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the psychology behind "raja & rehman comparison" threads

Topic started by velramanan (@ 202.88.154.169) on Mon Oct 22 06:25:41 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I am sick of finding seemingly endless comparisons between raja & rehman. For once, let us stop talking about comparing raja & rehman. Instead i would like to discuss the real psychology behind "what prompts people to resort to such comparisons. What sort of personalities relish such fights. What might be the internal motives of such comparisons? Are there any sincere people involved in such threads or is it mere cheap ego trips?". This has always been an intriguing riddle to me. Help please....(for heaven's sake please do not start another sickening fight here too.) :-)

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.34.178) on: Sun Feb 10 07:25:29 EST 2002
  
  kanthimathi-
  here are a few obs from me-
  I have never felt threatened listening to presnt day music-I like a few ARR nos .I recently liked songs from 12b and nandha.the present day nos has only shown me the complexity of Raajas calibre .also ,being an avid WCM listener,I STILL think he is the greatest ever in TFM and definitely one of all time best composers on an international level.
  your theory about us liking IR because of age-I am aware many of raajangahm members are quite young.vijay venkatraman ,who runs the fanpage in yahoo is only 25.
  . //Most of us are subconsciously aware of the painful fact that IR is a spent force//
  I dont agree with this-his commercial demand may have gone down-how long can you go on composing same scenario songs again and again and again...
  I am sure he must have composed atleast a 2000 duets and still he was able to come up with nee partha paarvai and manjal poosum from freinds which sounds so fresh. give him a new situation and he delivers the goods like in barathi.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Feb 10 10:40:19 EST 2002
  
  Mr. Observer: I find your theory to be quite interesting. How does one self-identify with one's "idol"? Does this arise because there is a "lack" in the self? (overcompensation for one's diability disassociate from subject-object categories) or is this a case of transference (in a psychological sense) where the fan begins to see the "idol" as the beginning and end of his/her own existence, the last hope? (the nee indri naan illai syndrome).
  And if it indeed a case of superimposing one's desires/aspirations/expectations on the "idol" - then the focus is not the idol, but the self, right?
  I mentioned the "fans" ( the rah-rah- rahja-rahman types) who substitute "presonality" for "proof" (the "music" of IR-ARR) as having "esteem" issues which they need to address. I am glad to see that you hint at something similar with "self-identification" - which is once again, in this case, based on the perception and not reality. The reality is the music. The perception is demi-god status conferred on the producer/composer. It is a crisis of the fan, by the fan, for the fan.
  Would you agree?
  
  The last line of your post: I couldn't agree more! :-)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Feb 10 12:09:44 EST 2002
  
  Mr. Observer: I take it back :-)the last line thing. I agreed to my own misunderstanding of your utterance. I completely misread that statement. Pettiness is US. Can we - en masse - keep the "pettiness" crown, please? There's enough proof to "prove" we deserve it! (somewhat superfluous that, but what the hell!)
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.113) on: Sun Feb 10 12:58:52 EST 2002
  
  the focus is not the idol, but the self, right?
  Yes, that is the whole point.
  My last statement was based on discussions I had with some of the acclaimed artistes in TFM. Their 'vayiththerichchals' are at unbelievable levels and both ARR and IR are guilty of slipping in a timely snide remark againt each other whenever the opportunity presented itself :).
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Sun Feb 10 20:34:32 EST 2002
  
  I think this thread is focussing more on the question on why one needs to compare one's own 'idol' with another, rather than the question of why one needs an idol for him/herself.
  The starter of this thread himself is a dedicated fan of IR and that's not his problem. His question focusses on why there needs to be comparison with another one's idol.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Sun Feb 10 20:37:22 EST 2002
  
  >>>Their 'vayiththerichchals' are at unbelievable levels and both ARR and IR are guilty of slipping in a timely snide remark againt each other whenever the opportunity presented itself<<<
  Well said Mr Observer. I've heard a few myself, though as u said, they were snide remarks and hence no mentioning of names occured.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Feb 10 20:43:51 EST 2002
  
  The "vayitherichals" I have heard from Tamizh Film Insiders (and this is hearsay, so take this with huge sacks of salt) is an all-emcompassing "general" lament on all perceived and real grievances - which cover: "Loss of Respect for Senior Artistes," "Saregama theriyadhavargal yellam isai ammaikiranga"
  "Yenge paaru yellam jaalra thaan - avaravar ghosti avaravar permumaiyai potrugirathu" "Chinna pasagalatam paatu yezhudhuranga," "kaakaa pudikalena onnum nadakamaatkaengiradhu" "Elders and real (?) tamizhians are listening to older music as the current scene does not take them to be part of the picture," "Overa pugazhranga, adhuvum orey padam releaseana piragu," "The whole industry is sordid and sad, yellam smuggling panam!" -
  There that is a reflective Sample of what I have heard Mr. O. There is a certain "vaiththerichchal" aspect to it, but it does not seem all that misplaced to me. I guess, it depends on who one talks to, and who has what axe to grind. But it all certainly shows up TFM for what it is today, and how recovery is a foregone conclusion.
  (I could provide the names for the above paraphrased quotes, but I hesitate to do so as this is a "public" forum, and those quotes were strictly off-record)
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.113) on: Mon Feb 11 04:21:31 EST 2002
  
  Naaz, I have heard/read similar comments too. Continuing... The rejected seniors lamenting over the the perceived "fall" in standards to day is one side. Some samples...for fun Some of the famous senior singers I spoke to had quite a few things to say about their peers/contemporaries like 'avarukku uchchasthAyi ennOda aLavukku varAthu', 'antha pAttu kEtteenganA ennOda kural thAn clear-a kEkkum', 'antha ALukku pAttu maNdayilE Eraraththukku 2 hours Agum' and 'antha pAtta avara pAda vekkaruththukku MSV patta pAdu...' so on :))....KJY had a mouthful to say about SPB in the early-mid 70s, something to the effect of 'nAn dabba pAttellAm pAdamAttEn, atha pAda oruththar irukkAr' . IR had this to say about ARR a few years back, 'vignAnaththu vazhiyAga isai varavaiththukkoLvathu vEra, thAna varrathu vEra', a definite case of IR seeing "green":)). The artistes lead insecure lives with no guarantee of continuing recognition/fame/inflow of income and some day when they are deemed a spent force, they vent their frustration in the direction of their successors :))
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Feb 11 10:10:07 EST 2002
  
  Insecurity is part of the Artiste life (in all the performing arts...I am sure it is also part of the "scientist" life for grants, prizes, recognition etc.) Some are able to handle it better than others. Some singers do not want to be part of the "rat-race" and do their thing with dignity and withdraw from name-calling and "no.1" politics. It is a sign of confidence in their "art" which makes them so. But the reluctance of certain established singers of yesteryears to sing for MDs who don't have any formal grounding in music - but are all the rage because of current trends - is one way of keeping their dignity. I have attended a few recordings TFMs pre-eminent MDs - and was quite frankly appalled by how they spoke to a few singers...One singer (whose family is part of TFM history) was instructed thus: "Unga appa madhiri Vaayai pulandhu loud-speaker madhiri yellam paada vandaam, yenna sariya?" I was, quite frankly, astonished by the statement. The MD is considered a genius - but his words to the singer were a sign of his own ego and self-importance. This is perhaps an isolated incident...but some artistes don't want to deal with this sort of humiliation just to be part of the TFM scene. They'd rather keep their dignity and sense of worth intact.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Mon Feb 11 17:13:51 EST 2002
  
  here is a re-post of what i posted initially on this topic...
  
  This is what is called a classic case of "indirect judgment" .
  
  Like all people in the world. you belive your judgement is based on sound body and mind! You believe you have analyzed most factors weighed them with the best of your intelligence and after careful delibration of all factors you have passed a judgement.
  
  The first gut reaction when someone disagrees with you is the offense taken at the insult to your judgement by someone disagreeing with it.
  
  Since you believe his decision making parameters and background is similar to yours..you automatically think he/she has missed some fundametal points in coming to the judgement and its upto you to expose his ignorance in a polite or vehement way depeniding on your character.
  
  If you had intensly thought about your decision making practise and the thoughts are so inherent of your nature that you think its second nature that "IR is better than ARR" "gavaskar better than srikkanth" " kamal better than rajini" "tendulkar better than ganguly".
  
  You practically think the other person is illitrate in assuming the contrary.
  
  I strongly believe "Too much conviction is ignorance in itself"
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Mon Feb 11 17:20:42 EST 2002
  
  Naaz,
  
  As to your allusion on how one knows what the celebrities actually think/do etc...
  
  well what i said about them (IR/ARR) feeling/having a competitive vibe or subconcious sense of being compared etc..
  
  well its not just them everyone has it.. we call it "peer" pressure..
  
  its simple students get upset when their parents compare them with higher ranked students
  
  if you are sports man trying to make it into a team.. and someone who you perceive to be equal/inferior to you makes it before you.. thats like a direct judgement passed on not only you but your opinion on the other person also...
  
  IR/ARR maybe good musicians and their music knowledge might be way better than an average human being... but their psyche neednt be... they are as much vulnerable to a normal mans emotions as joe next door. you'd be the one who r elavating them to a "demi-god" status if you say they dont have such emotions..
  
  well they themselves have gone one record saying they dont read tabloid rumors/reports about them.. I infer from that ..that it affects them.. maybe their confidence and trust in themselves and thats why they prefer not to see it...
  
  its quite common why should these 2 be exceptions..
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.113) on: Tue Feb 12 04:06:42 EST 2002
  
  Naaz,....and the singer you are referring to is reduced to singing his father's old hits on stage these days, right ???? What other recordings have u been to ?
  
  

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