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Music directors !!

Topic started by Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.133) on Sun May 13 19:02:00 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hey guys

I want to know what you think about Laxmikant Pyarelal and R.D. Burman. How do you like their music and their style and how would you compare them to Illyaraja and A.R. Rahman.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: e.hari (@ 199.67.140.20) on: Thu May 17 10:46:30 EDT 2001
  
  raj,
  KSS cleary mentioned current trend. Show me, Where he tried to generalize that as the past HFM trend.
  
  You can not compare HFM and TFM as a whole, because HFM has been influenced by people, who came from different parts of the country ( punjabi ( OPN, madan mohan), UP ( LP, naushad), bengal ( SC, SDB, RDB) and maharastra ( AB, CR) ( almost more than half of india). But tamil nadu is a small state and the music influnences are not as varied as HFM.
  But if you try to compare individual MDS with each other, I can agree there is validity in your argument.
  Still TFM always stood equal if not better than HFM is the testimony to the talent availble in TFM.
  Also regarding your comparision with sarigamapa and similiar programs in south does not hold either, since basically sarigama has more talent pool availble to select than say a program in tamil. Anyhow, if you compare the talent of play back singing in north and south( Only at current state), you know, where you can find talented singers.
  Dont assume that that I never listened TO HFM. :-)
  
  Regards
  e.hari
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu May 17 15:11:06 EDT 2001
  
  Guys..guys..I dont think everybody in North does not have musical taste or something ('North' is not one single entity, right). ARR was generalising but I was just surprised that he was actually generalising !!! I am well aware of the musicality of ghazals, hindustani classical etc..I also suspect that the social structure might have a lot to do with the musical preference in mass media. My impression is North is clearly more polarised (rich and poor) than the south. BTW, Carnatic Music is THE music of South Indians ..having roots in early Tamil music. So I am not surprised South likes Classical music..(and BTW Indian Classical is synonymous with melody to me, maybe that is why I misquoted ARR, sorry about that).
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu May 17 15:24:40 EDT 2001
  
  "These people have created far complex and better music than IR". If you throw this statement into a vending machine, you wont even get a chewing gum...
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.68) on: Thu May 17 17:07:22 EDT 2001
  
  Mr. Raj avargale...I'm in the mood to spill blood so here goes...
  
  >>>"This extent of craze with music in TFM has started with only IR.<<<
  
  Music has always been in the Tamils blood...that's why you will find newtfmpage.com full of such in-depth analysis and the freedom to discuss other music also (give me a similar DF on IFM anywhere else, let's see)...proof enough ! If the Internet had the World Wide Web as widespread in the 50s or 60s, you would find this DF existing and intense debates on...!
  
  >>>When someone says music is a timepass in north that somebody is "crap". ...<<<
  
  Before getting boiled up...I'd really like you to give a detailed dissected analysis of any one song from the same category from any HFMd and IR..
  if you can't do this then better cool down !
  
  >>>And please dont give such instances like "Yesterday I was seeing Sahara Channel, there was a program with kids and the compere
  asked them to choose the Top No. 1, the songs were "Kambakht Ishq" and "Mitwa" and the kids choose the formersome kids in Sahara channel" and then genarilaze it. <<<
  
  I could've given a lot of other instances, but be thankful that I stopped with the above.
  
  >>>That way i can advice u to watch saregama in Zee t.v and compare the quality od singers there with any of the south indian shows which copy that. They are crap in comparison to Saregama.<<<
  
  I do watch Saregama...and admire the host for his spontaneity and spirit and like the many old and new melodious numbers hummed there...actually they sound better there at times !
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu May 17 17:13:38 EDT 2001
  
  "Music has always been in the Tamils blood..."
  ungaL vOttu cosmician avaugalukkE..varungAla mudhalvar cosmician..vAzhga.. :) :)
  
  
• From: Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.133) on: Thu May 17 18:30:50 EDT 2001
  
  Music has been and is in everybody's blood who likes music and who grows up with music. This page has depth to discuss music and there are also tons of other sites in the net who discuss music to a good extent. Both the north and south are full of music that is why you find music all around in India. When ARR said that people in the north like simple music he didn't mean that the people their do not take it seriously. Music is an art all THROUGHOUT india. Classical music is an art all THROUGHOUT India and not only in the south. That is why you will find many great masters of music in the North who have defined Indian Music as well as in the South. All of you know this fact too and can state many examples. If a person says that the North does not take music as an art seriously then he or she is ignorant and doesn't know one quarter of music at all. Why do you think classical musicians from the North are known all around the world and their work has been respected by the WHOLE of India. The classical musicians in the south are also known to be masters of their art and are also respected in India.
  
  ARR meant the current state of film music and not the seriousness of music as an art because even he knows that both the North and the South take music seriously. I am writing this post to talk about the fact of seriousness of music in the North and South and not the current state of music in the North and South. That is a separate topic by itself.
  
  HFM directors of the past such as MM, RDB, SJ, Naushad all created complex numbers which to this day are unmatched by anyone. as Raj said, They have created more complex numbers than Illyaraja and that is true. I am not saying that Illyaraja is bad or is not complex, all i am saying is that the past HFM MD's created an inspiration for today's MD's such as Illyaraja. One factor as e.hari pointed out is the fact that in HFM you had MD's from all over India, MM and OPN (punjab), LP & Naushad (UP), AB & CR (maharashtra), RDB, SDB, SC (bengal), KA(gujarat) and SJ (hyderabad), yes SJ brought some south Indian influences into their music since Shankar was from Hyderabad as well as Ravi who did malayalam movies as well and brought some south indian touch into his music. That is more than half of India. Therefore HFM is more varied than TFM and that cannot be argued because it is simply time wasting to argue a proven point.
  
  Next, discussing individual MD's in the south and north. All MD's have been good in both south and north and they have all given good and excellent music. As far as music goes, MD's from the North have had more variety than in the South as stated earlier. So with all these facts, you cannot say that music is not taken seriously or as an art in the North since all the facts are in front of your eyes to prove that it has been taken as as art in both HFM and classical music. Hindustani and Carnatic music are both forms of excellent classical music and each is good in it's compositions. All it takes to know about Indian Music is a trip down into the books of Indian Music and into the past of the personalities who have made up what Indian Music is today !!. So PLEASE do not make statements such as oh ! music is not that serious in this part of india or in that part of india because all you are doing is degrading yourself to the pits of stupidity !!
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Thu May 17 18:45:30 EDT 2001
  
  IMF,
  So whats they point? If HFM has variety what can do about it? Why do we care?. We like TFM more because its based on our home music. We dont like HFM much because it ALIEN music for us. if we want variety music, we can always listen to Arabic, persian, jewish, celtic, japnese, why do we need hindi film music at all.
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Thu May 17 18:45:40 EDT 2001
  
  IMF,
  So whats the point? If HFM has variety what can do about it? Why do we care?. We like TFM more because its based on our home music. We dont like HFM much because it ALIEN music for us. if we want variety music, we can always listen to Arabic, persian, jewish, celtic, japnese, why do we need hindi film music at all.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu May 17 19:20:25 EDT 2001
  
  Is 'Indian Music fan' another schizophrenic manifestation of 'lv' ? Is there any implication here that TFM is not 'Indian Music' ? Or would you kindly elaborate what 'Indian Music' is ?
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Thu May 17 19:37:35 EDT 2001
  
  "That is why you will find many great masters of music in the North who have defined Indian Music as well as in the South"
  
  can you tell me which master in North defined,
  "Manmatha lelai vendrarundo?"
  
  Have you ever heard that song?. Let me tell you something. TFM is much independent entity than you think. It has a differnt evolution altogether.
  
  Is there any song similar to "Devan koil maniyosai" from any HFM master. Iam not saying HFM was bad, but TFM has it own roots, it doesnt much to do with north. Where can we find a song similar to "Nalam thana .." in HFM.
  
  TFM dont have variety? how many songs movies like that in Karnan are there in HFM? Any song like "Engirundho vanthan ..." in HFM. How about "Yaradi nee mohini". Any 2000 yr old literature ever appeared in movies as it did in Avvayar?. I will bet, if there are songs like NSK's songs that appeared in HFM ever. There cant be songs in HFM as sonsg that appeared in 'parthiban kanavu', 'veerapandiaya kattabomman'. "Endru thaniyum indha sudandira thagam" was a class, I weep for that songs any time I listen to it. "Katrinile varum geetham" is evergreeen. All these are apart from MSV and IR !!.
  
  I can go on and on. Actualy I had a chance to think about the old TFM songs because of this topic. I will say there is nothing less in variety in old TFM. I swear. I raised the same in a different post, but none responded.
  
  IMF,
  You are some Wheel chair intelect, you dont know any bull about TFM. You listened 2 3 tamil songs in some tea shop and you are talking about it. Have you heard about these songs I mentioned above?
  Not even knowing these films how you can claim there is less variety in TFM. And you call it a proven fact!. Its a insult. Also though you put some good words, in your mind you want say North did great and south didnt it.
  
  North had the media and attention all along. It had the Radio and TV. People in south got only 10% time for thier own language songs!. How can TFM will spread all over india?. There were days tamil people got to watch only Hindi programs all the day!. All the cheap politics helped hindi songs to spread even in south, the other way never happened. So we have legends in ONLY in north now.
  
  There was nothing like Naushad, SDB and others defined music for whole india. (this is like that theory all northies have that south indian languages formed out of Sanskrit - not even knowing what is dravidian and indo-european langauges). There were legends like MKT, PUC, TR etc in 40s. They didnt have anything to do with HFM.
  
  TFM fans, I want to you talk about old TFM. And how does it compare to old HFM.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu May 17 19:51:51 EDT 2001
  
  Since I am tired typing, and IMF has written so much material, let me cut and paste from his stuff and see if this makes sense...here goes. ( I have made it more gramatically readable). Enjoy folks....
  
  Cut and Paste from IMF:
  
  Music in everybody's blood grows up in both the north and south. That is why you will find many great masters of music in the North that is ignorant and doesn't know one quarter of music at all. The classical musicians in the south are known to be masters of their art and are also respected in WHOLE of India.
  ARR meant the current state of film music in the North is a separate topic by itself.
  HFM directors of the past such as MM, RDB, SJ, Naushad all created an inspiration for today unmatched by what Illyaraja did and that is true. That cannot be argued because it is simply time wasting to argue a proven point. From all over India, punjab, UP, maharashtra, RDB, SDB, bengal, gujarat and hyderabad, that is more than half of India brought some influences of malayalam movies into theirs.
  Next, discussing individual MD's in the north is degrading yourself to the pits of stupidity !!
  
  I hope you all enjoyed this...looking forward to more inspirational stuff from IMF
  
  

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