Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Oct 20 13:44:33 EDT 2000
  
  krishan, the "his" is not ir
  ..who i am to tell about ir's loss :)
  
  i meant each and every fan.
  
  
• From: Observer (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Fri Oct 20 13:45:54 EDT 2000
  
  Fan, Dorai, Trend, satishv and other ARR fans writing:
  
  You all want to shout that IR is down and out because you all want ARR to be noticed. If that is your wish, go out and do something productive for ARR. Don't try to trash a genius composer's(IR's) talent saying that he has attitude, ego blah blah.
  
  In this TFM page, I have seen the admin or the newtfmpage patrons talking on behalf of TFM page saying that this is a very decent forum, no mud-slinging, no personal attacks etc, just talk music blah blah. But why is that TFM page, Udhaya and the other TFM page pisthas are keeping quiet allowing personal attacks on the Maestro? Is it because Mr.Srikanth('fan' or ARR fan ) is writing about Raja's attitude and ego and newtfmpage admin is playing it cool?
  
  This topic is a waste of time. There is just mud-slinging going on here.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Oct 20 13:51:33 EDT 2000
  
  Observer :)))) enna kanume parthen.
  
  i did not write anything degrading about anyone.
  infact i have been backing ir for his talents,
  please Observe properly.
  
  ok now it time to bash me please be my guest . Even arr is not spared here, who is srikanth.
  
  
  
  
• From: Observer (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Fri Oct 20 14:07:17 EDT 2000
  
  Now Now, Mr.fan, please do not divert the topic saying that ARR bashing was going on here.
  
  It is IR who is being bashed and also I did observe that you are turning plates :-).
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Oct 20 14:13:07 EDT 2000
  
  Nop, observer, you are changing plates on me, I DID NOT BASH OR TRASH OR SPEAK BAD ABOUT ANYONE, BE IT IR OR ARR. thats all i told you.
  
  I dont know about others. go ahead and check with them. You used my name i answered to you thats all. I will not answer you again, will assume that you dont observe properly.
  
  
• From: observer (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Fri Oct 20 14:15:19 EDT 2000
  
  Enna fan thalaivare
  
  Ippadi sonna sariyaaga irukkuma?
  kuzhandhaiya kiLLivittu thottilum aattaareengala...
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Oct 20 14:26:56 EDT 2000
  
  Observer,
  
  I don't think anyone is shouting.We are just trying to analyze IR's work calmly and impersonally work over the past few years and the factors affecting his work.
  
  So that to a certain extent,we can predict whether IR is going to stage a comeback taking everything in his stride very objectively.
  
  I agree he has done extraordinary work in the past.I sincerely want to know if he can recreate that magic when his music was universally accepted(not like only you or me talking about how good is "nirpathuvae").
  
  I'm first of all TFM fan and then ARR fan.I would be more happy TFM's quality gets enhanced and universally everyone acknowledges that.For that we need IR too.We need to understand the obstacles he is facing.
  
  How much of it is attributed to external facors and how much to his consistent creative flow?
  
  I'm sure everyone understands that there is no mud-slinging here.I have a feeling we are going towards something concrete here.
  
  I think you haven't considered carefully what we have been discussing about.
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: Observer (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Fri Oct 20 14:44:04 EDT 2000
  
  Trend
  
  IMO, IR's work is not reduced because of his personal problems. We all know that IR is not active in the market anymore. He does music for tamil films occasionally. And we all know that ARR, Deva and SAR are ruling the market. So, what is the point in talking about IR's downfall, attitude, ego etc. Past is past. If you ask me, there is so much kachda in the tamil film industry that if it were discussed here, this forum will become trash. That is my point. If you talk about music, I would say, in the Indian industry there is no one to beat IR. ARR might be the trendsetter but he is good musician , not a genius like IR. My point is many geniuses have had their downfalls due to their eccentricities, attitude etc, but does that show up in their work. NO.
  
  "Ilayaraaja Traditional Arts and Music Trust" was not started because he wanted to regain his market. If you and everyone who is writing in this topic feel that we are losing his music, please notice this effort.
  I heard from a friend who met here at Washington that IR is planning to compose a symphony merging Thirugnana sambandhar's "Namachivaya vazhga" and the western classical symphony. Doesn't that sound amazing? Isn't it an experiment? How many musicians have attempted that in the past? So, instead of bashing for the composer for whatever happened the past, it is better to wait and see as to what the composer has more to give to India and the world.
  
  Thanks,
  
  
  
• From: satishv (@ 139.85.161.184) on: Fri Oct 20 14:56:17 EDT 2000
  
  IR BR VM COMBO gaali
  
  i dont want to talk who was egoistic in this
  http://aaramthinai.com/cinema/oct0020/news08.asp
  
  observer
  IR yen ipdi panraru
  
  
• From: observer (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Fri Oct 20 15:01:37 EDT 2000
  
  satishv:
  
  Are you happy now :-)? As an ARR fan, I think you are browsing madly for such news.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Oct 20 15:21:44 EDT 2000
  
  Observer,
  
  "I heard from a friend who met here at Washington that IR is planning to compose a symphony merging Thirugnana sambandhar's "Namachivaya vazhga" and the western classical symphony. Doesn't that sound amazing?"
  
  I find that amazing.I highly appreciate him for the effort he is taking.We'll wait and see what he does with that.
  
  But let us not diverge from our primary concern-Tamil Film Music which to me seems to be the ultimate challenge where you have to satisfy different kinds of people.
  
  I don't think we should abandon TFM because it is Kachda.As fans we are also part of it.
  
  Give me a sincere answer to this.Do you think his contribution to TFM is a thing of the past?
  
  "If you talk about music, I would say, in the Indian industry there is no one to beat IR. "
  
  I also see clearly that this is your subjective opinion.May be in the above statement shoud be changed to "was".I'm just saying ARR may have a chance.Let's wait and see.
  
  I think in 1992(i'm not sure) when Desmond Haynes retired had 8000 and odd runs.Many famous Cricket journalists wrote that nobody would be able to beat him for the max number of runs.One year later Sachin scored his 1st century and one year later nobody had any doubts as to what he achieved last week.
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: Observer (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Fri Oct 20 15:43:05 EDT 2000
  
  Trend
  
  I have made it clear that IR does not have market in TFM. Please note that IR has not said anywhere that TFM is a kachda. He is doing music for tamil films and other language films, but the number is reduced, that is it. It is I who said that the politics in this industry is kachda and there is no use talking about it in this forum.
  
  IMO, ARR's music does not appeal to me after I have enjoyed IR's music. IR's music is so much complete in all senses that no other music seems to divert my attention.
  
  
  
• From: Sridhar (@ 171.70.67.45) on: Fri Oct 20 15:46:12 EDT 2000
  
  Hi,
  So far, there are lots and lots of comparison of IR and ARR. Now the point is, when we do a comparison, it should be done completely. What i mean by Completeness is, so far we've taken only the songs of both and have compared them and have come up with our own views.
  Now lets do something differently.
  Now lets take some of the best movies of both IR and ARR and then analyse the music of the movie as a whole.
  With this, we can really have a better picture of the two great MDs' musical knowledge.
  Of course, we don't have to conclude that IR is Better than ARR or other way round.
  This may throw some new lights which so far we've not come across.
  
  thanx
  
  
• From: observer (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Fri Oct 20 16:05:40 EDT 2000
  
  Ok. Sridhar. From raaja.com, I got the information that Raaja has composed music for 793 indian movies as of year 2000. The languages for which he composed include tamil, telugu, kannada, malayalam and hindi. If you atleast 5 songs(average) per movie then in total he has composed 3965 songs. Other than that, he has done albums like HTNI, NBW, India 24 hours, Ramana maalai, vedic chants, etc.
  
  And his career spans 25 years.
  
  May I know how many albums and songs has ARR made in the past 8 years?
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Oct 20 16:18:51 EDT 2000
  
  Observer,
  
  I think ARR has composed for about 50 films.There is no point in comparing the quantity of songs.
  
  I can give you another quantitative comparison.If you consider the total number of cassettes sold I'm sure there would be more number of ARR cassettes sold than IR cassettes.Isn't that very interesting considering between 50 and 793 films?
  
  Don't forget ARR is still not out and going places?
  Sridhar,
  
  In my opinion my fav ARR album is "Uyire" and fav IR album is "Idhaya Kovil".May be we should compare these two.
  
  Trend
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments