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dhooL.com

Topic started by bb (@ 24.4.254.104) on Tue Feb 20 03:21:22 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi! We've made a major addition to newtfmpage, and that is a big song bank. Dhool features thousands of songs for your listening pleasure. This site is a part of the newtfmpage.com - swara.com group. Together with newtfmpage, we wish to make this the best place to listen to tamil film songs online and know about tamil film music. Our collection includes old, new, famous, rare and unheard of songs. We are still fine tuning and fixing the database errors, so please bear with us. We value your feedback, and this will help us build the site better. Please post your comments below or mail to comments@newtfmpage.com.
This work was done by us (bb and RR) with MS and swara.com ravi.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Tue Sep 23 10:26:26 EDT 2003
  
  mythila
  
  good list of gowri manohari songs.
  
  thanks
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.26.97) on: Tue Sep 23 11:08:59 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz:
  
  I think we have already had a discussion on this issue in a thread which tried listing chitra's numbers. I remember you pointing out a few mistakes of KSC in the song "mari mari" and went on to extend your theory of regular mispronunciation for the rest of her songs, which I found unjustified. And I am increasingly made to believe it is really difficult to please "purists" when it comes to performing an art, be it singing or writing or any other.
  
  First of all, the word diction can, not only refer to the choice of words but also to the clarity in enunciation and I personally find no error in the way bb has used it in the sentence. To me, this aspect of yours, reflects more on your general attitude towards anything good that you come across ( or bad as you may opine).
  
  swargam is a sanskrit word. There has earlier been an exchange of opinions in this regard between aruL and a few others including yours truly, about why singers sometimes do not pronounce some of the words ( e.g chondham is usually sung as sondham) as they are required by the grammar books, even if they knew the exact pronunciation. One reason attributed was the enhancement of melody. If a sanskrit word has to be used in tamil, you have two options:
  
  (1) use it as it is - eg. this song
  (2) tamil-ize the word - chorkam and use it.
  
  For a purist like you, the usage of the sanskrit word itself must be a serious flaw. In such a case, you would hardly have to pan the singers who are delivering the words as the lyricist gives them. It is a pity that established artists like KJY, KSC have to be accused of a shoddy attitude towards tamil when they really have put good effort to improve their "diction". For that matter, can you tell me ONE singer who has sung ALL his / her songs without any pronunciation errors ?
  
  I bet you sure cannot. And if pronunciation standards set by grammarians are to be followed meticulously, every song would be a nighmare to sing, leave alone the nightmares that we come across in the name of songs. (kaNNula viLakkeNNaiyai vittu thEdura gOShtingaLai oNNum seyya mudiyaadhu)
  
  In this regard, I appreciate HJ for introducing a completely new trend where the singers are required to sing neither in tamil nor in english but in some alien language (ohasiyaanaa....vaahiyaanaa / ullaahi ullahi laahi / arigori bonsayi) which has helped singers to escape the swords of linguistic purists :-)
  
  
• From: Saravanan (@ 195.229.241.235) on: Tue Sep 23 11:18:24 EDT 2003
  
  NagaS,
  
  Yes, 'Enna samayalo' (in the same style as Manipoor Maamiyaar's 'samayal paadam') was written by IR himself.'Punchai undu nanchai undu' was written by Pulamaipithan, while 'Idhazhil kathai ezhuthum neramidhu' was by Muthulingam. I am not sure about the other songs of UMT.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Tue Sep 23 11:45:23 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz
  Your search for answers as to why VJ is never as popular (among the hypocritical 'mass' audience) as a Janaki or Chitra is giving way to a frustration that's now bordering on the rude.
  
  Appreciation is shaped by individual expectations, and if those expectations place attributes other than pronunciation and technical finesse as central to listening pleasure, can't you let that pass? It's another matter whether that appreciation has quite the cognitive maturity that you possess, but this is always going to be in the realm of subjectivity.
  
  I appreciate your honesty and your devotion to the cause of the spoken thamizh word, but I think it's about time you cease these petulant fits that just don't tolerate a deviant worldview from yours. If it makes me a hypocrite to say that I enjoy Chitra's songs than VJs (blasphemy!), and KJY than TMS, let me line up in front.
  
  
• From: Babu (@ 167.68.1.66) on: Tue Sep 23 12:16:35 EDT 2003
  
  Exactly Naaz! Well said. This has been my complaint about KSC and KJY always, though the voice is absolutely amazing.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.201.80.47) on: Tue Sep 23 12:25:06 EDT 2003
  
  Kannaa Varuvaayaa has enough special things in it for me to rank it as a favorite. The delayed effect created in the middle of the song with the repeated Kannaa...Kannaa...sans music delivers the longing better than any preconceived lyrical or musical quirk could have. Also, the tabla assumes a prominent role in this song adding texture and melancholy compared to most IR tunes where the tabla is a drone. The violin too regains the emotional stature it had in IR's repertoire during the "Raajapaarvai" days.
  
  Whenever I listen to this I'm reminded of another KJY/IR combo, "Ennathaan Sugamoa Nenjilae" from MaappiLLai. While the latter was less classical, it was enjoyable as well.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Tue Sep 23 12:47:07 EDT 2003
  
  Udhaya you are probably referring to "Muthamizh kaviye varuga" by KJY/Chithra. "Enna dhaan sugamo" is sung by SPB. Both are pretty good ones.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.201.80.47) on: Tue Sep 23 12:53:19 EDT 2003
  
  Vijay,
  Thanks for the correction. I was thinking of "Ennadhaan sugamoa" but I forgot it was SPB. It could've easily been a KJY song that my memory filed it as such I think.
  
  
• From: senty (@ 167.213.190.133) on: Tue Sep 23 13:36:51 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz,
  great posting.none of the mistakes you pointed out would have arised for a casual listener.one has to listen real carefully to know them.
  
  swargam is definitely malayalam :).
  
  "vidindhalum or nedunalum?" after lot of encores i came to the conclusion that it is vidindhalum cause there is a clear "dh" in the word.
  
  but i guess these are mineute black spots in otherwise a great song.So guess we should ignore them and indulge in this otherwise pleasurable song.
  
  
  udhaya,
  u r right the longing is beautifully expressed in those extended kanna's.the words seem to rise from bottom to top and linger at the top for a while... "kannaaaaa" "maalaaai" "malar choolaai".And the longing feeling is enhanched by the beautiful chorus.
  
  because it is a song on krishna by meera.. u can notice meera's "tumbura kind of instrument"(dont know the name) instrument on the prelude and interludes.
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Sep 23 13:42:49 EDT 2003
  
  Mythila -
  
  Creative and Linguistic Licence is not an infinite concept. It, to be meaningful, still has to adhere finite notions and rules of clarity, nativity and ethos. When you sing a tamizh song ( glad to hear that you are a singer yourself) don't sing it like it is a song in your mother-tongue (if it isn't tamizh, that is) - sing it in a way that enhances the language and its riches in the eyes and ears of the native speakers. This is the only requisite. (of course, discerning native speakers/listeners.)
  
  MS-
  
  I have to disagree (slightly). Diction always belongs to the author (or the author's "pronunciation" for instance, if Vaali had to read Kanna Varuvaya, you could say that his expression was appropriate/commensurate with HIS "diction" . Singers, not being authors/poets, cannot be complimented for their diction. They can be appraised for their "pronunciation" of the Poet's "diction" or "style.") Hence, for bb to suggest that "Chitra's diction is superb" is misleading, as the diction does not belong to Chitra. "Diction" as a word falls in the category of the "spoken" (hence pronunciation) and "written" (hence style) word. Singing is neither spoken nor written - and usually, in the case of film music, is not the work of the "singer." It is a manner of "speaking" (on the page, or in front of the microphone) and the choice of "words." It has nothing to do with the art of "singing."
  Of course, you may use it the way you choose, as that is your prerogative, even if the usage is wrong.
  
  Suresh -
  
  Here's what I find really hilarious: To say that somebody consistently "malayalamises" tamizh songs, is,apparently, symptomatic of my "frustration" bubbling up because VJ is not popular! How insightful.
  Your phrase "Deviant worldview" would fit this overdetermination / interpretation of yours. I am not seeking answers to VJs lack of popularity - all the answers I seek to define my own sense of appreciation and artistry are present in her singing. Finders keepers, and I am happy in that selfishness.
  I have nothing to more to add except - if you like KSC and KJY over TMS and VJ - so be it (no need to line up in the front, you are on the guest list! :-)). At least, now I know where you are coming from - musically and geographically. And I also know what qualifies as "superb" around here - even if that word is used loosely and falsely.
  
  Babu -
  
  Thanks! Good to know that my "rude" rings "right" in some ears here.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.26.46) on: Tue Sep 23 14:20:08 EDT 2003
  
  "Of course, you may use it the way you choose, as that is your prerogative, even if the usage is wrong. "
  
  Wow..Thanks, but I chose to use it the way webster suggested I should.
  
  http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=diction
  
  The meanings listed are:
  
  1. Choice and use of words in speech or writing.
  2. Degree of clarity and distinctness of pronunciation in speech or "singing"; enunciation.
  
  If this is not aceptable, I am sure you are writing your own dictionary :-) It reminds me of (the story of )an old man who kept a blue book by redefining words ( 9th grade accompanying text)..and as u put it, if it was his way with life and language and why would I question that ?
  
  
• From: ossi mathupo (@ 203.113.34.239) on: Tue Sep 23 14:44:49 EDT 2003
  
  infact few tamilians I know call singing as "reading", pAtu nalA padicharunga thane solluvanga!
  ayutha ezuthu (therefore )
  as per nazz dict ...bb is correct
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Sep 23 14:47:10 EDT 2003
  
  MS -
  
  I don't want to take coals to newcastle (or ladoos to thirupathi) - but -
  
  If I were writing my own dictionary, then that would resemble my familiarity with OED, which has refined and honed my own usage of words:
  
  "Diction: A person's manner of uttering or pronouncing words." (I doubt Vaali wrote "paarkire" or "nadhi orum" or "vandhanal sundharavalli" (all chinna la, courtesy the singer.) If he had to read his song, I am sure we will hear the "n" "ra" and "naL" "vaLLi") That's my point.
  
  (None of the provided example refer to singers- even in the middle english annotated sourcing.)
  
  I also checked your link - Please look at all the examples provided (Burke, Crabb, De Quincey etc) all refer to Oratory (written and delivered by the AUTHOR.) Clarity, Accuracy, Discursive Variety - are mentioned as components (cf. my list of errors in the original post) - but it still pertains to the Author and her/his Spoken word.
  
  Selective references do a disservice to an honest discussion.
  
  

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