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Is ARR Running out of Stuff?

Topic started by Ramesh Vaidhyanathan (@ gengw.gensym.com) on Fri Mar 13 15:14:51 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I listened to VandeMatharam in which ARR recycled his own tunes from Kizhakku Ceemayile and a touch of a song from Indira.
Also ARR's recent movies for big time producers like Ratchagan and Iruvar (except one song) and Dhoud in Hindi did not have any notable music. Remember ARRs last hit Minsarak Kanavu music was done long time ago.

If for a major album for Sony released on 50th year of Indian Independence, ARR cannot produce original music, then I have to come to the conclusion that he is running out of stuff. I heard that ARR is planning to cut down on movies and concentrate more on albums. Thus he will have to produce less and earn more.

Right now I do not see any difference in the quality of music produced by ARR and Karthik Raja. In fact I think Deva is doing a better job of providing consistant good quality music.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Thu Feb 25 16:18:31 EST 1999
  
  Infact, I also heard ESK many times. Its not at all impressive. I can't say even one song in ESK is of Jeans or Uyire quality forget about TT
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu Feb 25 18:52:41 EST 1999
  
  RajaG,
  What a pleasant tirade-free exposition! Thanks, now I understand your position and your inital posting steps aside from becoming a sweeping generalized statement. You have validated your points well. Thanks for that.
  
  Whether you convinced me, no, I still like what I said I liked. Mano is a big knock on any song for me, there are probably 5 songs of his that I like, and those too I like inspite of him and not because of him. Lyrics mean a lot to me in a song, so that's a definite scaletipper when comparing Uzhavan/TT to Jeans/Uyirae/ESK. Most of the time I like UK's voice, this is true especially in Jeans.
  
  And now to some points of contention:
  
  Every two bit orchestra can and do play at least four songs from Jeans...
  
  I have heard a great rendition of "Ilamayenum Poongaatru" by a light music orchestra,it didn't diminish the song's greatness for me. My friend can play Debussy's and Beethoven's compositions on the piano, it doesn't mean he could have composed those pieces.
  
  not stick to a given opinion, even if it is yours.
  This sounds like vanjappugazchchi. But hey, I will take it, you've been a good sport.
  
  
• From: Srinivas (@ pup12.stanford.edu) on: Fri Feb 26 18:27:33 EST 1999
  
  RajaG,
  Good analysis. You are right about "Anbey Anbey" being influenced by a Hindi song. In fact the Charanam tune is exactly the same as the "Mera Jootha Hain Japani" song from Aawara. There are a lot of such inspirations from Hindi songs in Arr's tunes.
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ inet-fw5-o.oracle.com) on: Fri Feb 26 20:22:20 EST 1999
  
  Does anyone find any resemblance between the beat of 'chinna chinna mazhai' song from ESK, and that in the male version of 'Ek, Dho, Theen..' from 'Tezaab'? Even if that's not the case, the ESK song's beat sounds very familiar to me.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.155) on: Fri Feb 26 22:49:51 EST 1999
  
  ARR has been recycling in all the films (at least one or two songs) with the exception of may be Roja and Gentleman. Hence it is not so that he has run out of stuff only recently. It is just that the listeners are finding this out very late, mainly due to the reason that his films are few and far between.
  
  His much popular album Bombay had one allah gulla song which was an exact remake of Ottakaththa kattikko. His `Chandralekha' number in Thiruda Thiruda is a carefully camouflaged version of MJ's smooth criminal in Bad album. Well, I can go on citing such examples. The point is, it is not that he has recently gone out of stuff.
  
  To begin with, he had limited stuff only. Since he carefully marketed his products with long gaps and big names & with proper coating and tinkering like Ambassador's Mark IV and Nova which were basically no different from Mark II or Mark 3, average listeners never saw the embedded recycles. (Probabaly that's why kumudam wrote that he has copied for the 1st time in Jeans only which not in accordance with the facts.)
  
  It is unfortunate that TFM listeners are served with such mediocre & repeat, refrigerated, micrewave warmed stuff today, after enjoying sumptuous feasts, ever new and full of fresh items for about two decades by IR.
  
  
• From: David (@ 202.185.48.82) on: Sat Feb 27 01:15:35 EST 1999
  
  ARR has been doing a excellent job of recreating his music ( but not others ) for the sake of the film producers. But what we can be proud of him is that they are beautiful recreations only known to careful listeners. No one can match IR for that case. IR is the music supreme for Tamils all around the world. Long life IR !!!
  
  
• From: SM (@ pmnat01-p02.sgum.mci.com) on: Sat Feb 27 01:34:15 EST 1999
  
  ARR is definitely not running out of stuff. People continue to enjoy his songs. And the criticism that he is running out of stuff was not started now. Right from the time "Thiruda Thiruda" was released, critics are bashing ARR and are repeatedly saying that "He won't last for another two years" and "He is running out of stuff". What has happened? ARR is continuing as the most successful music director in India. What if his tunes are recycled? I still like them. And ARR IS NOT THE ONLY ONE TO RECYCLE TUNES. Lot of other music directors have done this in the past. Isaiyila ennallaam seyya mudiyumo athanayayum Isaignani ILayaraaja senjuttaar. People must appreciate ARR that inspite of this aspect, he has given significant no. of hits. And even while recycling, he is carefully blending it with something new such that for the average listener, they don't sound as a recycled tune. Definitely, I don't find his music mediocre. Well, whatever some people crib, he will continue to dominate the Thamizh Film Music Industry for atleast another decade or so and continue to provide good music. And critics will continue such complaints. This is not going to end until some other music director takes ARR's place. But for me, he is a very good music director and he is giving me good music and I would like to enjoy them instead of concentrating the negative aspects of his music. MSV maadhiriyo, IR maadhiriyo, oru mega virundhu kodukkalainnaalum, yedho pasikku burgero, sandwichovaavadhu kodukkuraarae. Adhu varaikkum ok.
  
  
• From: Arun kumar (@ h-21-88-40.ccnet.com) on: Sat Feb 27 02:04:25 EST 1999
  
  Rehman is not upto the mark, there is no scope for development, adichcha musicaya adikkaran, am i right , so no expansion. no creativity and i also pity the people who dont have taste, Take an example of Maestro IR who has talent just in him , never copies or repeats and acts when needed. what a director he is. People in India are fools to enjoy AR's music, edho pudhu instru adicha it becomes a hit. Tell really , dont u still hear
  "Andhi mazhai pozhigiradu","Agni natchatharam songs" etc.etc. thats the level and standard. Never has AR involved Nature with Music unlike IR. Im sorry for critisizing AR , but im forced to bcos there is no .....
  
  
• From: SM (@ pmnat01-p21.sgum.mci.com) on: Sat Feb 27 03:08:06 EST 1999
  
  Arun Kumar,
  
  Well, while appreciating your views on IR, I would also like to add that, there is no reason to criticize taste of ARR fans (like me) and to generalize people in India as fools (I believe you are also an Indian and do you mean to say that you are also one among the 'fools'?). Let me put it like this. I am a fan of ARR and at the same time I love 80s songs of IR like anyone else in this forum. Not just me. Any person who has listened to IR's everlasting melodies of the 80s will certainly like it. Well, according to you my taste is not upto the standard because I like ARR. Well, since I like IR's songs also, will you dare to say that people who like IR's songs don't have taste? In that case, you too don't have taste, right? Make sure that you don't criticize other people's taste as this forum is meant to discuss music and not taste. Taste differs from person to person and just because you don't like ARR's music doesn't mean that people who like ARR's music don't have taste. And the example ("Agni Natchatram") that you have given to appreciate IR's music is actually not one of the greatest albums of IR. I can give lot of such examples for IR - "Johny", "NizhaLgaL", "Mouna Raagam", "Idhaya Koil", "Raaja Paarvai", "ILamai KaalangaL", "Payanangal Mudivadhillai", "Moondraam Pirai", "Mudhal Mariyaadhai", "Man Vaasanai", "Udhaya Geetham" and much much more. "Agni Natchatram" had great songs but those were no where near songs in the above mentioned films. See, here to taste differs. You like "Agni Natchatram". I too like it but not as much as the above mentioned films. With this can I criticize your taste? Definitely not. That is how others will also feel. So, please refrain from comments criticizing other people's tastes and comments generalizing people in India as fools. And it is unnecessary to drag IR into this thread as the topic here is "whether ARR is running out of stuff?" and not "IR vs ARR".
  
  
• From: Sriram (@ 206.175.174.87) on: Sun Feb 28 05:27:58 EST 1999
  
  Ramesh,
  do u mean to say DEVA does not recycle music..
  i would call him anumallik of tamil nadu..
  he uses the same stolen tune ditto in two movies just with changes in lyrics, stolen from JUNOON- a NYC based Pakistani ROCK BAND. shame on DEVA! and u who thinks that he is anytime better!!
  
  may be the tune is new for people who just hear IR-ARR and DEVA(like u) but not for millions of people who have a global music interest and knowledge.(like me)
  
  if u dont know about why KILAKKU CHEEMAIYILE music
  was used in VANDE MATHARAM do not comment like this!! it sounds disgusting!
  
  there was as interview of ARR and SONY guy, who jointly agreed to the fact the tune was used just because, the SONY guy wanted that particular tune to have a global reach and just not stop with and boundaries of TN.
  
  so ARR was pestered to use the same tune.
  
  
• From: Sriram (@ 206.175.174.87) on: Sun Feb 28 05:47:10 EST 1999
  
  Dorai
  i accept that the tracks of ESK were not as expected.
  But for the director of ESK whos is of no fame, (not sure what his name is), IR and DEVA would have put some @#$#@$ tunes, that people whould never go near those casettes.
  
  the album on the whole putting this above situation is definately commendable.
  the tracks of En Swasa Karte, Thirakatha Kattukulla and Chinna Chinna were really splendid.
  
  IR and DEVA normally perform only when the director or the production company is of name and they feel they will get enough publicity.
  they expect the director for publicity.
  
  but think of Rahman, his concept of working is different. when it is announced that he is the MD, it becomes the best publicity possible for that movie. his pressure of producing a good track mounts and he indeed performs reasonably well.
  i dont think by any chance Deva would have been put under that pressure. I dont think there was any movie (except Aasai) which ran part for the Deva's musical score!!
  
  let Deva be put under that public-expectation pressure. see how he preforms..
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Sun Feb 28 06:20:39 EST 1999
  
  So, Mu.Kalanjiyam was such a big stalwart when he made Poomani and Poonthottam.
  So, Manirathnam was already being hailed as India' Spielberg when he made Pallavi Anu Pallavi and Pagal nilavu.
  So, well, you get my drift , dont you?
  C'mon...
  
  IR and DEVA normally perform only when the director or the production company is of name and they feel they will get enough publicity.
  they expect the director for publicity. ...?
  
  Sriram! You guys cant keep off comparing Raja with Deva , can you? You guys cant resist the vicarious pleasure of bracketing Raja with Deva, can you?
  Well, I should probably tell myself "You cant keep off this thread, can you?" !:).
  
  
  
  

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