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vm and tms win padmashree

Topic started by barani (@ 64.230.12.105) on Sat Jan 25 16:58:28 EST 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jan/25padma.htm

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: s0 (@ 63.246.174.208) on: Fri Jan 31 00:08:46 EST 2003
  
  forgot to mention: LP, thanks for the link. that was very interesting.
  
  
• From: Lollu Party (@ 61.6.38.132) on: Fri Jan 31 00:41:38 EST 2003
  
  You're welcome s0.
  In case bb comes and ask what has this got to do with TFM, we shall quickly quote the song Kaatruveliyidai kannamma from the movie Kappalottiya Thamizhan. :)
  
  
• From: isaiosai (@ 68.97.168.128) on: Fri Jan 31 01:05:31 EST 2003
  
  av,
  Good postings in a balanced and right spirit, inspite of unwarranted provocations:-( I'm sure everybody can see a balanced music fan in you than you know who. And there is no need to reiterate your regard for SI artists just because someone is trying to malign your image time and again by misinterpreting and getting personal. Moreso, when they haven't expressed atleast half the regard towards any similar NI artist. Height of IRONY is practising racism, but accusing you of it. The air of arrogance and hatred is very much present in his postings. Old habits die hard and looks like nothing much has changed for better:-)
  
  Case of an opportunist (not surprising he peeked into this thread and choose you:-)) making yet another pathetic attempt to get personal to spit venom and spread hatred in the air, spoiling the good spirited discussion you were trying to have with OISG (who, imo, got a little carried away in one of his initial postings), and falling flat on the face. However, it is good to see that he had learnt the hard way that one-upmanship is not a game he plays well...if you know what I mean:)
  
  Kudos to you av for being balanced, inspite of unwanted provocations.
  
  s0,
  How can there be hope when someone gets personal and doesn't discuss in the right spirit? Things were fine and looking good till AV gave a good spirited reply to OISG. And then, someone takes a peek and tries to fill the air with arrogance and hatred.
  
  
• From: Lollu Party (@ 61.6.38.132) on: Fri Jan 31 01:25:19 EST 2003
  
  Ding Ding Ding ROUND TWO
  
  or is it round three?
  geez, I am outta here
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.67) on: Fri Jan 31 02:22:00 EST 2003
  
  This thread is getting nowhere. Paavam TMS is again mired in a quagmire of venom, prejudices & feigned insults.
  From TMS & awards it has gone on to North-South, and now Av- Naaz. While I got a chuckle here and there and a few good lines much of what is being said is hot air.
  Av seems to take on all & sundry in a grand alliance against Naaz . I see Bush vs Sadaam here! I can have weapons of mass destruction but you dare not attitude.
  So let us all sum up in a few short sentences. What say you?
  
  
  
• From: Lollu Party (@ 61.6.38.132) on: Fri Jan 31 02:44:32 EST 2003
  
  What say I?
  
  I say that it is okay for Bush to have mass destruction weapons as Americans are much more responsible than the likes of Saddam.
  Not every man in a town can get to be sheriff my dear Vengaayam. Down, down with Saddam and push for Bush!
  
  
• From: Lollu Party (@ 61.6.38.132) on: Fri Jan 31 02:48:43 EST 2003
  
  ooops!
  
  When talking about Bush & Saddam I hereby solemnly and under oath wish to inform that I had no intention of comparing the above two jokers with the much respected Naaz and AV.
  If the both of them suspect as much, than I will be in deep sh*it what with their vocabularies, writing prowesses and all.
  
  Enakkku ethukku intha vambu. No towel no cloth, let me run.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Fri Jan 31 10:05:07 EST 2003
  
  Vengayam, Lollu Party -
  No offence taken.
  LP - the link from the Hindu was a find!
  Prabhu - the link to RBs "cricket" writings was informative. thanks.
  Vengayam - How astute! You zeroed in on Subhash K Jha's subjects without a prompt! Bravo!
  
  TMS had a song for Sivaji Ganesan in Rajapart Rangadurai...in which he played all the "martyred" freedom-fighters...Do you recall the film or the song?
  
  General Question: Tamizh films have always been branded as "melodramas" (this rubs off in film criticism on the actors as well) hence tamil folk are also described as being "loud and uncouth" by Indians from the North/West/East. Is this a stereotype, half-truth, or just another example of northerners "pigeon-holing" southerners? Is this an artifical "aesthetic" divide?
  And if so (or if not so,) what role does this play in the recogition of southern artistes/singers/etc?
  Any thoughts?
  
  
• From: p (@ 207.188.29.249) on: Fri Jan 31 17:22:17 EST 2003
  
  ---------------
  From: s0 (@ 63.246.174.208) on: Fri Jan 31 00:01:16 EST 2003
  
  
  more digression: (but it is more interesting isn't it??
  I have no intention to be a part of this acrimony nor do I want to belong to any coterie. I am neither knowledgeable (about RB, VJ, Lata ..) nor wise enough to take a stand or make a judgement either way.. I admire both your posts and look forward to more from you.
  
  on RB: I do know that he's (was?) the crossword setter for The Hindu. but, sorry Prabhu, I get almost exasperated
  reading through his articles that seem overwhelmingly sodden with superfluous verbosity, ostentatious pedantry & almost cloying wordplay (thanks naaz for the words. ungala madhiriye try panninen!) I prefer the simpler versions of the erstwhile ace R. Mohan & the present Nirmal Shekhar.
  end dig. (there seems to be no hope for this thread)
  
  From: Lollu Party (@ 61.6.38.132) on: Fri Jan 31 00:41:38 EST 2003
  
  You're welcome s0.
  In case bb comes and ask what has this got to do with TFM, we shall quickly quote the song Kaatruveliyidai kannamma from the movie
  
  -----------------
  s0
  no digression :)
  R.Mohan is related to TFM :))
  Singer Anuradha Sriram is daughter of R.Mohan.
  
  
• From: sarat (@ 128.192.5.157) on: Fri Jan 31 18:10:34 EST 2003
  
  i think Jats will win the 'loud and uncouth' competition hands down
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 163.181.250.2) on: Fri Jan 31 18:40:13 EST 2003
  
  p : ada! namma Anuradha Sriram R.Mohan ponnaa! enna oru connection!
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.67) on: Fri Jan 31 23:48:48 EST 2003
  
  Naaz,
  I think you are referring to " Inquilaab Zindabaad Hindustaan Zindabaad Barathame Ennarumai Baarathame"
  Re folk I'll come back later. I can only off the cuff say that the loudness was due to performing before huge audiences without mikes in the past. To reach the last person at the back and get him involved ( ok get him or her!)using your voice to good effect. this should be true for all folk forms be it laavani, Yaksha gaana or Jatra I hope.
  Lollu Party, Reg US being responsible Consider this
  1. they are the only nation to use nukes in war till now
  2. they were the first to use napalm( I am to lazy to check the spelling) and other nerve gases in Vietnam.
  responsible my foot.
  But again where does all this leave TMS . should he accept the award now.
  
  
• From: Are Yaar (@ 203.115.31.67) on: Sat Feb 1 00:01:00 EST 2003
  
  To speed up the process and to fulfil the pending list of elegible people, the Govt can give 2 to 3 award every year in DSP and other categories. To, remove any form of doubts from these awards, they should publically form a transparent, non political jury to decide on the awards...Only then there will be some credibility.
  
  After some years, SPB and others will also join the list and it will be the longest one. Govt should do some thing.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Sat Feb 1 00:29:14 EST 2003
  
  Vengayam -
  Thanks for the song reference. Yes, that is the song I had in mind but couldn't formulate the words.
  
  Theatre traditions anywhere in the world depend on the projection of the actors' voices ("throwing" is the common stage term in english) and that is case from Shakespeare to Koothu to Jatra. This is a prerequisite for anybody wanting to make a career on the stage.
  
  However, when NIs refer to SIs as "loud and uncouth" it is without context. My interpretation is that speakers of northern / western /eastern languages find all southern indian languages to be not only weird, but also imply that these "cultures" are over-the-top in decibel level. They find (another way of saying that Hindi or Bengali or whatever, is better) southerners to be unsubtle in both speech and articulation. Crude, is a word they have in mind. Grating might also work. All this is way beyond pejorative. It is essentially racist.
  
  About TMS: Not so long ago AB was awarded the Dhadha Saheb Palkhe Award for her contribution to music/film music. It was something she deserved and merited. This is what irks me: Is TMS's contribution to music/film music any less? Isn't he up there in the league of Rafi and Mukesh? Had the latter two been alive, do you really believe they would have been awarded just a padmashree? And would they have had to wait this long for such a minimal gesture and honour? I seriously doubt that.
  
  I have not doubt that TMS would acquiesce. If you ask me, turning down the trophy and saying thanks, but no thanks, would be a fitting way to address this insult. This will have a far-reaching impact in two significant ways: Firstly, it would make clear that southerners are not (completely) devoid of pride. And what's more, TMS will become the first person to go down in Indian history as an artiste who stood his ground: Sorry sir, the award is not commensurate with my achievements, give it to Saif Ali. Or just keep it.
  Now, wouldn't that be the best way for TMS to ensure that he is never forgotten, and do so by holding his songs and his head high?
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.67) on: Sat Feb 1 00:43:43 EST 2003
  
  There is a flip side to it. The award is given by the Government of India so is it fair to reject it. As a patriotic citizen I feel it is not the right thing to do.
  Also TMS wouldn't be the first to do so. Sitara Devi the danseuse I remember refused last year's Padma Bushan or vibushan stating that if Lata got a barath Ratna she too deserved nothing less. She might or might not be right but that act made her graceless. Same would be true for TMS.
  Reg the loudness part I think you are a bit over reacting. many of what you say may be implicit not explicit. For a common man from the cow belt to feel that way is understandable - same our villagers say that hindi is ajatka vandikkaran bashai - hai hai nnu kuthirai ottuvadhu pol. This can be ignored but if the literatti think the same unko moo thod jawaab denaa bhi humko aatha hai. get my point.
  As an aside isn't TMS's mother tongue the same as that of AV here!:-)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Sat Feb 1 01:20:26 EST 2003
  
  Vengayam -
  
  Let me see if I get this right: Are you saying that one should take the high road, even if that road leads down and not up? Patriotism is an emotion that can also be insidious in its abuse. When a Nation does not recognise the TRUE value of an artiste or scientist or mathematician - why would (should) the onus be on the person to honour disgrace with grace? If being a soldier is patriotic, are pacificsts from within the same nation automatically unpatriotic? What makes a Nation if not its citizens? Dissent does not mean that you do not value the nation, it just means that you do not agree with the nation on a certain issue - and have no qualms about saying so. In TMS's case he has every right to feel slighted and he can say so with dignity by turning down the (dis)honour. Being a citizen also means having the inalienable right to say NO, wouldn't you agree?
  
  Racism is almost always implicit. In everyday life
  it works through seemingly "innocent" remarks about the way a person's name sounds, or how they smell, or what they bring in their lunch boxes "See, see how they roll their rice like ladoos and throw them into their mouth," how their accent is funny, how their features are dark or blue, how they sit stand walk dress...But you are right, Class does play an important role, and within the same "ethnic" group too there are notions of "great" and "small".
  
  I didn't know Sitara Devi turned down the Padma Bushan. But that was her prerogative, and I am sure she did not think it as being "graceless." (This interpretation is always from outside looking in.) She (I am only conjecturing here) must have seen it as an act of principle. There could also be other reasons (the behind-the-scenes thing, which not free from politics) for her decision. Who can tell?
  
  Do Saurashtrians speak Marathi or Konkani?
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.67) on: Sat Feb 1 01:49:40 EST 2003
  
  Approps Sitara Devi, that is exactly the point. Whatever be the reason - she may be right for all I know- it doesn't look good that is all. As a true citizen of the world symbols should not matter, nation is also I suppose only a symbol. But till such time of universal brotherhood i'd like to be patriotic. So in my definition The President of India as long as he is in office comes to represent the symbol of India & I on a personal level would feel very uneasy rejecting the award ( however insulting the process and manner of selection would have been) Criticism of the PM is fair game but not the office of presidency.kuttayai kuzhappiteanno?
  Racism is bad but it is all too prevalent. That is because people in most cases have double standards one within & another without. I can go on & on but.
  So if I were TMS I'll go receive the award & dedicate it to the Devan, Tippu s & Srinivases of TFM.
  
  

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