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Has ARR started the downfall of TFM?

Topic started by OfCourseNot (@ 172.149.139.210) on Sat Jan 26 03:41:08 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Since ARR has joined TFM,we have seen a slow decrease in the quality if TFM. ARR introduced digital music which merely required good practical skills in programmimg and sound engineering. Now we see new MD's sprouting up all over the place and these people have very limited musical talent.
Just recently I read that for the movie "Hey Nee Romba Azhaga irruke" 5 new MD's have been signed. I feel that the talent in TFM is just becoming more and more diluted due to ARR's influence. What do you think about this?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Sat Feb 2 22:33:47 EST 2002
  
  soory typo, read the sentence as "Lots of songs by AR feature guitar, mostly as a rhythm instrument."
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 151.201.225.222) on: Sat Feb 2 22:59:21 EST 2002
  
  Most people have misunderstood arr, they assume he is just bangs a drum groove with some "samples" and churns a song, i am sorry,
  this is not the case, if you have observed his tracks properly, arr music structure or elements in his arrangement can be technically split like this :
  
  1. Foundation : bass, drums or an acousitic or guitar or keys also. at time bass plays it own structure from the foundation.
  2. Pad : often a synth sound (usually it is an organ (hammond) or a rhodes (fender) sounds in western music), arr uses string pads with some good creative reverb.
  
  3. Rhythm : It is any instrument that plays counter to the foundation , a tambourine, claps, shaker, a rhythm guitar strumming , this adds motion and excitment to the track. Infact he uses ("backing") vocals to do this also.
  
  4.Lead tune (the song in tamil film music)
  
  5. Fills: This occurs in between lines, something like "answers" to the lead, this is mostly chorus or keys or guitar.
  
  
  sam, yes! in "Samba samba" that was pure Bilahari piece, Prasanna converted it to a niche rock work. Amazing musical part.
  
  and Kiru,
  IR composes the tune, then adds the orchestration
  - IMO, it is often other way around.
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 151.201.225.222) on: Sat Feb 2 23:17:08 EST 2002
  
  and as far ARR recording goes, his frequency range and Equalizing is much superior than anyone.
  
  Though 95% of music studios in tfm use more or less same gadget, (I heard Mani sharma has built a state of the art studio in Hyderabad)
  The cooks touch is important, The basic elements of frequency range...are SUB-Bass, Bass, Low Mids, HighMids, Presence and Brillaince
  often Arr songs are done well in these ranges.
  He controlles them so well.
  
  Brilliance: This is about 6KHZ to 16khz, sounds is very clear at this range, however, we can hear some sibilance in vocal track. some might not like it, i like it.
  
  Presence: (4kh-6khz) Boosting this will make sound close to the listener. If you hear properly, arrs sounds/music are very close to the listener.
  
  Bass :The musical width can be defined by this, again Arr controls this well, he makes the track to be thin or thick by controling this range perfectly.
  
  I found these things after hearing 1000hrs of arr work nonstop just to identify/learn his recording Receipe, I also seeked few pro-sound guys whom I know, to help me, just to know it better and make sure I am correct.
  
  still if I try this combo...mmmmm I need to learn more.:)
  
  Ipidi irukache,how can we say he is going out of business ?
  (the above line is to stay on topic:)
  
  
• From: Pras (@ 193.251.77.203) on: Sun Feb 3 07:05:48 EST 2002
  
  http://www.cinesouth.com/masala/28012002/gossips.shtml
  
  "With Isai Puyal's recent "Alli" flower movie to flopping at the box office, none of the directors are approaching him save a few big names. "Deva, Bharadwaaj are super. Karthik, Yuvan, Vidyasagar are superb" they all say. And they are busy doing everything else but nearing Subbaraayan Street.
  
  Wait till Manirathnam's movie hits the screen!"
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Sun Feb 3 10:21:51 EST 2002
  
  Pras, in the KTV interview for Pongal, ARR says that he is postponing his non-film albums as he has another 9 or 10 films to complete. I don't think this will be the case if the cinesouth gossip is true.
  
  
• From: UV (@ 216.40.243.22) on: Sun Feb 3 10:48:15 EST 2002
  
  Dear Admin
  I would request the admin to move the contents of this under a different thread say 'TFM MD'S musical approach and recording technqs'
  this has been a very useful and meaninful discussions after a very long tiring threads of ARR/IR bashing' and most of us has spend lot of time giving our best inputs for a meaningul discussion
  thanks
  
  
• From: UV (@ 216.40.243.22) on: Sun Feb 3 10:58:52 EST 2002
  
  Srikanth
  Thanks sharing a valuable info about the recding approach of ARR.
  A question ? during some songs I find there is little distortion of sounds say the treble is too high or the bass is not balanced properly,
  why this is happening the MD or sound engineered missed something ?
  Once again i am not comparing any one particular individual
  In some of the IR song movies that came after Dhalapathi and not the recent ones like bharathi i found these may be i missed something did you guys found something like that ?
  
  Missing the timing?
  In the song 'Endhan Nenjil neegatha' song from Kalaignan after the pallavi in the first interlude the beat(drum/rthym box) the punch dosent sit properly did anyone observe this or i made a mistake ?
  
  Once again thanks for valuable inputs
  
  
• From: UV (@ 216.40.243.22) on: Sun Feb 3 11:02:17 EST 2002
  
  What I meant that in that place the thalam doesnt sit on 'Samam'
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Sun Feb 3 13:52:54 EST 2002
  
  UV, why don't u start a new thread under that title and copy and paste the relevant posts by Srikanth, Sam, SamP, Naaz, Kiru, hihi, yourself, etc and continue the discussion from there. It was very interesting to read your posts and I think it deserves a more fitting thread topic heading and ambience than this thread. Just a humble suggestion.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.166.86.128) on: Sun Feb 3 15:01:34 EST 2002
  
  Srikanth, I know you have said before that IR comes up with the chord movement first. I am still not convinced. He has too many rAgam based/derived songs and I am thinking he went from rAgam to tune to orchestration. Anyways, many songs of his have interesting chord movement, which is quite possible he thought of that before. So you may have a point.
  Coming to ARR's recording, I know you have put his recordings under the proverbial magnifying glass, your spectrum analyser. I am sure you are not saying, its all in the equalizer, in case people misunderstand you. I am sure he mixes it right and gets to the equalizer for last minute 'touch ups' (mastering). Too much equalisation on the final stereo mix will muddy the output, Dont you think ?.
  One of the reasons, ARRs instruments are so perfect, I believe is because they are recorded separately and mixed in. (The sibilance is because of digital recording.Was there sibilance in those LP days ? No)
  
  UV, WhyNot ..good suggestion on the topic name. (UV ..were you talking about the Eagles Hell Freezes CD? Still the jamming at the end of the song is much better in the original studio recording, IMHO)
  
  I probably will compile a list of IRs best recordings (as I collect his albums) and put it up on the web. The ones I can think of quickly are thEvar magan (not all songs), en raasavin mansilE etc. Among the oldies ninaivellAm nithyA is the best. In all these songs, if you have a good system you can really hear the actual instruments in your room.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 172.142.50.147) on: Sun Feb 3 15:07:59 EST 2002
  
  Kiru - Ninaivellam Nithya - r u sure, it had a good recroding.... i really doubt it.... especially the song "Nee thaane Endhaan" by spb, i find it very very hard to get to what SPB is singing, and also somehow i always felt, the recording was bad.... not sure why though....
  
  one movie that i really think that had a very very good recording - PRIYA.....
  
  
• From: x (@ 164.119.216.3) on: Sun Feb 3 16:08:58 EST 2002
  
  so people are moving away from "nativity" giving improtance to "fantasy"
  
  http://thirai.ambalam.com/int-artist/2002/february/int-artist01_02.html
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.113) on: Sun Feb 3 16:12:03 EST 2002
  
  Kiru, composing a raga based song does not necessarily imply that IR did not consider the underlying chords movement. There are several raga based songs of IR where the tune flow has been cut short/tampered with in order for it to be better intertwined with the chords.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Feb 3 16:38:59 EST 2002
  
  Could someone please tell me how to download the "tamizh" language stuff - particularly the essays/articles links here - are usually in tamizh. Do I need load the "international" word program?? My computer throws up gibberish when I get to Thirai Ambalam or Kumudam - links. I just need a pointer in the right direction...and then I promise not to betray my Naan Techie Illai colours!
  Many thanks.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Sun Feb 3 16:42:39 EST 2002
  
  Digression:
  
  Kiru, some more info on Hotel California,
  It first came out in the 70's, and the original featured don henley playing the drums and singing the song at the same time. If that was good, then its unplugged version showed another side of this song.
  The unplugged song featured three acoustic guitars, of which one was a 12 string. Wheh I tried to play the chords in the intro of this version, I cudnt get the right sound, until some one told me that there are two chords being played there. One 6 string plays the melody , but another 6 string plays one chord, and the 12 string plays another chord at the same time. Eagles didnt start with the same intro they had in the original, they had another intro to this intro and when the original intro starts u can hear the crowd going crazy, I think the crowd didnt know what song the band was playing till the original intro started.
  Visit this page for complete tab of this song
  http://people.bu.edu/joshrobe/tab/songs/eagles/hotelcac.htm
  Sorry for the digression
  
  
• From: UV (@ 138.88.109.48) on: Sun Feb 3 16:44:25 EST 2002
  
  I remember long time ago posting something similar to that of mr. observer said .
  Most western musician for example Mr.Sting works on chords pattern first and then go about doing the song.
  Going be what others said abt IR way i assume he does the traditional harmonium way of playing the tune once approved then he builds the chords,orchestn around it. or everything about chords and orchtn Ir decides already in mind as thought then writes it down
  And guys can you please post your suggestions in the new thread please thanks as i feel bad posting under this thread with the topic 'ARR started the downfall of tfm' we can discuss this under much friendlier topic
  
  
• From: UV (@ 138.88.109.48) on: Sun Feb 3 16:47:25 EST 2002
  
  Kiru
  yes i am having that 'the Eagles Hell Freezes CD'
  the unplugged version is superb.
  Wish we get quality rock band like those days.
  The recently showed a program like doc abt Sting where they travel along with him to his live performace ,it was nice to see them discussing as what songs to play ,synctn of players etc very interesting musically
  
  

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