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the psychology behind "raja & rehman comparison" threads

Topic started by velramanan (@ 202.88.154.169) on Mon Oct 22 06:25:41 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I am sick of finding seemingly endless comparisons between raja & rehman. For once, let us stop talking about comparing raja & rehman. Instead i would like to discuss the real psychology behind "what prompts people to resort to such comparisons. What sort of personalities relish such fights. What might be the internal motives of such comparisons? Are there any sincere people involved in such threads or is it mere cheap ego trips?". This has always been an intriguing riddle to me. Help please....(for heaven's sake please do not start another sickening fight here too.) :-)

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Feb 7 18:47:46 EST 2002
  
  Bharath,
  The point I was making was this: IR & ARR are above such imaginary pettiness. Of course, they are working and are doing what they do best. It is the fans who are caught up in the "personality" wars. There is more fighting than "constructive" appreciation of both the MDs output in all the sundry threads that are devoted to them. It is all about "No.1" - and seldom about how their music moves us. All so pointless and malignant.
  
  
• From: Sombu Nilagriesar (@ 64.105.35.113) on: Thu Feb 7 19:47:35 EST 2002
  
  RangA,
  The same unchecked ego is the reason for your post too. And it is biased too.
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 216.65.221.154) on: Thu Feb 7 20:09:05 EST 2002
  
  Mr Sombu,
  It looks like attacking the debater is the norm here than attacking the debate and you would get the special prize for that. Well, let us not go into who has more unchecked ego or who is the most biased. All I am saying without any moral/ethical finger pointing is the cause of why raja/rahman comparison happens. This is the free time with free access and ego and bias which creates another version of 'thiNNai pEchu' or 'kuttichuvar iLainyar manRam'.
  See how many posts are there in each thread on Sundays and you will know that there is more discussions during working hours than otherwise.
  It hurts to accept it but that is the truth.
  Whether I am also one more vetti or not does not add any value to my argument in any direction.
  
  
• From: viveka (@ 203.199.55.24) on: Fri Feb 8 07:53:52 EST 2002
  
  I think Tamilians have a very deep rooted feudal culture. Our identity is closely linked to the clan we belong to - and we will give our lives for the clan. I know a 'thevar' family whose members are adressed as maharaja and maharani by their villagers even today.
  
  That is at the root of all the idolizing and hero-worship that goes on. I guess in the modern world, when the old feudal lords have given way to matinee idols and politicians, we have shifted our loyalties - and skirmishes between feudal clans still happen! In fact, it is the raison d'etre for us!
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Fri Feb 8 11:57:22 EST 2002
  
  viveka,
  how about the fact that alot of people indulging in these arr-ir feuds are not Tamils?
  I agree with you, but doesn't the human race as a whole have a deep rooted feudal culture?
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Fri Feb 8 13:20:03 EST 2002
  
  now children.. here is a lesson on what hipocracy means..
  
  RangA now:
  //"It looks like attacking the debater is the norm here than attacking the debate"//
  
  RangA Then:
  
  //"The american corporates pay high dollars for the easy work these software guys are doing. And these guys have plenty of free time, free unlimited internet access, unchecked ego, fancy theories that nobody will listen to and a server that can hold all their biased opinions. Those are all the real reasons. Let there be anything taken away from these guys, you would not see any core discussing it, whether hard or soft."//
  
  RangA did a AgnaR I suppose...
  
  how about this.. there are many here who waste time for the sake of timepass.. but here is one guy who wastes time calling others as timewasters..
  
  soon u will see him jumping into DF's and doing what not...
  
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Fri Feb 8 13:28:19 EST 2002
  
  //"The point I was making was this: IR & ARR are above such imaginary pettiness"//
  
  well.. i wouldnt call competition pettiness.. in cricket there will be captains who say that they dont read papers and dont get bothered about critisism and comments but the truth is they do..
  
  same way ARR knows that he was/is/will be compared to IR. and vice versa..
  
  it is quite a natural reaction for them to
  1)not comment at all
  2)say they are above such things
  3)say such things dont bother them
  
  but the truth is.. they comment privately (to themselves atleast) ..no is above such things and such things do bother them...
  
  saying the usual things about doing it for the love of the work.. and "not bothered etc.." are very typical and partly true..
  
  but a sense of competition does prevail otherwise half the motivation simply is gone...
  
  now that is where i quibble with IR... i feel he is less of a MD now than he was before because he "may" be afraid that people would (mis)construe him to be competing with ARR.. and he doesnt want that..
  
  this makes him think twice about certain changes/experiments he wud have done otherwise w/o a thought...
  
  I wud laugh at ARR if he said he doesnt read papers and that comparisons with IR doesnt bother him.. same with IR..and ARR has affected IR in quite a big way...
  
  
• From: NJ-Vaasi (@ 66.95.178.194) on: Fri Feb 8 15:44:52 EST 2002
  
  Great discussion thread. Good start VelRamanan
  Nice to read!
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Fri Feb 8 16:13:08 EST 2002
  
  Competition, I agree, is healthy. But one might also want to consider this: How much of this "competition" is a media-spin? How much of it manufactured to keep "constituents" (in this case, the rasigar mandrams) happy and committed? And how much of it really leads to false notions of superiority and oneupmanship?
  If the legacy of the MGR-Sivaji, Kamal-Rajini, Bhagyaraj-Bharatiraja (notice how it is all about men? Could that tell such something about "male" psychosis?) shows/tells us anything - it is this:
  The parallel lines of competition seldom intersect. And after a few years of fuelling the fires of rivalry and supremacy, the paralellism vanishes - and age catches up. Mortality, finally kicks in - and the whole thing begins to look hopelessly juvenile in hindsight.
  
  PS: I don't know about the inner thoughts and words of "celebrities". But I am surprised to see that many posters here have such a "clairvoyance". Being "intuitive" is also conveniently ducks the requirement/disclosure of sources. "Oh I am sure in IR says this and ARR says that....in my heart I know they talk about it." Well, how does one even being to address these conclusions that spring so readily from the"heart"? Now, that's another psychological chapter altogether.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Fri Feb 8 16:13:55 EST 2002
  
  last line - being should read "begin" sorry about the typo.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Sat Feb 9 10:56:48 EST 2002
  
  "PS: I don't know about the inner thoughts and words of "celebrities"."
  Well said Naaz. So u don't know if they are indeed beyond such pettiness either.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Feb 9 13:28:34 EST 2002
  
  What I know is what I read - and what is "Sourced". So far I am yet to see any "authorised" slamming on the part of IR against ARR and vice versa. If you have any links where the two MDs are "quoted" please pass them along.
  I also think that both of the MDs are aware of each other's genius. Their songs are out there for everyone (including their creators) to hear and judge for themselves. And as far as I am concerned, that should be the enough to generate a constructive discussion. How do their "inner" thoughts affect our listening pleasure?? And should they??
  
  
• From: arun_uk (@ 195.99.125.204) on: Sat Feb 9 14:33:29 EST 2002
  
  Naaz
  
  Always liked your posts. Some in this thread are the best. I am fully with you when you say that IR and ARR are above all imaginary pettiness. As regards your idea of 'constructive discussion' I'm afraid you will not find many 'takers' around here.
  
  -regards
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Feb 9 19:04:56 EST 2002
  
  Hi Arun -
  Thanks a bunch for those kind words. Why is it difficult to have a thought-provoking, cerebral exchange in these threads? TFM discussions are good to fill in instant "memory" gaps...But the exhange of ideas, the appreciation of art/istes and issues always hits that predictable slippery slope of celebrity fan-mail. There are a few informed, serious and articulate posters here - but they leave quickly once they figure out that this is (mostly) a self-indulgent cul-de-sac of puffery and personality cults. And that's really a shame.
  
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Sat Feb 9 20:01:59 EST 2002
  
  Naaz, their inner thoughts are not gonna affect our listening pleasure, but Bharath's 'guess' that they are bothered about what's on the papers is as a good a guess of his as is ours that they are NOT bothered about what's on the papers.
  There have been plenty of constructive posts in this thread if you bother to go back a few pages to have a quick look.
  What I don't find at all constructive is your repeated posts in various threads lamenting your disappointment with the quality of posts and posters in this forum.
  And now I am deviating from the topic, and knowing you well from past experience, I can savely predict that if I let this continue you'll go on and on in a long tedious flowery worded verbal battle that will prove to me nothing which I don't already know.
  So having said my piece on this matter, I'll be leaving it at that.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Feb 9 22:39:35 EST 2002
  
  Thanks, WhyNot. I really enjoyed your post. It was illuminating as usual.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Sun Feb 10 01:04:49 EST 2002
  
  I'm glad to be of service Naaz. :-))
  
  
• From: kanthimathi (@ 203.199.55.24) on: Sun Feb 10 03:05:55 EST 2002
  
  I can see the main thread has, like a great river, given rise to many tributory ideas. But honsetly, I think there has to be some deep rooted psychosis or neurosis behind the obsession for IR vs. ARR in this forum. I was a very frequent visitor during 2000 - and even participated in great spirit in one of the discusiions (me on IR side:)). I was quite thrown to see that it still seems to be the only hot topic here, even in 2002!!
  
  Now that I am here, I have another theory. I guess it is actually a struggle among all of us between the past and present. I guess most of us have grown up listening to IR, and believing he is the greatest, and here comes another, who is demanding for the same space. Most of us are subconsciously aware of the painful fact that IR is a spent force, and he has to move away for the avalanche of new talent. It happens, it is life, but that also makes us aware of another painful fact - that we are also getting old. Our models and paradigms are changing, and we cannot do anything about it. And a lot of us are resisting it - we are holding on to our pasts, and trying to put ourselves in the way of the present that is overtaking and overwhelming us.
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.113) on: Sun Feb 10 05:51:03 EST 2002
  
  The psychology is pretty similar to the state of mind which likes to lable an occurance/event/speech/whatever as right or wrong and not look at it without the intrusion of personal stakes. Here, I am not talking about preferences/tastes but the deep sense of self-identification with one's idol. The idol's rival therefore represents a threat to the individual's musical identity and hence all the vitriol. The other reason is quite simply the refusal to wean oneself away from the musical conditioning, thereby falling into the 'expectation rut'. This
  resistance to anything different from what one has been exposed to is a definite reason for the 'fights'.
  w.r.t. to the pettiness, some of our favourite artistes' pettiness can put to shame even the most petty amongst us :).
  
  

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