered the art. "if govt gives award to another MD..." silly to answer hypothetical questions but if the MD for the award is worth it, let him get it. afterall, he did a good work and he deserves the award.
  
  7.Mention some scenes wherein without his BGM the scene would have fallen flat pulling down the whole movie.
  
  Mullum malarum climax scene.
  Uthiri pookkal
  Mouna Ragam
  Anjali
  Idhayathai Thirudaadhey
  
  i hv named just a handful of movies when u wanted 'scenes' 'coz u cant separate the BGMs from the scenes. they are so interwoven. "pulling down a whole movie" would be an exaggeration. IR gave mindblowing BGMs in those movies, period. that 'would they have been better if scored by another MD' is another question. the matter of enjoying a song or a BGM is entirely personal and differs from person to person. I enjoyed them. If you dont, its ur personal opinion and i am nobody to stand against that.
  
  
  8.Are there any movies by other MDs in which the BGM was ...say..Ok!?
  
  as previously said, mahesh did a tremendous job in aalavandhaan and kuruthipunal... deva did some good scores in vaali, aasai... rdburman in innumerable movies like 1942 a love story... sandeep chowtha in asoka, company... ARR in Lagaan, Roja....
  
  the above scores are not 'just ok' but damn good ones. again, i've named a few to cut short.
  
  hope i havent offended anyone. if OISG or anyone still opines that "IR's BG is good is a myth", let them have the right to think so, the same way the ppl who think "IR's BG is good", period.
  
  an IR or ARR or whatever doesnt attain or lose greatness just 'coz some of the fans say so.
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Thu Sep 5 06:27:12 EDT 2002
  
  Vj
  
  Namaskaram.So it takes a genuine music fan,who acknowledges other MDs good work too, to come with rational & reasonable answers.I hereby unconditionally accept that i have got the answers.
  
  Hope the HCIRF agrees with you and forgives you for using superlatives on Deva,Mahesh,RDB.
  
  
  

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