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Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 6: Samudhaaya Seerthirutha / Puratchi Paadalgal

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on Tue Aug 11 19:17:02 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

For a good understanding of how to approach this ongoing symposium, please refer to the thread, "Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 1:Iyarkai Varnanai" before you post. Let me reiterate that this is not a patti mandram, but a research symposium.
Please show TFM examples of both poets with regards to just their Samudhaaya Seerthirutha / Puratchi Paadalgal for this thread.
Please provide the name of the song whose lines you excerpt and the name of the movie if known. Here are the symposium categories, the bold topics are yet to be discussed:
1)Iyarkai Varnanai
2)Kaadhal Paadalgal
3)Thaththuva Paadalgal
4)Vaarthai Prayoagam
5)Nagaichchuvai Paadalgal
6)Samudhaaya Seerthirutha / Puratchi Paadalgal
7)Vingyaana/Naveena Karuthoottum Paadalgal
8)Ilakkiya Moolam Ulla Paadalgal
9)Kadhaikku Porundhiya Paadalgal(situational songs)
10)Kavidhai Milekarkal (Poetic Milestones that the poets will be remembered by!)

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Kuzhambiya_kuttai (@ 201-219-185.ipt.aol.com) on: Sun Aug 23 18:33:38 EDT 1998
  
  Please add "I think" before all the statements. It was my thoughts and not a generic one. And I am not in any way trying to summarize this topic.
  Sorry if i had created such impression
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Aug 24 11:49:21 EDT 1998
  
  Kuzhambiya_kuttai, if you would like to come out with a name then I could assign a "Tie" vote for you. Otherwise, thanks for your contribution.
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate1.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Aug 24 13:10:55 EDT 1998
  
  Sorry, Udhaya... Marupadiyum N-aanum kuttaiyai kuzhappa varEn...:):):):)
  
  Mr.KK, VM pEN veduthalai pattu N-iraiya ezhuthi irukkar. adhE VM pENgaLai padu kevalamagavum kiNdal saidhu pattu ezhuthi irukkar.
  
  
  Idho ennoda mudivurai...
  
  indha kaalathila thappum, thavarumaga ellorum paattu ezhuthikittu irukkira N-erathila KaNNadhasan enna sollarar...
  N-alla N-alla piLLaigaLai Nambi... paattai kELunga.
  thappu enbadhu theriyamal saivadhu
  thavaru enbadhu therinthu saivadhu
  thappu saithavan thiruthik koLLaNum
  thavaru saithavan vEtkapadaNum
  endru solkiraar. Idhu TMS, MGR-ukkaga padina version-la sonnadhu. innum arumaiya sollarar...
  Sowkar, SV Subbaiya (singers Suseela, Seergazhi)....
  annaiyidam N-ee anbai kaaNalaam
  thandhaiyidam N-ee arivai adaiyalam
  irandum irundhaal perai vangalam
  perai vaanginaal oorai vangalam
  
  KaNNdippaga VM pala N-alla Puratchi/Samudhaya padalgaLai ezhuthi irukkirar. SandhEgamE illai. He is basically a communist. Oru Communist-aal idhai vida sirappa ezhutha mudiyum, mudiya vENdum. Athikathai aravOdu verupavar. KaNNadhasan appadi alla. Avar aanmigavaathi. avaridam irundhu idhaivida arpudhamana communisa varigaL varukindrana. ondrU engaL jathiyE, ondrU engaL N-eethiyE... paadalil evvaLavu arputhama veLLai manithan viyarvaiyum, karuppu manidhan kaNNirum ondrU sErum kadalilE uppu N-eerin vadivilE... sollarar..
  
  KaNNadhasan, Vairamuthuvaivida melOngi N-irkiraar enbadhu en thaazhmaiyaana karuththu.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-1.cisco.com) on: Mon Aug 24 15:26:41 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya
  
  I was just an observer in this topic, enjoying flow by you, kanchana and others. If you want to consider my vote, its for kaNNadAsan. However, I agree with you, the gap is not very wide between them in this category, IMHO.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-tf022.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Aug 24 15:56:46 EDT 1998
  
  My Personal Summation:
  kaNNadhAsan is the poet I'd credit with coming up with songs which the common (wo)man can relate to at a personal, individual level. samudhAyap puratchi enbadhu oru thani manidhanin manadhil malarndhu, avan(L)aiyum, avan(L)aich chuRRi iruppavargaLaiyum seerpaduththuvadhE; kootangaLum, kOshangaLum sErndhu puratchi seidhAl sattangaL mARalAm, manak kuttaigaL mARAp pOvadhillai. Since I personally believe in this grassroots, individual approach to social reforms, I believe kaNNadhAsan's songs are more effective in terms of focusing an individual's attention on the issue and making him/her believe in the cause (if at all).
  
  Vairamuththu has some fire power in the lines he writes when he applies himself to this subject. He is a self-proclaimed atheist, socialist, women's rights advocate and a Bharadhi follower--and it shows. However, with a few exceptions, most of his social reforms songs are real low profile and obscure songs; I dug up his pro-women's-rights songs since I've been doing intense research on Vairamuththu even before this Symposium series started, out of personal curiosity. Given their relative obscurity, the songs' impact on the masses is even lower than kaNNadhAsan's more popular songs. Finally, VM himself acknowledges the change in times which "requires" him to write the (higher % of) exploitative lyrics, thus: "inRaiya nilaimayil cinema company-kku pAttu ezhudha kambanE vandhAlum avanum seedhaiyai silEdaiyilthAn pAda vENdiyirukkum". Without getting into personal value judgments, let me just say that I cannot claim VM's TFM contribution to be socially uplifting looking at the total picture. I do hope he continues to contribute to social uplifting thru his non-TFM efforts.
  
  Net, kaNNadhAsan it is!
  
  
• From: Kuzhambiya_kuttai (@ 167-187-218.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Aug 24 22:16:12 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya Adikka varatheenga Last question and will defenitely withdraw
  To Kanchana:
  Common man/women identified him/herself with Kannadasan Songs when it is a philosophical song, bhakthi paadalkal, virakthi paadalkal. But social rev. songs?.
  Kannadasan endravudan ninaivukku varum "Ponal pohattum poda", "Marudhamalai Maamaniye", "veedu varai uravu" Yes I agree. But how many identified or able to identify him/herself with KDs Social rev. songs?
  There are so many great songs by him as you pointed out. But do you feel it created an impact on the masses? Oru "Chinna payale" create pannina impact vera entha paattum create pannalaye.
  (Again and again KD mattamnu solla varalai).
  Kaathal, Iyarkai varunanani, virakthi ivatrai, iniya thamizhil koori oru thaakkathai yerpatuthiyavar, samooka paadalkalil oru thaakkam yerpaduthavillayo enkira maathiri oru Illusion.
  (Will be very happy if i am able to come out of that illusion)
  The same case with VM. Both failed to create the needed/necessary impact on the masses?
  
  To Prakash :
  How did you come to the conclusion that it is Mr. Kuzhambiya Kuttai and not Ms. Kuzhambiya Kuttai? Just curious. (Male dominated society??????)
  KD's view about women's role in society in also a controversial and questionable one. Many songs can be pointed out in this regard.
  
  To Udhaya:
  Posting offendinga iruntha feel free to delete this.
  Thanks
  
  
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate1.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Tue Aug 25 12:58:37 EDT 1998
  
  To KK,
  Normally female posters doesn't use nick name. That is why I mentioned "Mr.".
  
  My point..even KaNNadhasan's peNkagaLai kindal adikkum paadalgaL "aabaasam" endra level-ukku poga villai. PKKS-ai ingE izhukka mudiyadhu. Indha discussion is between KaNNadhasan & VM.
  
  KaNdippaga Unga post offending-a illavE illai.
  Delete ellam paNNa mudiyadhu...!!!
  
  Now compare between KaNNadhasan & VM then give your opinion. I feel KaNNadhasan's songs (rev. songs in this context) are more popular than VM's songs.
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Aug 25 14:08:43 EDT 1998
  
  kuzhambiya kuttai, I asked for your name to validate your statements and to lend them credibility and to prevent double-voting. But if you have personal reasons to remain invisible, then your vote can be counted as a tie. Is it a tie you vote for or a pro-VM vote? Just clarify that and we can move on. Pagalavan, Kanchana, Prakash, thanks for your summations.
  I can proclaim Kannadhaasan the clear leader in this category unless a sudden surge in participation tilts things the other way(yeah, right).
  
  
• From: Reva (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Tue Aug 25 22:42:48 EDT 1998
  
  From my own personal point of view Kannadhasan's
  observations/advise appeal to me much better
  because they are straight and simple.
  
  Let me continue giving a few more examples for
  Kannadhasan. These I am including not for argument sake,
  but just to let people know them.
  
  Some "samudhaaya" observations by Kannadhasan in the
  saththiyam, idhu saththiyam song ...
  (padam: Idhu Sathiyam)
  
  panjai pOttu neruppai maRaippavan
  paiththiyakkaaranadaa
  paavam theerkka paNaththai iRaippavan
  pachchai madaiyanadaa
  nenjukku needhiyai oLiththE vaazhbavan
  nichchayam mirugamadaa
  nalla nErmaiyilum than vErvaiyilum dhinam vaazhbavan
  dheyvamadaa
  
  
  
  Here is a jolly Kannadhasan song about the press...
  (padam: Kulamagal Radhai)
  
  ulagam idhilE adangudhu
  uNmaiyum poyyum viLangudhu
  kalagam varudhu theerudhu
  achchuk kalaiyaal nilamai maaRudhu
  
  poy sonnaalum mey sonnaalum
  vaayaal solli payanillE
  adhai maiyilE nanaichchu paper-il adichchaa
  maRuththup pEsa aaLillE
  
  cinema star-unga padangaLai pOttaa
  theruvil paper kidaikkalE
  adhil sirippu cartoon kaadhal case-ugaL sErththaal
  business modaiyillE
  
  kaadhal kadhaigaL padippadhaRkkendrE
  vaalibar koottam vaangudhu
  andha kadhaiyilE varuvadhai manasilE ninaiththu
  raaththiri pagalaa Engudhu
  
  
  
  
• From: Reva (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Tue Aug 25 23:00:07 EDT 1998
  
  Here is a nice song in support of women, by Kannadhasan,
  in the movie, "orE vazhi"...
  situation: a girl's wedding is stopped by the groom's side
  because the bride's side didn't give sufficient varadhakshiNai.
  The song comes as "asareeri"/advise for the bride's brother...
  
  vettuNda kaiyum
  veezhndhuvitta poongkodiyum
  kattuNdu thaan vaNangum
  kanniyargaL ponnadiyai
  
  koon vizhundha maanidargaL
  kuvindhirukkum samudhaayam
  thaan vizhundhu vaNangum naaL
  thalaimuRaiyil vaaraadhO
  
  pozhudhu vidiyaadhO
  pudhuppaadhai thOndraadhO
  azhudhazhudhu kanniyargaL
  alaRum naaL maaRaadhO
  
  pazhudhupadaa uththamanE
  paNbumigum kaNNiyanE
  vizhudhuvida vaiththa maram
  vizhundhuvidal kaNdaayO
  
  maalaiyitta mangaiyarkku
  vaazhvil orE vazhidhaan
  thaazhpidiththuk kEtpaayO
  thalai kunindhu azhaippaayO
  
  thangaiyinai vaazhavaikka
  thayangaadhE puRappadu nee
  
  The song is sung by P.Leela.
  
  More to come later. Bye.
  
  
• From: Kuzhambiya_kuttai (@ 167-166-6.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Aug 26 01:11:17 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya:
  Thanks for your consideration. Not interested in "WHO" wins rather interested in HOW they win and WHY they are considered as winner. (Final winner is "Iniya Thamizh" sariya???)
  Jumped into this discussion only after I thought u have already did the summation (August 19th)...
  Mine was just a "Kadaicherukal"(Idaicherukal maathiri)...
  Humbly and Politely disagree with the Voting system.
  I have no problems in accepting your decision.
  If my postings have obsturcted the flow of discussion in this or other topic my sincere apologies
  Thanks
  
  
  
  
• From: Reva (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Fri Aug 28 07:01:53 EDT 1998
  
  'Thanga Surangam' padaththil Kannadhasan ezhudhiya 'naattuppatru'
  paadal... (MD: TKRamamurthy, Singer: TMS)
  (I am not sure whether this song aptly fits in this thread.)
  
  naan piRandha naattukkendha naadu periyadhu
  ingu peNNum aaNum vaazhum vaazhkkai iniyadhu
  thennaattilE thaNNeerum pon meenum viLaiyaadudhu
  moondru thamizh thOndriyadhum engaL naadu
  
  kattazhzagum pottazhagum poovazhagum
  thaNdai kaalazhagum
  engaL mangaiyarin kalaiyallavaa
  siRu manjaL muga silaiyallavaa
  
  yaanai katti pOradikkum paaNdi naattilum
  ponni veedu thORum dheepam Etrum chOzha naattilum
  thennai iLaneer soriyum sEra naattilum
  thirukkOyil siRandhOngum thoNdai naattilum
  
  mElai naadu paraparappil vaazhndhu paarkkudhu
  indha keezhai naadu thani vazhiyE nadandhu paarkkudhu
  vinjnanam andha naattil pOrai naadudhu
  meynjanam ulagamengum amaidhi thEdudhu
  
  
  
• From: Reva (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Fri Aug 28 23:28:07 EDT 1998
  
  'Varumaiyin Niram Sigappu' padaththil Kannadhasanin paadal...
  
  ('Thanga Surangam' padap paadalil naattai uyarththip
  paadiyavar ingu naattin nilamaiyai thaakkugiRaar.)
  
  paattu oNNu paadu thambi
  pasiyai konjam maRandhiruppOm
  bharadhaththu thalainagaril
  thEdu thEdu vElai thEdu thambi
  bharadhaththu perumai thannai paadu paadu
  sORu edhukku thambi
  
  vandhaara vaazha vachchu
  sondhangaLai Enga vachchu
  boomi engum pEreduththOmE thambiyappaa
  oor muzhudhum budhdhi sonnOmE
  
  pattaNaththu veedhiyilE pattam petra
  aaNum peNNum... iddilikkum
  dhOsaikkumaa suththi suththi vaaraarappaa
  paarukkuLLE nalla naadu
  bharadhandhaanuNNu sollungappaa
  
  vatraadha gangai endrum
  vaadaadha ponni endrum
  kaththaadha aaLillaiyappaa
  aanaalum kaththaaLai veLaiyudhEyappaa
  naam poRandha seemaiyilE
  naam senja paavamillE
  appanukkum ammavukkum
  aasai vandha dhOshamappaa
  gangaiyilE moozhgivittu
  kaavi katti pOvOmappaa
  
  oorellaam piLLaiyappaa
  uLveedu niRaiyudhappaa
  kooraiyilum thongudhEyappaa
  inimEl kooppida pErillaiyappaa
  paLLiyilE idamumillE
  padichchu vandhaa vElai illE
  paLLiyaRai mattum summaa
  bakku bakku bakku endru perukkudhappaa
  aaNdavan mEl pazhiyai pOttu
  adi vayiththai thadavungappaa
  
  
  
  

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