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Ilaiyaraja and the bass guitar!

Topic started by Srivatsan (@ 219.65.96.172) on Thu Dec 4 06:48:17 EST 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Ilaiyaraja and the bass guitar!

Dear All, Im a newbie to this wonderful site. Ive just been going through the old IR threads, especially 'Ilaiyaraja and the guitar' and the like. I was fascniated by the way ppl had discussed these topics (Mux, Kanchana and Kitcha ... hats Off!) I am absolutely bowled out by IRs use of the bass guitar in many many songs, like Ninnukori, POOgatru PudhirAnathu and so on. Im planning to learn the acoustic guitar and I thought Ilaiyaraja's love for the bass guitar shopuld be discussed more in detail. Please post ur comments!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Kupps (@ 199.180.6.44) on: Tue Dec 16 11:01:56 EST 2003
  
  "Kannan vandhu paadugiraan kaalamellaam" is from rettai vaal kuruvi. a very nice song sung very well by SJ.
  
  "Paadavaa un paadalai" is from naan paadum paadal again by SJ. Remember ambika singing her first playback song expecting her husband's arrival and her doctor(?) husband mohan rushes in car to reach the studio to see her recording and eventually endup in a fatal accident? Superb orchestration in interlude to bring in that emotion.
  
  "Pala machham konda machaan" (i guess mythila has mentioned the song "ada machcham uLLa machchaan) if so it is from chinnaveedu. remember the sloga like chanting, in the prelude, by SPB "om kamasutraaya namaha; om vatsaayanaaya namaha; om adhiveera kaama paandyaaya namaha" then followed by female voice "naan aththini; naan chiththini; naan padmini; naan tharangini" then starts trumpet prelude for the song again very well started(sung) by SJ to be joined by SPB later. remember vocal jadhi kind of rhythmic support by (TVG like voice) "thaga dhina thaga dina thagrana"?
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 199.180.6.44) on: Tue Dec 16 11:05:18 EST 2003
  
  srivatsan,
  
  ada machcham uLLa machchaan song clip is there in Guitar Prasanna's favourite IR songs page whose link i already gave a few posts above.
  
  
• From: truth (@ 192.23.120.208) on: Tue Dec 16 12:41:11 EST 2003
  
  i think perhaps one of IR'S greatest bass works could be found in the movie
  
  Thendrale ennai thodu...
  
  the song is Pudiya poovithu poothathu
  
  check it out guyz..if u want to know what i mean.. simply amazing
  
  
  
• From: Amateur HC IRfan (@ 140.251.171.216) on: Tue Dec 16 13:18:59 EST 2003
  
  For ignorant people,
  Please can one of u describe
  1.what exactly is bass ( Bass guitar),
  2.can any string instrument can be played as bass
  3. Can some body explain in a simple , easily understandable way (for people who aren't sure what it is) some examples of songs with the exact parts of it which has bass work, and how is it appreciated ( i mean does it matter a lot on the recording quality like original CD recording vs Mp3 vs audio tape vs FM broadcastetc) also does it matter with stero eqipment ( Hi end AV receivers, Home theatre system , Head phone listening), please I just want to make sure I am appreciating those naunces in IR's composition.
  4. Is it something unique of IR's composition or does it appear in other's compositions ( i mean other than IR and ARR and western music)
  5. Finally, what is the significance of a bass work in other words does it alter the melody, rhythm or harmony or does it have an effect some thing entirely different ( again in other words are there any work of IR with same song with and without Bass work, like a pathos vs happy or joyful version so that can help me identify what is the difference)
  
  Please, and I appreciate all your input especially the TFM Forum fans with indepth knowledge on basic music
  
  Amateur HC IRfan
  
  
  
• From: agneyen (@ 68.227.216.120) on: Tue Dec 16 13:59:15 EST 2003
  
  Bass guitar is basically electrical guitar with a low pitch sound ( Hollow deep sound ). It has 4 strings as opposed to normal 6 string guitars. Tuning for bass guitar is usually simplified to play it easily. And I think Bass guitar is longer than normal guitar .
  
  You can compare bassist ( bass guitar player ) to
  a tabla player. All he has to do is keep up with the rhythm of the song. Bassist need to work very closely with tabla or drum player.
  
  For example Take song Alai payuthe in movie ( Alai payuthe ). Imagine it is being played by bassist First line 'Alai payuthe .. Kanna ' scales up. It builds tension. if you stop at that moment you will feel that song is incomplete but in the next line 'en man.. alai payuthe' tension is released as it is scaled back to original.
  
  This is what bassist exactly do play during tension .. raise tension .. make people excited.
  
  
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Tue Dec 16 19:01:51 EST 2003
  
  Bass guitar has been used in indian film songs even before IR. I have seen GK Venkatesh use it and some other kannada MD (whose name escapes me now) use it. In my limited listening I find these MDs use it in prelude and in the interludes. Mostly to back up the rhythm as agneyen describes. But I have seen IR use the bass to back up the rhythm as well as the melody. So you can see it being played during the charanams as well. A good example is pothi vecha malligaimottu from mann vaasanai. It is very easy to follow the bass guitar with a headphone. Most times people easily miss it. They think it is only the tabla playing, but the tabla alone just would not sound so good. For Indian music,the minimum requirement is you need lead vocal + tabla (percussion), for IR's music, the minimum requirement is lead vocals + tabla + bass guitar.
  Most of IR songs have bass, especially, popular/rhythm oriented songs and folk songs (which are usually rhythmic as well). When the melody is too classical, it is backed up by the strings.
  Once you start following the bass lines in IRs songs ..you are hooked.
  
  
• From: srivatsan (@ 61.1.202.248) on: Wed Dec 17 03:17:12 EST 2003
  
  Sorry ppl: was busy for the last 2 days - do chkk out this page from Ilataragam yahoo group - gives out the bass nucances of Ilayaraja - the article is excellent!
  
  http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/rajaresearch2.htm
  
  HC IR fan: regarding uniqueness of IRs bass compositions we need to start a new thread! there is so much to discuss abt that topic. For a start just listen to these songs:
  
  1. Pani vizhum iravu (Mouna Raagam) Ist interlude beginning
  2. Sangeetha Megam (Udaya geetham) II interlude beginning
  3. Poongatru Pudhiraanadhu (THE SONG :)) from Moonram Pirai - u will understand what bass guitar is!!!
  4. Manram Vandha thendralukku (Moonram Pirai)there is bass guitar backing almost throught the song - listen to the first interlude and the second interlude with the trumpets - man, this is excellent!
  5. Ninnukori Varnam (Agni Natchatram)
  6.Poove sempoove from solla thudikudhu manasu - some 3 mins into the song.
  
  
  Also go thru the earlier posts to find abt more songs - do get bakk in this DF ... i wud liv to listen to ur experience of listening to IR bass - nothing derogatory here - lots ppl fail to 'see' the bass part!!
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: doubter (@ 208.142.210.184) on: Wed Dec 17 11:46:15 EST 2003
  
  Did anyone mention 'munnam seidha thavam' (vanaja girija)?? I think what serves as percussion throughout the song, is in fact a bass guitar. Or does a bass guitar accompany the synthetic beats?? Can somebody clarify??
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 61.1.201.178) on: Thu Dec 18 02:48:21 EST 2003
  
  The song "Vaanile thennila aadudhey paaduthey" (*ins Kamal and Ambika, ?movie?) has a catchy bass guitar tunes thruout the song!
  
  
• From: Josaph irudayaraj (@ 212.138.47.11) on: Thu Dec 18 05:34:19 EST 2003
  
  Hi!!!! srivatsan,
  
  the article's are really superb,excellent! Thanks.
  
  How about the song "OOrellam un pattu than",.....
  in 2/4 beat with tabla the bass is doing very cool job.
  
  Then madurai Vahai nadi from Darmathin thalaivan, realy the bass was nice, specialy in 2nd interlude.
  
  is any comment????
  
  
• From: Mythila (@ 128.88.255.34) on: Thu Dec 18 06:39:40 EST 2003
  
  "Vaanile thenilaa" ofcourse has a very catchy bass thru out the song. I haven't heard "Munnam seidha thavam" properly. Nevertheless, it is a great song.
  Some more songs with prominent bass track are "Devan koil deepam onru", "maalai soodum velai" , "Oru poongaavanam"
  The notable feature is that the bass track plays
  as a parallel melody with a slight shift from the main melody
  
  
• From: LLD (@ 202.54.153.21) on: Thu Dec 18 07:34:22 EST 2003
  
  An old post by Srinath
  
  From: Srinath (@ s04.austin.ibm.com) on: Mon Mar 8 16:15:40 EST 1999
  
  
  Please don't get started off on the bass guitar :-) I may not be theoretically as sound as you. But I know my skill and when I say IR is the master of bass, I mean it. "ARR accentuates that which ought not to be accentuated" is what I said in my last post. He uses a synthesized version of the bass and raises the volume to an ear-splitting level. He doesn't even use a structured bass score. It sounds as if he just plays a catchy piece on his keyboard, switches the tone to bass and repeats 8 bars throughout the song. Songs like Humma, Oorvasi and Maya Machindra are testimony to this 'instant bass' technique. See, a song does not become layered just because the MD records instruments in separate tracks. Let me put it this way. If you were to compare the WC notation of an IR number and an ARR number, you would find the difference. A Cello is to be felt, not heard ! Same goes for the double bass and all bass instruments.
  
  I cannot argue with you, as you will keep coming up with explanations as to why IR is the best
  
  Does this mean that you agree that we have sufficient reason to claim IR as the best ? :-)
  
  My first impression of Annakili was, "Why has he used so many instruments ! It almost sounds cacophonic !" He hadn't mastered the art of mixing then. But subsequently, he did and the result was Johnny, Mouna Ragam, Idhaya Koil, Udhaya Geetham, Erettai Vaal Kuruvi (just 2 songs to prove IR's genius), Punnagai Mannan and so many more. 'Layering' does not make sense without orchestration and that is why I quoted "Chandralekha". "Uyirum Neeye" is a lilting number, but I have not had the opportunity to listen to it in depth so I dare not comment.
  
  There isn't enough space here to list the IR numbers which you ought to listen to simply for the bass. But I'll try to list some rght of the top of my head, and promies me that the next time you liten to these, you will concentrate on the bass.
  
  1. Kannan Vandhu Paaduginran - Rettai Vaal Kuruvi
  2. Anjali, Anjali - Anjali
  3. Ilamayenum Poongatru - Iravil Oru Pagal or whatever
  4. Sangeetha Megham - Udhaya Geetham
  5. Chinna Chinna Vanna Kuyil - Mouna Raagam
  6. Enna Satham Indha Neram - Punnagai Mannan
  7. Andha Nilava thaan naan - Mudhal Mariyadhai
  8. Pon Maane Theuduthe - Oh Maane Maane
  
  My fingers hurt from typing on this lap-top ! I shall name some more from home if you are interested. My claims to IR's layering being better are no empty boasts. They are indeed better. ARR attracts more listeners towards his psuedo-layering because as I said earlier he accentuates that which ought not to be accentuated. The entire purpose is lost with ARR's style.
  
  Simply for layering, listen to Vegam, Vegam form Anjali. IR uses more 'layers' in this one song than ARR uses in an entire album !
  
  
• From: PK (@ 66.176.167.250) on: Thu Dec 18 09:11:16 EST 2003
  
  Pon Vaanam Panneer Thoovudhu: Indru Nee Naalai Naan
  http://web.music.coolgoose.com/go/song?id=77840&get=bin
  
  Someone already mentioned this song, but you guys have to listen to it to appreciate what is being discussed. btw, this song is not just about the bass, it is probably one of Raja's best compositions ever. It boggles my mind everytime I listen to it...the yearning of the woman accentuated by the straining of the bass & sounds of rain & thunder, but the soothing piano somehow trying to calm her down. And how about the use of percussion & the gentle strumming of the guitar during the pallavi? This is yet another perfect example of how Ilaiyaraja can perfectly relate to a song's situation and elevate it with his genius.
  
  Pon Maane: Oh Maane Maane
  http://web.music.coolgoose.com/music/song.php?id=91513
  
  One of the peppiest songs I've heard from early Raja...makes me happy every time I hear it. Maybe not a classic example of his bass compositions, but nevertheless its hard to miss in the song, esp. when Kamal goes "un paarvai thoduthu enakkoru poo maalai...".
  
  Enjoy! :)
  
  

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