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Illayaraja in the list of international classical composers

Topic started by Unmai (@ 24.130.233.129) on Tue Aug 13 20:01:05 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I surprisingly found his name in the list of classical composers around the world.


http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians-list/composers/classical.html

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: ST (@ 64.229.179.196) on: Thu Aug 15 15:43:42 EDT 2002
  
  Bunch of mega idiots (Unmai & aravind) are talking lot of nonsense. Absolutely these guys are still living in 70's & 80's. These guys are trying to be genius by telling us that Balachander/Bharadhiraja/Balumahendra/Mahendran/Fazil/Manirathnam/Rajinikanth/Kamal & all other popular persons are total nut cases because there first choice of MD is ARR. Unmai (always telling lies) says that ARR songs look totally out of place in most of his movies. I wonder whether these guys have watched IR stupid movies & commenting on ARR. Hahahahaaaa....
  
  So ARR & other music loving fans
  
  PLEASE IGNORE 24.130.233.129 as he is genuinely trying to be a maniac. I can't understand why Unmai gets upset about 161.142.100.86 when he is the one who drives everyone mad in this forum.
  
  Can anyone tell me
  do you have to be really stupid to be IR's fans or if you are an IR's fan then you got to be stupid.
  
  Look at Unmai, He is not only starting a totally stupid thread but also writing pages & pages of totally pointless & untrue statements to prove that he is a pathetic person in this whole forum!!!!
  
  
• From: Unmai (@ 24.130.233.129) on: Thu Aug 15 15:58:58 EDT 2002
  
  ST you are an useless and pathetic idiot. If you can't stomach what i say just keep quiet. Not even a single line of you make any sense. ST i don't care a damn if you call IR stupid movies!! and all. To be honest i am not going to defend IR.
  I am just a music lover. ST you must be the stupidest person on the face of the earth to meaninglessly accuse me!!! If you can't face the truth go and committ suicide... 64.299... you are as worse as 161.... You call IR fans stupids!! Like you know them.. I think it is a shame to reply losers like you ST. You are also a disgrace to this TFM forum. Write something sensible!! Just adding "Hahahaha " doesn't mean you are cool. It means you are a moron who has no idea of any music let alone IR music ARR music... You think people will listen to your moronic statements. Just get the hell out of here.. Are you a PSYCHO ST? Go admit yourself in a mental asylum if you are an orphan!!
  
  
• From: Teja (@ 63.201.144.200) on: Thu Aug 15 16:02:53 EDT 2002
  
  ST
  I am not sure what made you post such a harsh message but looks like you are not aware of the facts. Balumahendra/Mahendran/Fazil never worked with ARR. They will never do.
  Balumahendra openly stated that he would never make a movie without IR.
  I am not ARR hater, but I hate when people fight trying to comparing them. Ilayaraja is genuinely gifted composer. ARR was good initially. As of today both are not up to the mark.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 170.35.240.203) on: Thu Aug 15 16:03:03 EDT 2002
  
  START DIGRESSION....
  
  Unmai - a simple suggestion.... sorry if it hurts u.... u have an answer in what u have written - "its a shame to reply to losers like you".... my suggestion is, practise that.... ignore posts which are *totally* irrelevant.... yes, of course, the blood boils for a minute when u read this persons comment, but its much better if u *ignore* it..... again, my apology if i had hurt you....
  
  END DIGRESSION....
  
  
• From: To Unmai (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Thu Aug 15 16:37:05 EDT 2002
  
  Dear Unmai, let me voice my opinion too. Of all our film composers, two persons I like and listen mostly are IR and ARR, and then I listen to Karthik Raja whom I wish make more albums than he is doing. For me music is both about the NOTES and the SOUND. By 'NOTES' I mean how in a particular song the notes are arranged, and thier relation to each other when taken as a whole. By 'SOUND' I mean the overall timbre u get to hear from a particular instrument or combination of instruments or various other sounds.
  
  When it comes to IR and ARR, I have the following criteria, though not always. When its ARR, 60% of my interest is for the way he sounds, and 40% is for his compositional abilities. When it is for IR, i have quite the opposite in mind, 60% for his compositional abilities, and 40% for the way he sounds. When it comes to conceiving a new sound and presenting it to us, I don think IR excels Rahman in that, and when it comes to composition, I don think Rahman has excelled IR so far. For example, take the interludes (esp 2nd) from Maya Maya song in Baba. U hear a variety of instruments there, harp, piccolo (or flute?), female voice, violins, acoustic guitar, bass guitar, tabla, bells, cymbals, some sounds from the key board for chorus and the wind like effect. For a second, I forget the notes they are playing, for me it is the sheer way it sounds. Not many indian film composers I hear can conceive such a sound and present it. Or take the ooh la la song from Minsara Kanavu. U hear a decent variety of music in that. It has got that latin kinda music, some traces of our folk, some hip hop beats and so on. Or the Que Sera Sera song from Pukar. ANd I do believ it is tough to get such a variety into one song. That is SOUND for me. By the way, if u notice the ooh la la song, the pallavi will be in the key of Eminor, and the charanam will be in the key of C#minor. And how does the transition takes place in the interludes? Listen to the second interlude, some wild folk beats start, and then a mouth organ (or a key board) is introduced that seems to play a melody in Emajor key. And notice the way, the second interlude ends, in one ear, u cud hear the mouth organ playing the notes E-F#-G-G# (ascending), and in the other ear another mouth organ (or keyboard) plays C#-B-A-G# in descending. By that time the singer is ready to pick up the song on C# note, thus establishing the C#minor key. So that is COMPOSITION or NOTES for me. But as i said, i find the SOUND aspect better in Rahman, and the NOTES aspect better in IR.
  
  One of the best SOUND in IRs song I can remember now is in the Poove Sempoove song. The intro and pallavi are soft, With guitar plucking and a very soft bass. U can also hear a soft violin playing the counter sometimes. But the interludes, esp the second one are in complete contrast with loud and frenzied music. And how did IR get that sound? A slap bass, then another bass, a veena, good use of hi-hat and cymbals on the drum, tabla, and a loud string section. But I wud pay attention to the composition in that interlude. The bass gives us the impression of an minor key, though the song starts in major key. The slap bass, and the second bass introduced later, both play the same melodic line, but are in rhythmic contrast with each other. And the hi hat, veena and violins play short notes in quick succesion giving a feeling of frenzy music. And u wud find a buch of examples like this in both the MDs music.
  
  As swamiji once said in this forum, I wud learn music from IR, and the technique from ARR. And as far as ur argument that ARR or IR is not in the form he was before, I wud disagree with u. Even if one or two songs say otherwise, I wud not choose to write them off.
  
  
• From: ST (@ 64.229.179.196) on: Thu Aug 15 16:43:46 EDT 2002
  
  There you go, Unmai spits lot of sh!ts again. Carry on Unmai(real poi)...... You have to prove your mental ilness beyond doubt!!!
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Thu Aug 15 16:54:57 EDT 2002
  
  To Unmai (@ 132.235.18.15)
  
  I am not sure about Unmai, but I learnt a thing or two from this post, thanks.
  
  
• From: Unmai (@ 24.130.233.129) on: Thu Aug 15 17:12:00 EDT 2002
  
  Yes Sabesan that's what i am doing from now on!! Putting them on ignore.. we will just respond to decent replies. Neither IR Nor ARR is feeding me!!
  Yes Technically ARR is brilliant! I don't disagree. But don't you agree composing is the most important part? Don't you think he is experimenting little too much? When it comes to mixing instruments, none better than Michael Jackson. But where is he now? He sold 26 millions copies of Thriller.. He sold 16 millions of Bad.. 8 millions of Dangerous if i am right.. I am not able to listen to Thriller, Bad anymore as i used to. It is kind of boring. But i still listen to Phil collins "Against the all odds", Eurythmics "Sweet dreams are made of this". I am still excited when i listen to cult classic of Beatles "I wanna hold your hand". There was this pakistani singer 16 year old Nazia Hussain who came out with an album Disco Deewane in the early 80s. She is no more. She had also sung "Ap jaise" from Qurbani. I searched for those mp3s at so many places and downloaded. I am still playing in my car. They have wonderful tunes. I am sure ARR wants to go down as a composer who gives memorable songs than who gives peppy songs with clever instrumental mixing which in my honest opinion nobody cares. Did you by any chance saw Oscar night? Enya performed the song "May it be" from Lord of the rings. Hardly there was any music. But that vocal.. it is kind of therapy for bad moods, broken hearts.. It is an amazing piece from her. I like tunes that reflect our tamil culture more. I don't want some peppy pop tunes, bangara tunes from ARR. I would rather listen to Daler Mahendi which is better. I mean he goes around experimenting too much without any focus.
  I know he works hard. Otherwise he will fade as a short term wonder. It is just my opinion.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Thu Aug 15 17:57:54 EDT 2002
  
  Unmai, composing is an important part, but for some people like me that is not the only important part. And I mean to say that the other part than composing is not an easy thing to do. Take for example Ilaya Nila song and the Nadir Thinna song. Both of them feature acoustic guitar. But the guitar playing in Ilayanila depends mostly on just playing the melody (true u need good skill to play some notes that alternate between the octaves), while in Nadirthinna I wud have to do some mutings and couple of harmonics, and proabably use a effects pedal too. Neways, I am not arguing which is better, cos I like both, but I find the mix I need from both ARR and IR. And for ur satisfaction, I can point out some songs by ARR that are very decent compositions. Kannum Kannum (peppy song to a sad raaga), Adhisayam Thirumanam (variety of meters and scales), KM title song (variety of scales),Kannalane (listen to the guitar playing when the pallavi is sung. Pallavi is sung three times, and u have a different strumming each time), KK title song, July madham (for mix of major and minor scales), Sambo sambo (for those acoustic drums, accordion and the bass that is very much IRs style of bass), Roja roja from KD (for the 1st interlude), songs from ESK and so on.... That makes me think he is not just a guy who experiments with sound. One side people complain he is repetetive, doesnt experiment, on the other side there are people who say he is experimenting too much.
  
  
  By the way, I think most of the popular western bands are defined by their sound or technique, rather than composition. Metallica is known for its high speed power chords, Dave Matthews for their acoustic sound, John Mayer for tapping a lot on his guitar, Nirvana for their grunge sound, GNR and Aerosmith for their mix of blues and hard rock. And I don think the credit goes to Michael Jackson for mixing the instruments, it shud be Quincy Jones.
  
  
• From: Unmai (@ 24.130.233.129) on: Thu Aug 15 18:37:16 EDT 2002
  
  Hard rock, softrock, new age, jazz, R&B are all personal choices. They are independent band. I am talking from an Indian point of view. ARR scores music for a movie. Not for an album. His New Age type songs are repetitive. But his peppy songs are the result of too much experimentation. I don't say he has never given any decent tunes. Enge Enadhu Kavidhai, Kadhal Rojave, Minnale Minnale.. songs are pretty good.
  I believe opening song of KM sound anything but good. You still stick to mixing of music!!. Ok now i give you a scenario. Assume some villager listens on a mono radio set in some remote village. Do you think he is going to see how many scales, what kind of interludes and all!! All the unnikrishnan songs of ARR sound in some way or the other similar. He does experiments only with musical instruments. If you ask me how many memorable songs he has given, i would say 10 or 15 songs. Not more than that. May be 20.
  
  By the way are you talking about just the songs of ARR also his Background Music which i consider the foremost job of an MD. The reason why i am saying he has not grown as an efficient composer
  
  1) He is very slow
  2) I discovered so many of his tunes are copied.
  It may be good. But it is still copied.
  3) He never pays serious attention to BGMs
  4) He never tries to compose songs that can fit the movie
  5) His choice of singers and carelessness about lyrics
  6) He is churning out too many new age songs.
  7) His peppy songs are increasingly boring
  8) His songs rarely merges with movie. Most of his songs look like thrusted into the movie just for the sake.
  
  I am yet to find an ARR fans who accepts atleast one of my valid point. I know you will come out with argument to counter my points. Good luck!!
  
  

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