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Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 4: Vaarththai Prayoagam

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on Thu Jul 23 21:34:25 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

For a good understanding of how to approach this ongoing symposium, please refer to the thread, "Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 1:Iyarkai Varnanai" before you post. Let me reiterate that this is not a patti mandram, but
a research symposium.
Please show TFM examples of both poets with regards to just theirVaarththai Prayoagam for this thread. By vaarththai prayoagam, we mean captivating use of language, word play, different use of a known word, vocabulary, etc. Please provide the name of the song whose lines you excerpt and the name of the movie if known.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Arvind (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Thu Jul 30 08:13:47 EDT 1998
  
  Again, I have observed that VM has this habit of using words ending in am with those ending in um . For instance, munivarum and kanimaram .
  
  Another aspect of VM's lyrics is that he has often used the flowering of a bud to describe love. For instance, he says :
  
  Poo poothadhai yAr pAthadhu
  kAdhal kooda poovai pOnRadhu
  
  
  in KadhAnAyagan, and then :
  
  
  Pudhiya poovidhu poothadhu
  iLaiya vaNdudhAn pArthadhu
  
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ dante.cs.wmich.edu) on: Thu Jul 30 14:05:40 EDT 1998
  
  A kind request guys. CAn we stop calling Kannadasan as KD..KD really sounds bad:))
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ dante.cs.wmich.edu) on: Thu Jul 30 14:07:57 EDT 1998
  
  In 'naanum oru penn'kannadasan writes
  
  manam parkka maruppormun
  padaithai kanna
  niram parthu verupporum
  koduthai kanna
  inam parthu enaiserkka
  marandhai kanna
  nalla idam parthu silaiyaga
  amarndhai kanna
  
  ponnaana manamondru thandhai kanna
  adhil poopondra ninaivondrai thandhai kanna
  kann parkka mudiyamal maraithai kanna
  endhan kadan therkka ennai nee padaithai kanna
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ dante.cs.wmich.edu) on: Thu Jul 30 14:09:51 EDT 1998
  
  The second line in the second charanam should be
  
  adhil poopondra ninaivondrai VAITHAI kanna
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ dante.cs.wmich.edu) on: Fri Jul 31 12:49:23 EDT 1998
  
  SEErudan vandhu
  SEEdhanam thandhu
  SEEthaiyai vazhtha vandharo devi
  
  Kannadasan in 'vasanthathil oru naal'(moondru deivangal)
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jul 31 16:54:41 EDT 1998
  
  Song: thakita thathimi; Film: Salangai Oli
  Notice the word play by VM in splitting enbaena to spell en pena,
  
  iruthayam adikkadi irandhadhu enbaena
  en kadhai ezhudhida marukkudhu en pena
  
  ...
  in the same song VM uses a good rhyme that is also a rare combination
  of words,
  
  pazhaya raagam marandhu
  nee parandhadhenna thirindhu
  iravu dhoarum azhudhu
  en irandu kannum pazhudhu
  
  azhudhu pazhudhaagiradhaam kangal, aaha enna karpanai.
  Further, in the same song, VM reduces a deep philosophical statement
  in two lines,
  
  manidhan thinamum alaiyil alayum kumizhi
  theriyum therindhum manamae kalangaadhiru nee
  
  here is another muran,
  
  kaadhal ennai kaadhalikkavillai
  
  
  Song: mounamaana naeram ; Film: Salangai Oli
  This song builds on the phase of transition when friendship turns to
  love. Here, VM's lyrics act as the camera that captures the mood,
  atmosphere, weighted feelings of lovers,
  
  mounamaana naeram
  ila manadhil enna baaram
  manadhil oasaigal
  idhazhil mounangal
  yaen endru kaelungal
  . . .
  ilamaichchumaiyai
  manam thaangikkollumo
  pulangum alaiyai
  kadal moodikkollumo
  
  kulikkum oar kili
  kodhikkum neer thuli
  . . .
  oodhalaana maargazhi
  neelamaana raaththiri
  nee vandhu aathari
  . . .
  ivalin manadhil innum
  iravin eeramo
  kodiyil malargal
  kulirkaayum naeramo
  
  paadhai thaediyae
  paadham poagumo
  
  kaadhalaana naesamo
  kanavu kandu koosumo
  thanimaiyodu paesumo
  
  
  Song: vaan polae ; Film: Salangai Oli
  This song has VM giving an original description of Lord Krishna,
  
  vaan polae vannam kondu
  vandhaai Gopaalanae
  poo muththam thandhavanae
  vennila minnidum kanniyar kangalil
  un mugam kandavanae
  pala vindhaigal seithavanae
  
  
  
• From: seetharaman (@ 98.houston-16-17rs.tx.dial-access.att.net) on: Fri Jul 31 17:16:41 EDT 1998
  
  Kannadasan has used a type of poetry called 'Anthathi' in film songs. Which means the last word of a sentence (Antham) will be the first (Athi) word of the next on.
  
  Here is an example.
  
  this one is from Moondru Mudichu.
  
  Vasantha kala nathikalile vairamani neeralaigal
  Neeralaigal meethinile nenjirandin ninaivaligal
  
  Ninaivaligal thodarndu vanthal neramellam kanavalaigal
  Kanavaligal malarvatharku Kamanavan malarkanaigal
  
  Malarkanaigal paainthuvittal madi irandum panchanaigal
  Panchanail mugam puthaithu sarasamidum puthukkalaigal
  
  Puthukkalaigal peruvatharku poomalai manavinaigal
  
  At this time Kamal falls into the Lake.
  
  Rajni
  sings the final part.
  Manavinaigal yaarudanoo mayavanin vidhivalaigal
  vidhivalaigal mudivu seyyum vasanthakala neeralaigal.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Aug 3 14:00:20 EDT 1998
  
  Folks, I think we are ready for summations in this thread.
  My summation:
  "Vaarththai Prayoagam" is the most subjective topic in this symposium. Personal aesthetics definitely play a big part in this topic.
  As we have seen through many examples posted here, both VM and Kannadhaasan have imprinted their own style in TFM lyrics. If Kannadhaasan took TFM lyrics away from archaic, stilted language and gave it simple words with profound effect, VM took TFM away from the cliche-ridden songs where post-modern heroes and heroines were no longer being equated to "Kannan and Raadhai", not to forget VM's step away from the submissive roles given to women where the woman is used to sing her obedience to the man. So in their own right Kannadhaasan and VM were "vaarththai oaviyargargal, sindhanaich chirpigal" who broke the mold before them and walked their own creative paths. For every one who argues that "VM can't write Athikkaai Kai kai", I can argue with the same logic that Kannadhaasan can't write "Pani Vizhum malar vanam". Both poets have shown remarkable invention in language. Both poets have not displayed a drying of their creative wells. Many forget the starkly different circumstances and time constraints that VM works under. The longest VM took for a song (or rather was allowed to take for a song)was a whole night for "Sangeetha Jaadhimullai"-- a twelve minute opera from Kaadhal Oaviyam. We have all seen mention of Kannadhaasan given the liberty of up to three days for some songs.e.g. "Kannaa karumai nira Kanna". I'm not saying that Kannadhaasan never wrote a song quickly, he has done that several times. But he also had the luxury of letting his mind percolate for hours or days which VM didn't have.
  Both poets have been sincerely copied by many, but the originals still reign supreme in their own vernacular. While there may be equal or better talents in the printed world of "Pudhukkavithai", VM is the one who launched it successfully in TFM and for that history will remember him.
  
  After this rather lengthy examination I can't but call a draw, a tie between Kannadhaasan and VM with regards to "Vaarththaip Prayoagam".
  
  It's time to move on to "Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuththu TFM Symposium Topic 5: Nagaichchuvai Paadalgal". See you there.
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate6.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Tue Aug 4 12:29:14 EDT 1998
  
  No Udhaya I can't agree that Kannadhasan tied with VM in varthai priyogam. In many songs VM strugled for words to put and used English in a poetic songs.
  
  Varthai priyogam enbadhu veru kavithai N-ayam enbadhu vEru..
  
  KaNNadhasan can write better than "Pani vizhum malar vanam.." no doubt about that. If VM uses the "vaarthai priyogam" he missed the subject many times.. For example in the song
  "Poo pookkum osai adhai ketkathan aasaai (which is not at all posible. Negative song...)"
  
  in the same song he mentioned
  
  "pasiedukkum N-Eram thaaLikkum osaai, sirngara sangeetham...."
  (which is possible... possitive in a negative song..)
  
  pasiedukkira N-eram.. "ahaha, yaro thaLikirangaLe... pasiya kiLapputhE... sirungarama irukkE..." idhuthan idhukku artham.
  
  varthai priyogathirkkaga KaNNadhasan pattula mattram saithatha theriyala..
  
  Another thing I can't agree with you Udhaya..
  about VM wrote song within 12 mins and KaNNadhasan took 3 days to write a song.
  
  KaNNadhasan wrote 32 "saraNam"s in 30 min. for the song "Ezhu surangaLukkuL ethanai paadal".
  
  This is not the scale for this symposium.
  
  According to me KaNNadhasan is ahead of
  ariamuthu in this regard. Any comments????
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-1.cisco.com) on: Tue Aug 4 13:03:17 EDT 1998
  
  I am in concurrence with Udhaya that both kaviyarasar and VM have equal and fair share as for as vArththaip prayOgam is concerned.
  In general, vArththaip prayOgam is an outcome of one's mozhi vaLam and mozhi ALumai irrespective of the methodology (or the style, or bANi) prefered/used into lyrics for a given situation. Kaviyarasar has used wordplay, andhAthi etc. whereas VM has brought a set of rare words and puthukkavithai structures which were not used before in Tamil film lyrics. (Let us recall kaviyarasar's praise on VM for andhimazhai pozhigiRathu) It is from this perspective, I think both have equally enriched film songs (aka isap pAdalagaL) with abundant mozhi vaLam, IMHO.
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Aug 4 13:06:31 EDT 1998
  
  Prakash, I respectfully disagree. I stand by what I wrote. But you are welcome to your summation. I agree that time taken to write a song is not the scale for this symposium, but time constraints and the luxury of time certainly become a factor in any creative art. I just wanted to bring to light the amazing output by someone who consistantly cranks out songs amidst tight deadlines.(whether he should be doing it is another issue where I might agree with you)
  
  I also can't agree with the notion that Kannadhaasan can write better than "Pani Vizhum",since unless Kannadhaasan wrote for the exact sandham, we can't compare it. I put that in my summation as a rebuttal to such ridiculous comparisons.
  
  "Poo pookkum oasaiyai" kaetka enakkum romba aasai, athu mudiyavillai endraal aasaippadakkoodaatha? Idhu enna saamy restriction? Aasaikku vetkamum illai varaiyaraakkalum illai. Anyway, your summation is duly noted. Thanks.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Tue Aug 4 13:23:16 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya: Prakash asai padarathu thappunnu sollala. nadakka mudiyaatha vishiyangala paththi pEsumpOthu, nadakka koodiya onRai paRRi pEsarathu is out of place nnu sollaraar. (IMO :)
  
  

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