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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Anbe sivam (@ 206.102.161.11) on: Thu Sep 25 11:23:11 EDT 2003
  
  Mylitha,
  
  Its all started with Vandichakram, where there was a Silk smitha song.(MD Shankar Ganesh). From that time onwards, on all movies there will be either one song of Silk or Anuraadhaa. Obviously you can't score songs without munagal for that situations.
  
  Later on Heroines themselve assumed Silk roles and gave one song like that. Sakala Kala Vallavan was like a transition point in which both Silk and Heroine(Ambika) has one for their share.
  
  Could IR avoided this? Yes with the command he had in Industry. Had he supported such songs? I don't think so. Had he put up a fight for stopping this vulgaraity? No.
  
  Looks like he took it as a part of profession. Slowly, the craze for such song sequences reduced. So now there are no mukkal munagal songs.
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.234.70) on: Thu Sep 25 13:45:26 EDT 2003
  
  i find,IR being a rural guy, giving very gawdy and vulgar sounds in these kinds of songs,whereas ARR has been much more sophisticated in his approach towards such songs.......IR's glamour songs are indeed a big turn off.........
  
  
• From: Anbe sivam (@ 206.102.161.11) on: Thu Sep 25 14:45:39 EDT 2003
  
  MADDY,
  
  ARR, due to his salary, do not end up with a cheap director for all these. How many times, he has been given situation to tune such a song.
  
  Very few. On the other hand IR catered to all levels of directors and ended up mukkal munagal situations and songs.
  
  
• From: Dude (@ 131.193.154.14) on: Thu Sep 25 17:02:58 EDT 2003
  
  kupps:"If you see IR's attitude is he sees such a request as yet an another scene not more than that. He doesn't bother about the morality point and all. Remember after turning into so much spiritual he willingly scored for the movie KadavuL (which is a farce, a publicity stunt in the name of atheism)."
  
  Then how come everyone claims that IR rejected 'Hey Ram' initially because he felt that the movie was anit-gandhi. Kupps, if your statement is to be accepted, then IR should have no qualms about doing any kind of movie. In fact, Kamal had employed this 'minute-a-page' technique script writing techinique. The movie, obviously not anti-Gandhi in any way, was an exact replica of the script. IR was not a first choice for even Kamal, it was only because of his tiff with L.Subramaniam, kamal chose IR as a replacement. And IR, as usual grabbed whatever film that came his way...
  
  When IR was at his peak, he accepted whatever movie that came across. But of late (from around 1991-92) a lot of directors like Mani, Bharathiraja, Balachander, shifted their loyalty to ARR. After that movies were hard to come by for IR. But hardcore fans claim that IR started to become choosy about the scripts, thats why he is not doing lot of movies now-a-days. They can only fool themseleves with these claims...
  
  End big digression :-)
  
  
  Anbe sivam: "Its all started with Vandichakram, where there was a Silk smitha song.(MD Shankar Ganesh). From that time onwards, on all movies there will be either one song of Silk or Anuraadhaa. Obviously you can't score songs without munagal for that situations."
  
  You make me laugh. Did you really mean that statement? Who says you cant score songs withought munagal for that situations... You mean to say that IR has such a limited creativity that he has to resort to such methods??? And that too copy something like this from MDs like Shankar Ganesh???
  
  Have you listened to the 'sambo sambo' song in Pudhiya mugham? 'rukkumani' in Roja? 'Andha arabi kadaloram'-Bombay??? Listen to the background music in Boys , the scene where the prostitute appears.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 12.210.95.2) on: Thu Sep 25 19:42:09 EDT 2003
  
  Dude,
  For a fact based episode of Hey ram, from Raaja's own words, please read his memoirs of budapest at www.raajangahm.com
  
  There are instances Raaja rejecting many a movie offers that came his way eg. Nammavar, people can give more examples probably. His average of movies is 25 till 1995(source: www.raajangahm.com) and 11 after that.
  
  I had earlier answered all your queries based on some facts and some analysis of my own as to why IR had accepted such movies. Regarding quality of music I have noticed that most his movies have atleast one great/good song, though this is my opinion a lot people will agree with this. This gives a count of atleast 850 great songs. This is besides the so-called mass songs and crappy songs which were huge hits. This is the kind of quality we are talking about. Its consistency. Among these you can pick 400 movies with atleast 2 good songs. That makes it 850+400=1250 songs. I know many of his movies in Telugu having all 95%, good to great, songs. I think Kupps' numbers are quite accurate.
  
  If you put the vulgar sounds aside the so called called vulgar songs do have good music and tunes.
  They can hardly be ignored or brushed away. Its like saying that I won't listen to Mukabala because it has reused beats, I will still listen to it for its original contribution.
  
  One last thing I only speak for myself and don't generalize my post for all IR fans.
  
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Thu Sep 25 20:53:51 EDT 2003
  
  Maddy
  Here is ARR's best sophisticated albums!!!!!.
  Uzhavan,
  Arasan,
  Pavithra,
  Pudiyamannarhal,
  Vandicholai chinna rasu,
  Love birds,
  Alli arjuna,
  Parthale paravasam,
  Udaya,
  Parasuram,
  Baba,
  Kadal virus,
  Kannathil muthamittal.
  Thenali,
  Indra.
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ 203.117.10.18) on: Thu Sep 25 22:13:44 EDT 2003
  
  hehe...sophisticated albums for his sophisticated fans.
  
  
• From: BeN (@ 52.128.30.11) on: Thu Sep 25 22:50:23 EDT 2003
  
  of course ambleen...not for outdated people like you....hehehe :-)
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ 203.117.10.18) on: Thu Sep 25 23:49:37 EDT 2003
  
  Ben-Hur,
  
  pls control ur vaitherruchal.
  i understand wat u & ur platoon r gg thru'.
  i dun blame u guys. not having a decent listenable album for so many years is not easy to swallow.
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Thu Sep 25 23:57:40 EDT 2003
  
  Haha
  
  I like desperate guys like this. BeN please avoid this helpless poor soul.
  
  He knows all his invectives did not work out so he is trying to have his 2 minute joy by saying - "haha u guys did not enjoy any arr album... paavam"
  
  This reminds me of something kids do. When a kid watches another kid eat chocolate, he will try to put down the other kid's joy by saying "i know that chocolate sucks. It is so bad.. u are not enjoying it"
  
  Haha. funny to believe that the world is full of "colorful" people.
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ 203.117.10.18) on: Fri Sep 26 00:03:45 EDT 2003
  
  feeling is mutual.
  
  but there is a difference to creating hype, calling almost ever release as SUPERB, SUPER, BEST OF THE YEAR, MY NEPHEW WAS HUMMING TO THAT MUSIC, ETC and not forgetting being a hypocryte.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 203.199.209.101) on: Fri Sep 26 01:02:36 EDT 2003
  
  >>>>>>>>>>>
  IR rejected 'Hey Ram' initially because he felt that the movie was anit-gandhi
  >>>>>>>>>>>
  
  Initially IR rejected 'Hey Ram' NOT because it was anti-gandhi but because he was not inclined to work as a BGM MD for a movie where songs were already composed by someone else.
  
  IR himself told this in an interview to suntv during Hey Ram release (the one in which he said the famous appaLam oorugaai).
  
  Btw is that the movie anti-gandhi?
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Fri Sep 26 01:13:42 EDT 2003
  
  ambleen
  
  accepted ur point that ARR fans have been outrageously worshipful of every release and have called albums like KV album of year and all that. I hate those guys that overhype insensibly.
  
  My opinion is more moderate. Udaya was good, parasuram and KV were crap, Boys was excellent. This is my opinion.
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.217.15) on: Fri Sep 26 03:59:43 EDT 2003
  
  mr. Ambleen it is true that my 4-month old nephew does not eat or sleep without listening to "Girlfriend" song........for me:
  UDAYA- crap(but for rehnuma)
  KV- dumb
  parasuram- fail grade
  
  but BOYS was different and TEHZEEB also looks awesome..........
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 203.197.141.34) on: Fri Sep 26 04:53:02 EDT 2003
  
  Hi Frens,
  
  Just an info.
  Parasuram was not composed by ARR, it was done by Praveen mani
  
  Out of the 6 songs in Udhaya 3 were given by ARR that too in 1999 and the remaning were composed by PM.
  
  
  One more request please don’t compare rehmann with IR….
  IR…… Is the God Of Music!!!!
  
  Rehmann is an Excellent MD that’s it!!!
  
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Sat Sep 27 01:54:06 EDT 2003
  
  Vijay,
  You will be a gr8 manager: Delegation of Authority.. (or should i say Delegation of Responsibility)
  
  
• From: Dude (@ 12.248.178.219) on: Sat Sep 27 05:03:29 EDT 2003
  
  i think the discussion was going along fine until this person ambleem came along. I always thought ambleen posted something worthwile/interesting. but looks like ambleen is just guy who posts for posting sake...
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.233.41) on: Sat Sep 27 05:50:05 EDT 2003
  
  vijay u forgot to add IMO-in my opinion........ IMO IR is nuthin but crap for me after Nadodi thendral in 1992.......... ARR is the best.......
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.132.220) on: Sat Sep 27 06:46:49 EDT 2003
  
  DOES ANY ONE HAV AN YARDSTICK TO DETERMINE WHAT IS VULGAR AND WHAT NOT IS? JUS THINKING ABT IT ......
  when u can show the navel portion soembody.. says that is glamour but soemone else may say 'it is the symbol of motherhood hence it shudnt be portrayed in movies and playing with tops on it is vulgarity' i wud say it was depicting intimate love betn the lovers in EDKL and a normal tease scene in chinnakounder... but i may think frying omlettes over that is vulgarity someone else might enjoy that too.
  
  so do we hav a yardstick to judge the songs of IR where they had mukkal munangal sounds. there is no point in safegaurding IR that producers wanted it so he did as they asked for. knowing the command he had over the industry, arguing like is height of stupidity. but IMO IR never hav done anything which is against his conscience. he shud hav really enjoyed composing those songs and wudnt hav found any vulgarity in them as iam not finding any.....those were excellent erotic songs composed by him supported by SJ and SPB.
  
  another thing to be noticed is most of the songs which hav 'mukkal munangal' were songs in which the female tries to seduce the male. but the subtler erotic songs of lovemaking didnt hav any of those sounds.
  
  V,
  
  i read ur post. if i were the one to convert u into anti-IR.... iam happy abt it.
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.132.220) on: Sat Sep 27 07:09:17 EDT 2003
  
  kupps,
  
  regarding the movie kadavul i dont accept ur view. its not anything to do with morality at all. its any persons birth right to belive and not belive in gods exsistence. as i happen to be one who knows there is no god [ watch.. i dont belive that there is no god, i know that there is no god] who doesnt hav any problem in accepting people who hav belief in god. unless they provoke me to pray or belive in god i jus go along with my existence.
  it shud be similar for IR that he doesnt care whether the movie is atheist or theist movie unless the director advocates him to become an atheist then only he shud compose songs for the movie.
  it very simple when we know something we dont go into preaching. IR knows there is god. i know there is no god. we both hav no problems betn us.
  the problem makers are those who belive in something, and if something is said against their belief that they get shaken and create and questioning morality.
  
  regarding movies like 'kadavul' if thiestic movies r not made then there is no necessity for making movies like kadavul at all. both camps are belivers who fight betn each other while we enjoy our lives without making any fuss abt it.
  
  

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