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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Paithiyam (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Oct 19 20:08:27 EDT 2000
  
  Would someone listen to my compositions and please compare me to ARR??? It would make a nice discussion thread.
  
  
• From: chandru (@ 205.208.17.129) on: Thu Oct 19 21:24:37 EDT 2000
  
  whyy not stop this nonsence of comparing ir with other music directors.i have been watching these and many of the threads here. innum yevvalavudhan olaruveenga, kottuveenga. veettuley velai illaiya. andha aalu (ir) saadhicha maadhiri yaarume saadhikka mudiyaadhu.therinjikittumkooda appadiyenna avarmela ippadi oru veruppu. poramaipudichi alaiyaringaleppa. avarukku attitudeaam, ungalukkukellam illadha attitude avarukku vandhiruchaa. indha kaalathu podipasanga ungalukku illadha thimir, attitude yarukume illai man. maaperum isaikalanjiyam avar.avarudaya paatukkalai yeduthu dissect panni paathuttu pesunga man. rendu ragam therinjukka vendiyadhu, westrn music pathi padika vendiyadhu apuram inge vandhu lodalodannu pesavendiyadhu. yellaraiyium thooki yerinji pesavendiyadhu, yarukuma attitude?nanum poruthu pathen thanga mudiyalai.indha siteai kuthagai yeduthuttu sila isai pisthakkal kottara kottal thaanga mudiayalai.neengalam yenna man IRai great musician apdeennu solradhu.ungalukku yenna yogidhai irukku man avaraipathi pesaradhukku.ingavandhu ippadi yeludhamey poyi isaiyai kaththukittu ir madhiri achive pannittu kottunga. atleast 1% achive pannungappa paakalam
  --chandru
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: IR-fan (@ 192.135.244.69) on: Fri Oct 20 02:53:03 EDT 2000
  
  Why don't you guys see the positive attitudes of IR. You guys seems to have blindly bashing the
  genius with out any purpose.
  
  Once kamal lost all his money on a movie Vikram
  IR is the one who gave him a hand to come back.
  
  When actor Parthiban's couple of movies failed
  at the box office continuously IR composed music
  for 'Ulle veliye' and refused to collect money.
  
  He never differentiates producers/directors by
  their banner or fame.
  
  There are lot of such incidents in which
  IR has open heartly helped the small producers/
  directors in the TF. That is why there were lots
  of producers in the field and there could be
  100 to 150 movies per year.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.172) on: Fri Oct 20 05:31:15 EDT 2000
  
  Let him who has zero ego comment on Raja's ego! OTOH, if we talk about many other important human qualities (sexual morality is one, for e.g.), how many of the film personalities will get pass marks?
  
  Let's better comment on Raja's music and stop at that. Getting too much into his attitude, behaviour and this and that (that too mostly based on heresay & one sided stories) will be a great injustice, IMHO!
  
  
• From: fan (@ 63.226.195.189) on: Fri Oct 20 08:54:08 EDT 2000
  
  chandru sir, just cool down, I am able under stand your sentiments.
  
  IR-FAN,
  IR had done lots to many temples which no knows about, the sriragam gopuram was built from his funding.
  
  Any way, people have good qualities and bad, as i mentioned we are not judging anyone here, we are just analysing the causes.
  Chandru sir, do you say if i have to talk about sachin I have score 10,000 run and then only talk.
  if this logic is true, there cannot be single critic in the world. I request you to Just cool down.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 64.160.53.155) on: Fri Oct 20 09:43:43 EDT 2000
  
  Sriks one correction - IR funded for one "aduku" of the Srirangam Gopuram.....
  
  
• From: chandru (@ 205.208.17.187) on: Fri Oct 20 09:44:35 EDT 2000
  
  fan buddy
  
  not 10000 runs.just 1% of 10000.oru pechukkuppa.chinnapasanga yedhavadhu sadhichuttu pesunga.sadhichavanga amaidhiya irukkanga.niraikudam thalumbadhu.empty vessels make noise.katra kalvi kaiman alavudhan.ivvalavu panam,porul, sambarichutu, indrum amaidhiya,nidhanama irukkar apdinnu ninaikkumbodhu ir romba periya manushardhaan.naalu kaasu pathuthuvittal indru thalai kaal purivadhillai indra ilaya samudhayaththukku.yenakku yaar melayum kovam kidaiyadhu.eden buddy solramadhiri ir'udaya character, attitude, pales in front of his great compositions. pesuvadharku ondrume illai.avvalavu sutthama irukkaar.
  
  anyway,pardon me for the bodhanai.nan vudren joots
  :=}
  --anbudan - chandrasekaran sivaswami yennum chandru
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Fri Oct 20 11:25:11 EDT 2000
  
  Music Fan,
  We are not questening IR's past work and performance. He will be remembered as one of the all time greatest in TFM. I do not think I ever compared IR with ARR. We were discussing about IR's attitude problem which brought him into trouble and made him loose all the good directors who were working with him. If you say IR is a well liked, down to earth personality I will say a BIG NO. He had his ego clash with almost every one he worked with. Attributing this with money, commercialization of TFM is only a "Sapakattu".
  
  IR as a MD was great, but failed miserably in controling his Ego with others. What do you have to say for 'Fan:''s comment of an IR's Interview in Doordharshan where he said "Naan Podurathuthaan Music, Adai Kettkanumgrathu Makkaloda Thalei Ezthu'. You can get a glimpse of the man's Super EGO.
  
  As a last point, no one who has had problems with IR would come and report it publically. All, the problems that he had with the directors and producers seem to point to his big EGO.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Oct 20 12:33:11 EDT 2000
  
  dorai,
  I think people are mixing sentiments with reality.
  Do you think we should discuss further.
  
  Btw: i did not tell that statement
  what i told was during heyram interview, where he called current musicians are plastic musicians.,
  which i did not like.
  
  Muktha in his book writes , pavalar brothers were the best musicians during the 80's apart from that he also says "pana vishiyathil both of them are very "karar".
  
  As a fan, I dont agree to this, as far as charity goes gr/ir have done a lot. When i was in school, one of the charity groups in my school wanted to collect funds for building hospitals in remote parts of tamil nadu etc, they approaced a famous singer, who is known for getting crowd, the famous singer negated saying that he does only 3 charity show per year, he has been already booked for the year,if at all he does he demaned a huge amount and and 50% of the gate collection.
  , later these folks went to amar/ir, they did the show without taking a ruppee. Gate collection was huge.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Ramesh Ganesan (@ 206.175.176.2) on: Fri Oct 20 12:43:18 EDT 2000
  
  Dorai
  
  This is going for a long time. What is your point?. OK, even Assuming IR has a big ego and in your own words being rude. Like sabesan says that is the way he wants to be. He is a sane adult and is capable of understanding his actions and ready to take the consequences.
  
  So if you don't like him for his attitude dont listen to him. I am sure he wouldn't mind losing a fan like you. If you a true fan of his, do not rake up this issue (which is a non-issue in my opinion) anymore.
  
  He doesn't even mind losing films. From what he says openly he is not interested to be in the top list of MD anymore, he just wants to go about his work, he has other ideas he wants to persue and doesn't want to be bound my doing only TFM.(atleast that is what I undestand).
  
  If no one who has worked up with him had not reported problems then why are you (who has seen him only once in a conference) raking up this issue.
  
  NOM :-)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Fri Oct 20 12:46:32 EDT 2000
  
  Fan,
  
  I think it's better to stick to his attitudes which affects his music making abilities or which loses him good opportunities.
  
  We shouldn't start a character study here.My opinion is he being charitable doesn't affect his music career.May in the minds of a few fans who mix his music and his persona.
  
  Trend
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Oct 20 13:12:44 EDT 2000
  
  Hopefully my final thoughts :)
  Dorai, trend .
  
  The loss is ours till we find a replacement , once we get one (or someone close to his abilities:) loss slowly becomes "his", this is reality. As ramesh points out "he knows it very clearly". So I prefer to drop this matter right here.
  
  
• From: satishv (@ 139.85.161.184) on: Fri Oct 20 13:18:54 EDT 2000
  
  Fan
  ur thoughts are too fundoo
  i liked it
  
  
• From: Krishna (@ 208.28.2.2) on: Fri Oct 20 13:30:20 EDT 2000
  
  I disagree that the loss will ever be IR's....
  
  

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