Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Western & Indian

Topic started by Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on Thu Aug 23 17:21:47 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have seen the following comments a lot of times in this DF.

"the instruments used are western" .... "This song is like "western music" " etc..

I want to know, what is the definition of tamil sounding music and what are tamil instruments? I asked this question to a well know lyricist and he asked me to look up "silapathigaram" for the answer. I dont think he was trying to answer my question.

Among the instruments that have been used in the last 4 decades by tfm MD's I think a majority of instruments were western.

So what is the subtelity that classifies music as "western" and "Indian"? Is it the instruments being used or the carnautic/tamil folk touch the song gets?

for e.g I wud say guitar, violin, flute, drums etc as western instruments and tabala as Indian (although i dunno if its tamilian) ------ to shatter some myths about the western/indian definitions.

so as an educative purpose it would be nice if people gave an account of how much tamilian has tfm been for the past 3-4 decades. and shed some light on what attribute classifies a musical score as tamilian/western.

I am more interested in tamilain than Indian.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.128.128) on: Thu Aug 30 17:53:27 EDT 2001
  
  contd...
  
  Over a period of time, a MD’s music does tend to have some repetitions and may start sounding the same. The same had happened to IR. The same is being alleged of ARR now-a-days. From the time one gets a break, makes a mark for himself, creates a style of his own, does some great work, is listened to by a large audience and starts sounding repetitive, it is usally some years. Look at MR (music lendhu filmsku poitten!!). There are some similarities even in his films – one slow-motion or/and background song, one important rain song or a scene, those usual pauses between dialogues, one hospital scene,
  mention about a field of study (MBA, police, medicine, civil engineering, IAS, cryptology, journalist/reporter, politics, law). This, in spite of taking his own time in making a movie. While that is what adds up to his style, it may also become a negative. While these are there, there are also certain things that are new/fresh in his movies. He is only trying to improve by working on his limitations. In the same way, IR and ARR are trying to overcome their shortcomings and be different and creative in their own way. ARR and most of the other MDs too are having a more western influence. The more we listen to western sounds and promote them, the more they’ll become part of our lives. While everybody is following the West, IR is still sounding more Indian which is something unusual now.
  
  Also, realize that enjoying more of western music, going to parties and gyrating to the beats, basically, living the “fast life” will in no way help safeguard our cultural interests. Movies have the largest reach in India. So, whatever is promoted in movies in majority, will reach a wide audience and have a tremendous impact on their minds and change their tastes, and possibly, their way of life. That is what has happened. To quote Shri. Madurai G.S. Mani Iyer (coutesy: rf’s posting in another thread):
  
  ‘My sadness is that classical is gone now, and we are denying it to the people. There was a question that someone in the audience asked in a panel discussion on this topic I participated in once. He said " I don't know everything about music, and if I ask for poison will you give it to me?"
  
  That is what we are doing now. Giving them poison saying that they want it.’
  
  While one cannot forget the fact that change is the only constant thing, should one encourage a change that is going to ruin us, in this case, OUR music? I feel that the MDs are primarily responsible for such a change because, as creators of music, until and unless they come out with such stuff we would not get to hear them. But then, as part of being innovative/experimentative, they may occasionally come out with such numbers. Also, one should remember that film industry primarily provides entertainment spending crores of money. So, they will obviously look for returns without which they cannot survive. This causes lots of pressure on the key players and not everyone can sustain that. No MD can give his 100% all the time. Therefore, such a change is fine as long as it does not turn into a trend or endangers our cultural interests. If we are encouraging such a trend, then it is us, the public, to be blamed. People who know about mind and patterns will understand this better. In such a case, we are causing a cultural invasion to take place. We had invited it and we solely are responsible for the sorry state of affairs. The problem is, we don’t feel sorry about it because we have taken a liking to it. Cultural invasion is like a slow poison. While it takes sometime for it to really reach a stage were in it can cause severe harm, once reached, there is seldom anything that could undo the consequences.
  
  One should be able to exercise enough self-control to stop such a thing from happening. Self-control is often a term that is not given its due attention. The more you can achieve it, the more control you have over your life. And for that one needs to be disciplined. What we lack today is exactly that. While we don’t hesitate to spend money to get immediate and short-lived pleasures by watching cheap movies or listening and dancing to mundane music, we do hesitate to spend and attend carnatic concerts and our other cultural activities and fail to encourage the artists. Kaizhdha maadhiri valarndhaavtu carnatic concert yenna vendi kadakku namkku!!!:-) Discipline requires us to follow certain good things very strictly, whereas, the general public needs exactly the opposite. At a time when a person is supposed to be offering Sandhya Vandanam, he is busy in some poorly lit room dancing with people whom he doesn’t know, to some sound that is loud but not clear. While the former gives you internal peace and purifies the mind, the later gives you more freedom, disturbs and corrupts your mind and lures you to do immoral things. This being the case, we are sure to be doomed. I have noticed that listening to western music, going to clubs and discos and developing a distaste towards Indian music by many, especially youngsters, had started only after early 90s.
  
  Believe me, only religiously inclined people are more disciplined. It takes lots of hard work and perseverance to be disciplined. This is another reason why I like IR. When it comes to work, he is very disciplined. Even the greats from North India have been stunned by his work discipline. ARR too acknowledges that he learnt this all too important quality from IR because he knows what a world of difference it makes to him. Also, if you notice, ALL THE GREATS IN MUSIC FROM INDIA ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SOME SORT OF RELIGIOUS INCLINATION. It is evident that this RELIGIOUS INCLINATION WILL MAKE YOU CARE FOR YOUR CULTURE. It is quiet obvious that one cannot take to others’ culture and expect his to flourish.
  
  Therefore, the only help TFM can do is to start sounding more Indian. I am glad IR is working in this direction. He may not become a huge hit anymore but by simply not taking to the west like others, he is doing an excellent job. When it comes to variety, he is unmatchable. I can see that he is offering something new in his recent releases. However, he can probably work on making those differences come out more effectively to be better appreciated (easily said!!) Even a simple song like Maamaraththula Oonjal Kattanum has many subtle new things to offer. Other MDs should also change for good. ARR is the most important among the rest because he is the most sought after now and has a wider audience. ARR is also knowledgeable and is quiet innovative, but, he should start sounding more Indian. Others can contribute their share by following the examples set by them. Anybody better is always a welcome!!!
  
  If at all one was wondering what all this has to do with the title of this thread, then all that I have to say is that when we are discussing Western and Indian we are basically discussing about 2 different cultures.
  
  Bottomline : One should not encourage anything that endangers one’s culture. While one can work towards getting global recognition, it would be encouraging if that has got to do with taking our culture to them. Atleast, it should not cause any harm to ours.
  
  i.e., if at all one cares enough…:-)
  
  Hmm…too many Is I guess. Yenaku ice vekka theriyaadhu:-) . With this i rest. Over to the experts!!
  
  PS: Read J as :-)
  
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Fri Aug 31 01:31:37 EDT 2001
  
  CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP
  
  KS,
  
  Unmayilaeyae arumayaana article. noothukku nooru neenga sonnadha naanum ninaichaen, ninaikiraen, virumbugiraen, aamodhikkiraen.
  
  yenadhu ulam kanindha NANDRI.
  
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Fri Aug 31 01:44:01 EDT 2001
  
  thangaLudaya article-ai padiththavudan yenakku oru kutti kadhai gnabagathukku varugiradhu.
  
  Oru miga arumayaana aatrangarayil naanal, thennai maram mattrum oru kattai kidandhadhaam. adhu veyyil kaalamaadhalaal avai moondrum "thaemae" yendru yendha prachchanai indri irundhana. mazhai kaalam vandhavudan andha aatril veLLa neer perukkaeduththu odiyadhu (neenga Madras-vaasiyaaga irundhaal idhu yeppadi saaththiyam yendru yennuveergaL, vaeru vazhi illai kaRpanai saeidhu koLLungaL). VeLLa neer karai purandapadiyaalum neer mattam miga adhigamaaga uyarndha padiyaalum neerin vaegaththaal mudhalil kattai adiththu chellappattadhu; pinbu miga adhigamaana paerukkaththaal thennai maramum peyarththu chellappattadhu aanal yevvaLavu veLLam vandhaalum naanal mattum miga adhigappadiyaaga vaLaindha pozhudhum, tharayodu tharayaaga amizhththappatta pozhudhum thannudaya vaerin pidimaanaththai adhu oru pozhudhu izhakkavillai.
  
  indha kaadhai pola naamum yendha oru maatrathirkkum naanal pol vazhaindhu kodukka theriyanum KATTAI pol andha mattraththaal adiththu sellum padiyaaga irukkakkoodadhu adhae naeraththil maatrathirkku anaavasyamaaga yedhirppu theriviththaalum(THENNAI POLA) andha maatraththaal vaerarukkappadum saathiyamum uLLadhu.
  
  aagavae naamum namadhu TFM-mum naanal pol adhavadhu thaangaL kooriyadhu pol pareeksharthamaana murayil maerkaththiya isaiyai avvappozhudhu yaetrukkoLvadhil thavaru illai. Aanaal thaangaL varththappaduvadhu pol naamum namadhu TFMmum aatrangarai KATTAIgaL pol uLLom. Yenna saeivadhu?
  
  
• From: Normal Man (@ 199.207.255.50) on: Fri Aug 31 02:29:04 EDT 2001
  
  KS --> Greatly appreciate the time and effort you had put on the excellent thoughts. The most important thing today's MD's shoulf do as a part of making the FM more Tamizh (hence Indian), use genuine and authentic Tamizh delivering singers.
  
  Tamizh is already bleeding to death in the hands of singers like Udit, Sukh, KK, Tipu.....I don't if they are trying to sound anglicized or they grew with Tanglish ( Tamil + English ). A latest horrible example would be the songs of 12B. The singers /MD have made sure that none one deciphers what the lyrics are.
  
  There are lot of good singers like Harish, Unni K, Harini who have a good renderation (even if not a perfect Shruthi).
  
  Coming to IR I think he is trying to set a new trend, style and sound. He's succeeded in defining the protocol on how to compose a BGM (sad that none to date has tried to come even close to that). I feel the trend should include respect for the language as well.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Fri Aug 31 10:22:35 EDT 2001
  
  
  very true very very true!
  
  excellent analysis. clear thought progress. cogent penning down of points. able to think at another persons level, a mark of a good writer.
  
  prioritizing sequence of points and not getting confused. ithukku mela vera enna venum! wonderful! a treat to read. I read every word of it.
  
  I infact took a print out and showed it to many of my friends!
  
  //"At a time when a person is supposed to be offering Sandhya Vandanam, he is busy in some poorly lit room dancing with people whom he doesn’t know, to some sound that is loud but not clear. "//
  
  wonderful! "naan kovil porathu illai" appadinnu perumai pattukaravanga evalavu peru irukaanga theriyuma!
  
  If i have to tuch the exact core point. Your illustration refers to people who simply HAVE to have fun. They have to confirm to the definition of "fun" and "coolness" for them to say, when the look back on life, that they had a fullfilling life.
  
  It is this "corrupted" "influenced" and "artificial" thought process that leads to this kind of a dance club attitude.
  
  worse is the way they look down on people who dont understand their life style.
  
  believe me In all the parties I have been most of them do it for a ritual , as a means to have fun, less people dance to the tune of music. they just dance to sweat. guys go live and dance because of girls (i guess most girls know it but pretend they dont!!!)
  
  somewhere along the line between 1980's and end of 90's our culture has been shot to hell!
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments