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DETERIORATING STNDS OF RERECORDING

Topic started by SUBHASREE THANIKACHALAM (@ 203.197.134.175) on Thu Sep 23 22:19:34 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

There is not afilm today withimpressive RR and the concept of theme music which was very popular during late seventies and through eighties,is only being misinterpreted.The feel required for an effective scene can be brought in only by RR and not by dialogues.Anybody who wishes to communicate with statistics in this regard,pls welcome.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Subhasree thanikachalam (@ 203.197.133.226) on: Wed Oct 20 12:32:52 EDT 1999
  
  Dear friends,
  thanks for coming out with wide approach in this topic.People who are just visitors of this particular page might think we all are biassed fans of IR.For their info, its not like that.As I am working on a few projects with Karthik Raja, Iam a frequent visitor to their house these days. I would like to tell you all very happily that Karthik is very melodiously musical and very much like his father, brings out new waves and trends in melodies.I happened to listen to his private compositions and frankly a few numbers are really amazing.If I am to recollect , I remember 'ULLASAM' had very good RR based on chorus violins and voice hummings.But he seems to be silent and subdued for his capablities and I wish his creativity is recognised in the right time and way.I mean, an awakening of real music loving tfm audience.
  
  
• From: pinchi srinivasan (@ ascella.anonymizer.com) on: Thu Oct 21 02:36:50 EDT 1999
  
  Dear BB or bb,
  the 5 points which you have put forward are not entirely true except for point 5 and there is lot of subjective feelings associated with RR or BGM
  1.There is no much innovativeness in RR, this may not be true at least with definitely IR and at least few more well known composers from Bengali/Hindi ( Saleel Chowdhury and Vanraj Bhatia), with IR there are easily quite a few movies he has done different from the conventional (standard Concepts) aptly suitable to the emotions associated with the sequences for EX: Sagara Sangamam, Swathi muthyam, Raja parvai to give a short list. Even the famous "mangalyum Thandunaane na" sequence for lot of wedding sequences /Husband-wife separation/adultery IR has used a great deal of variable RR different from the standard stuff.
  
  2.typecast instruments/tunes for certain situations :this is true , and perhaps very few even have attempted in changing them , (IR being one of them), obviously During Diwali you don't eat karumbu and pongal, or one doesn't fire crackers during pongal, so these are certain delicate/traditional ways of approaches towards expressing emotions in a silent way, and one will experience a big difference only when handled very carefully /experimentally ( Again IR has done some of them very neatly)
  3.IR did use lot of hit tunes in the BGM's in different paces and in different movies, but these ideas were adapted by some old timers also, like Shankar Jaikishan for Raj kapoor's movies,(May be they were not as successful as IR succeded)
  4.Lot of good movies do have great BGM (Here i am talking about only IR movies in tamil) and a good movie will be invariably become great movie by virtue of the additional effective BGM (Nayagan a great example....) A lot of un noticed movies would have had great impact by virtue of having had impressive BGM's especially by IR for ex: Vedam Pudhidhu of BR, Pudiya padhai (though this was a hit movie) of Partheeban,
  
  5.surprisingly the theme music of "punnagai Mannan" was well recieved by people as compared to many other theme musics what ever are available these days.
  
  ARR's BGM (IMO) in Iruvar was probably the best to date (even though this also has some usual screaming,), it is a shame that ARR is not scoring BGM's these days ,
  
  Just one question to Shibhu,
  If you were aware of the latest kannada movie of IR "Ithyartha" which had only BGM with no songs , a movie by Sunil kumar desai of NMH fame, though the film bombed i read the reviews about BGM in deccan herald paper was good, but if u or any one else have personal reviews please post them
  Good to see everybady again in this thread.
  
  Subhashri and others
  can you comment on YSR's RR/BGM's I have not seen any of his movies, but have lot of hopes in his tremendous potential in giving a mixture of IR/ARR combo type music
  
  
  pinchi
  
  
• From: bb (@ ts001d25.cha-il.concentric.net) on: Thu Oct 21 04:01:11 EDT 1999
  
  pinchi (if it is ur real name, pretty interesting that u chose to put it even though u come thru anonymizer:) ),
  in thamizh movies IR has done lots of variations in RR, i agree. even that leaves a lot to be desired. other MDs are so typecast in their BGMs that they aren't even worth mentioning.
  for 2, can u give some examples?
  about arr not scoring bgms, again, the incentive to do it is not there, as i said before.
  my fav. BGM of IR is in mogamuL. i am sure he has surpassed it in the new movie "mugam".
  i am also waiting to see when SAR will do the BGM + all songs of a movie with a single song repeating umpteen times:)
  
  
• From: bb (@ ts001d25.cha-il.concentric.net) on: Thu Oct 21 04:03:11 EDT 1999
  
  About 2: I think the situations in TF are so typecast that they deserve typecast music !!
  
  SRK:-))) typecast situations don't deserve good songs either:)
  
  
• From: pinchi srinivasan (@ sabik.anonymizer.com) on: Thu Oct 21 05:00:30 EDT 1999
  
  bb,
  My real name is pinchi, i just tried this anonymizer stuff as I came to know about using this only recently thro' my brother after wondering about it's use by lot of surfers in disguise,
  
  Examples to 2,
  1. Devar Magan quite a few sequences, Climax scene a scary fight sequence ending in a very pathetic and breathtaking thalai seeval of maayan...usual typecast music would have been a lot of violins, shehnayi and stuff, but listen to the chorus humming, mixed with solo drums yet delivering the necessary impact to audience especially expressing the guilt feeling of Sakthi vel for having killed maayan,
  
  the truth revelation about sakthi's marriage with panjavarnam, to Banu (), again though the instrument used is still violin, but the variblity gives the feeling of unexpected surprise, shock, followed by hatredness in banu on sakthi.
  
  I have not seen this movie of Rajanikanth by SP muthuraman, with Ambika and radha acting with Rajini (pattuvanna chelai kkari...song),but i remember reading about the BGM in that movie with so much difference even in the usual pathos situation, I am not saying IR never used standard typecast tunes but he did bring new ideas/concepts, sindhu bhiravi, sagara sangamam as i said earlier has some extra ordinary bgm's for the usual standard scenarios ..., I am not an expert, others in TFM can definitely contribute
  pinchi
  
  
• From: Ravi Ananthanarayan (@ 202.9.149.106) on: Thu Oct 21 09:50:15 EDT 1999
  
  Hello everybody,
  
  With IR in his BGM works, you will never know what he will do next. Just to give an example, Rajani film Panakkaran, there is a rape scene. That is Rajani is having a bet with his sister and goes underwater and she keeps counting and at that time the villai Charanraj takes her away and she starts running into the woods. What you have here is a beatiful bass flute with tablas and other light rhythm strokes. The music was really soul stirring. And the flute player for this BGM was Hariprasad Chaurasia. He happened to visit IR when he was working on this reel. Already he has written some thing else for this scene. But after seeing Chaurasia he changed his mind and completed all other pieces in this reel except this one leaving the orchestra and the other wondering. And in the afternoon when Chaurasia arrived at the studio, he took this reel again and recorded this piece.
  
  I will come back with more examples of IR's unconventional ways of doing the background scores.
  
  Please keep up the good discussions that is on.
  
  Ravi
  
  
  Ravi
  
  
• From: R Aananthanarayan (@ 202.9.148.166) on: Wed Oct 27 07:37:12 EDT 1999
  
  To understand the deteriorating standards in the RR in Tamil films today, we have to understand the economy of the industry and that would give you an idea.
  
  IR is the first MD in India who started taking the royalty from the music sales. He used to share some part of this with the producer but still he will retain the copyright for all the work he does in a film.
  
  When Deva came on the scene, he gave up every thing from day one. A scene where by a producer is able to get the music free and still make some money if he goes to some one other than IR. And IR took a long time to come to terms with the new situation in the industry. He was not able to accept the fact that he has to give up the rights to the producer. This delay on his part to accept the new reality forced a whole lot of producers to go away from him.
  
  Now the entire sum that comes from the sale of music rights to a music company goes to the producers. Even ARR charges a fat sum but this includes, his fee and all the expenses of music making like studio hire, singers, musicians' fees, etc. And the producer sells the audio rights for a still fat sum. ARR does not get any royalty or any share in this. Of course, this applies only to films with an all India appeal. Not for your local Karuthamma kind of films. Actually if you don't have an all India market film you can not afford ARR unless he reduces his fee. Still you have to consider the time you have to wait to get the music (during which time your financial interest meter will be running).
  
  Other music directors get paid a sum as their fee plus the music expenses borne by the producer. After two prolonged strikes and also due to the advent of satellite channels, the health of the industry is not that good. More over IR's music sale does not bring sufficient sum to justify his presence in the unit (purely from the economy angle). Because as of today other MDs music sell for a good sum.
  
  What does this mean? If I have a Deva or any one like SAR as my MD, then as producer I will be getting from the music sale much more than what I have spent on creating that music. So in essence the music becomes free and also on top of that I am getting some thing extra. So it is this economy that dictates selection of a MD for a new Tamil film.
  
  In the process, the quality of music or the capabilities of MD to add value to the film with a good RR are all the things compromised. Till this situation changes then the present state of mediocre MDs belting out songs that sells, irrespective of the fact whether they fit in the film or not. And giving an excuse for a Re-Recording. Who cares?
  
  So producers today go to some one like Deva or SAR not because they can give the best output. More than you and me they know that these chaps can not go any where near the quality bench marks set up by the great man sitting in a corner room in the Prasad Studio complex. Still they go to them because it makes business sense. I can right royally command what I want ("Don't bother too much man, IR has done such a song in such and such film, just give me that, that is enough, don't trouble your gray cells too much", I can tell this to my MD). On top of this, if I run short of money during the last stages of production and want to cut short my expenses, then I can tell a Deva or SAR that this is what I can afford, do not try and play around with a big string section, etc. and try and finish every thing with some electronics. Can I tell this to the great man? No I can not. Though I know as producer or director that IR can give a totally different outlook to my film with his RR, unfortunately the situation does not permit me to go to him. That is the fact of the day.
  
  So, the Devas and SARs of this world rule the TFM today even though no one is in any doubt about their creative abilities, least of all the producers/directors who employ them. Every thing is business. Mediocrity takes precedence over capability.
  
  But then capability after achieving so much why it still wastes its time in Kodambakkam is a topic for a separate discussion. Why it waited for the idiotic market forces to determine its future instead of it on its own throwing away this and moving on to higher planes-this is also for another discussion.
  
  
  
  RA
  
  
• From: Kirthi (@ 202.9.148.166) on: Wed Oct 27 08:03:37 EDT 1999
  
  RA,
  
  It was an excellent analysis from a totally different angle. Who are you and where are you? You seem to knowing a lot.
  
  Kirthi
  
  

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