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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: isaimannan (@ 202.9.167.87) on: Mon Sep 29 01:28:45 EDT 2003
  
  This is how I would rate IR and ARR as musicians.
  .
  IR: As composer 100 out of 100, as singer minus 30 (-30) out of 100 (how anybody can bear such terrible, unmodulated voice, and incredibly badsinging?). The TOTAL of the above comes to 70 out of 100.
  .
  ARR: As composer 75 out of 100. As singer minus 10 (-10) out of 100 (a very unremarkable, flat voice;hope he kept out of singing. TOTAL score 65.
  .
  IR is unbeatable as a creator of music. ARR passes. It would be bliss if IR did'nt sing. But how will we live down his existing songs (songs?).
  .
  there.
  isaimannan
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Mon Sep 29 02:04:35 EDT 2003
  
  People say IR has a bad voice.
  
  I would contest that and say he might not have an appealing glamorous voice, but his voice has an element of rustic honesty in it which is aptly brought out with great effectiveness when he sings.
  
  Take for ex: "engey sellum intha pathai". Though IR's voice might be less appealing the pathos of the song is very well brought out by IR as he conveys the longing for the answers to the questions asked in the song's lyrics.
  
  I disagree IR is a bad-singer. He is very good, but sometimes the shruthis pisurify.
  
  ARR, I dont know if his voice has a dynamic range but he certainly blows my adremaline every time I hear him sing. There is something abt his voice that I adore may be the personality behind it. But every time I hear him sing I get very very excited.
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.128.54) on: Mon Sep 29 02:50:06 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  
  IMO no body can be a theist and nobody can be an atheist either. MR said that he doesnt belive in god in a suntv interview.
  
  Regarding the voice i dont find any minus point in IR. people who condemn him having a bad voice shud listen to his ramana maalai and geethanjali.
  jus listen to his 'bitchai paathiram yaenthi vanthen' or 'kaamakshi kaarunaa vilasini' or 'janani janani' or many of the pathos songs he has sung in films. while ARRs voice is very good in reaching high pitches. IRs is well suited for base.
  
  
• From: Speaker (@ 203.126.142.232) on: Mon Sep 29 04:37:57 EDT 2003
  
  RS, Beg to differ. Though Ramanamalai is his own dedication to Ramanar, so he wanted to sing. No probs. But songs could have reached better spiritual level had better singers been selected. Karanam enRi kanneer varum is one piece IR would suit the most in that album.Others, I love IR so I accept it.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 12.210.95.2) on: Mon Sep 29 10:38:38 EDT 2003
  
  IR is a very versatile classical singer. This fact has been verified by semmangudi iyer who had asked IR to sing some classical ragas and he rendered them perfectly. I believe it requires certain amount of carnatic knowledge to understand some of his songs as they might be purely classical. Anyway his voice has such a emotional effect, I could not imagine many soulful songs without his voice. If we listen to many of the classical singers we may find similar singers whose voice may not be "pop" type, but you will appreciate their singing if you have some carnatic knowledge.
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Mon Sep 29 10:47:24 EDT 2003
  
  "IR is a very versatile classical singer."
  
  Jag
  I kind-a dont agree to it.. when KJY is still gotten much criticism.. after so many years in the carnatic field.
  
  But surely agree to his ability to make classical song sound simple, with adherence to the raaga.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 12.210.95.2) on: Mon Sep 29 12:28:04 EDT 2003
  
  Speaker,
  I think the point I made was with respect to IR's ability to render perfect classical raagas. Whether we like his voice or not is an individual opinion. Versatility as applied here means the perfect skill and total mastery over the said art i.e. classical singing.
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.234.222) on: Mon Sep 29 23:57:51 EDT 2003
  
  IMO , IR is the university topper in Tamilnadu and cannot even get through foreign university admissions whereas ARR is a very brilliant student in TN university and also has scored distinction marks in Mumbai,London,Shangai universities........
  
  again it is in my opinion.....IMO.......
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.132.165) on: Tue Sep 30 00:03:14 EDT 2003
  
  this is not my opinion but a fact,
  
  that IR passed out with a gold medal and honors frm trinity college of music, london. while ARR jus passed out frm the same college.
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ 203.117.10.18) on: Tue Sep 30 00:08:24 EDT 2003
  
  MADDY, IMO too u can thukki podduran ur opinion into the kuppai :)
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Tue Sep 30 00:17:35 EDT 2003
  
  I think IR passed the guitar exams.
  
  ARR took the piano exams and cleared ten levels.
  
  Even Karthik Raja has passed 8 levels I think. But whats the use, thambi Yuvan has overtaken him in all aspects now w/out any major levels. Yuvan is really prolific and one hell of an MD!
  
  I just heard the Kadhal Konden Bonus songs. Wow, what a mind-blowing effort to spruce up the BGM themes in the last minute to include in the cassettes as bonus songs!!!
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Tue Sep 30 00:21:48 EDT 2003
  
  Jag,
  
  did IR have a professional classical tutor? I remember gangai amaran saying in one function early back that they were slowly picking up the nuances of carnatic music.
  
  I know that ARR had some tutoring in Hindustani. Even though he knew his hindustani music very well, he insisted on having a tutor so that he could get the perfection. This was during Taal days and ARR's adamant attitude to perfect hindustani was mentioned by someone..(Subash Ghai? or RK Santoshi?)
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 12.210.95.2) on: Tue Sep 30 08:42:39 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  I think IR had learnt carnatic music from many people, prominently from Srinivas Semmangudi Iyer.
  I believe he was closely associated with TVG too.
  Most MDs in the olden days were quite familiar with classical music and I think IR had worked with many.
  
  IR passed guitar and piano with honors. He was gold medalist in western classical.
  
  
• From: Solo (@ 210.210.32.220) on: Tue Sep 30 09:39:57 EDT 2003
  
  I wud like to narrate an incident told by a senior collegue of mine. Hope it will be interesting to u all.
  "When my collegue was studying Engr @ Thyagarajar College, Madurai during 1962-66, 3 young boys with some musical instruments, once approached him to accomodate them in the hostel for the night stay. When refused, one of them challenged to make the hostel inmates happy thru out the night, if allowed to stay. They were allowed to stay in the Canteen. The young boys started playing beatiful indian old film classics. On a query from one of the hostel mate as to whether the boys can play Western Classics, the others had laughed and commented how can one expect western from these poor village guys. Immediately one of the boy, name Rassayya came forward and had expressed his liking towards western classicals and had even started playing music from 'BACH', 'Beethovan' and many others songs of those times - to their great surprise.
  Their visit and music had become a regular feature between 1962-66."
  Later my collegue had come to know that the boy was IR, when Annakkili got released.
  The incident is quite interesting and also raises a question how a young boy, acquire the knowledge of Western Classical in his undeveloped village environment.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 12.210.95.2) on: Tue Sep 30 10:02:15 EDT 2003
  
  Solo,
  Great piece man. Its really heartening to read the beginnings of a legend. Thanks a heap. IR would be 22-23 years then. The knowledge he had at that time is fantastic. It shows how a true artist can be an exponent of his art right from a young age.
  
  
• From: Anbe sivam (@ 206.102.161.11) on: Tue Sep 30 10:30:30 EDT 2003
  
  Jag,
  
  What was the university in US which offered honorary doctorate for IR? They asked IR that somebody should speak for IR and IR asked Kamal to speak?
  
  Kamal was first telling IR that the University could not be reputed but later realized it was a decent university? I don't remember full of it.
  
  If it is true, then IR has a doctorate from US university.(hopefully a decent one)
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Tue Sep 30 11:43:43 EDT 2003
  
  All degrees and titles are just another addition to the gr8 in paper, but the actual fact is the genius reflected in so many songs/bgms and so many hearts that beat in unison with HIS MUSIC..
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.128.54) on: Tue Sep 30 13:26:32 EDT 2003
  
  Solo,
  
  great post.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 12.210.95.2) on: Tue Sep 30 14:47:16 EDT 2003
  
  Anbe sivam,
  It was a cultural doctorate given at Arizona. According to RaajanGAHM, it is World University Round Table, which sounds like a cultural conference held at a university. Anyway he has a Doctorate of Philosophy in Music (the only Film MD?) from Annamalai University, which entitles him to being called, Dr.Ilaiyaraaja.
  
  MIL
  My sentiments exactly!
  
  
• From: agneyen (@ 209.48.32.2) on: Tue Sep 30 16:35:42 EDT 2003
  
  just side note :
  Indian classical system has wide tonal relationship as well as melody and rhythmic progression. To grasp totality of such a system takes years of study and practice. Indian classical artist has more freedom and greater scope for improvisation. That’s the reason
  Why it’s easier to fuse western into our classical system than vice versa. We can taken any natural sound like bird, breeze and mix it into raga and there goes the song. Artist like arr,ir take full benefit such a variety. arr explores more in irish , Italian or gypsy music while ir goes for european classical that’s the only difference.
  And one who knows Indian classical, any western music fades in comparison when it’s time to learn. After all ours started thousands of years before any one could write a single verse elsewhere.
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.234.71) on: Tue Sep 30 23:57:27 EDT 2003
  
  i never feel any diff. in sound when i listen to IR's songs when heard in my Philips system and in my Grand dad's transistor........he gives very less importance to recording bcos he doesent care abt. ppl. listening to it........
  
  

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