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Has ARR started the downfall of TFM?

Topic started by OfCourseNot (@ 172.149.139.210) on Sat Jan 26 03:41:08 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Since ARR has joined TFM,we have seen a slow decrease in the quality if TFM. ARR introduced digital music which merely required good practical skills in programmimg and sound engineering. Now we see new MD's sprouting up all over the place and these people have very limited musical talent.
Just recently I read that for the movie "Hey Nee Romba Azhaga irruke" 5 new MD's have been signed. I feel that the talent in TFM is just becoming more and more diluted due to ARR's influence. What do you think about this?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: RD (@ 12.234.170.75) on: Sat Feb 2 13:04:36 EST 2002
  
  Sounds like an intelligent discussion on the techniques involved in music making. I do have a question may be someone can answer. One of the qualities of ARR's music is the sound quality. From the beats(percussion) to the bells the sound is different...kind of crisp. IMO other MD's lack this aspect in their music. Is there a recipe to this diff sound that can only be seen in ARR's music. Or is it reproducable in the sense, are others aware of what exactly he is doing.
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Sat Feb 2 15:24:11 EST 2002
  
  UV: u missed few more IR great guitar songs:
  
  (1) ithu oru nilA kAlam
  (2) thaththOm thaLAngku thaththOm (what a song!!)
  (3) pUmAlai oru pAvaiyAnadhE
  (4) gurucharaNam nAdhA nAdhA
  (5) pUnthaLirAda (second interlude... one of the sweetest counterpoints ever composed)
  (6) iLamai idhO idhO
  (7) ennuLLE ennuLLE
  (8) ennuyirE vA ennuyirE (listen to the muted guitar)
  
  many more. almost all his songs can be listed for sweetness of the bassline. few years ago when we had a band, everytime we chose an ir song to play the bassist and the lead guitar will get in to an argument as to who will play the bass :-). as you mentioned in some previous posting, no one now seems to be interested in the wah sounds (pani vizum malar vanam ...) or the flangers or some of those freaky sound effects :-(
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Feb 2 16:07:55 EST 2002
  
  hihi - here's one more for your list:
  En Iniya Pon Nilave - from MoodupPani
  
  
• From: Breath-Taker (@ 207.46.125.17) on: Sat Feb 2 16:16:42 EST 2002
  
  Wow... Just can't believe this topic has evolved into something totally related with the title. Anyway, it's good to see such healthy discussions, instead of people fighting over who's the best MD or who started the downfall.
  
  
  
• From: Breath-Taker (@ 207.46.125.17) on: Sat Feb 2 16:17:35 EST 2002
  
  A Typo: ...something totally unrelated with the title...
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Feb 2 16:24:13 EST 2002
  
  Just a query: That song from Kadalora Kavidhaigal -
  "Dass Dass Nee Ippa Pass Pass" - wasn't that somewhat of a precursor to the "computerised" vision of TFM music in the 80s? So, what is it that makes ARR the sole bearer of the "downfall" cross? Is it his wizardry on the keyboards? His savvy with world music? His penchant for sound over voice? Or his cross-border appeal in the North-South divide?
  Pardon me if all this sounds a touch elementary, I am just trying to get a sense of the term "downfall" and the implications of such an allegation. Please ignore this post if all this is boring beyond belief. I'll understand. :-)
  
  
  
• From: Sam P (@ 213.1.45.2) on: Sat Feb 2 16:34:41 EST 2002
  
  Well, at least we're having a decent discussion with everyone putting forward great bits of knowledge and information, that we can all take away.i think its fantastic. i've certainly learnt a lot from this, and have a source to go and start listening to some IR stuff. lets keep it up. its goog stuff.
  Raycas,
  on your comment on sound quality, its an issue i've been thinking about a lot. anyone can put great music to a tune, but the criterea which seperate the best (like ARR and IR...)are, tune, tone and sound quality.obviously, this is not all, but just three very important aspects.
  Tune- an original tune, a catchy tune, a tune that tries not to resemble existing tunes.
  Tone, all instruments are tuned and toned to the same and right levels, so that a good tune can be complemented with good music.
  Sound Quality- at the end of the day, this is down to good engineering, and persistance to get the 'perfect' sound.
  please add to this..
  thanx
  take care
  Sam P
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Feb 2 16:58:15 EST 2002
  
  Sam P - The problem is not ARR's originality, nor his mastery of melding disparate "traditions" and "genres" to produce newer, fascinating tunes. He has proven to be adept at this, time and again. Hence, the "downfall" allegation seems both hasty and partisan.
  However, it is also true that since the advent of ARR there has been a spate of "clones" and "wannabes" (an inevitable by-product of trail-blazers - they open the door to many more lesser, "commercial" flashes in the pan) who have nothing to distinguish them from each other. Also, in chasing the "perfect" note (and most often finding it) ARR has (in)advertently promoted mediocre-to-bad singing, seconded poor lyrics, and has traded "nativity" for a pseudo "naturalness" (particularly in the new "talents" he has introduced.)I think this is the greater neglect, as Indian Film Music does not rely on Music alone. To acheive the status of "refined" entertainment, Sound, Voice, and Words have to challenge AND complement each other. ARR's emphasis is decidedly more in the "Sound" department, and hence the blanket "allegation" in the title (and intro) of this thread.
  I'd be happy for other views on this.
  
  
  
• From: Sam P (@ 213.1.45.2) on: Sat Feb 2 17:11:31 EST 2002
  
  Naaz, well said. i agree with what you said. it is clear that there are others who have immitated the style first brought to tfm by ARR. personally, i dont mind too much- for me, as long as the music is godd, then its fine. but i know why it irritates people.
  on your point about Sound, Voice and Words, your totally spot on. these are definatly important factors. ARR has introduced many new faces, and i think one of the biggest success stories from this, is that of Karthik. obviously there have been some miss's, and there are some songs in which you think, 'if only x had sung it'.please keep adding to this..
  thanx
  take care
  Sam P
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Sat Feb 2 18:19:21 EST 2002
  
  To add to another to Ir's guitar list,
  1."Priya Priyatama raagalu" from the telugu movie killer. I am a telugu guy, and I always listen to this. If u havent heard this one u can listen to it on musicindiaonline.com. Sad part is guitar is not that prominent after the intro. But the way intro sounds makes this a good guitar song. The arpreggios that start after the initial plucking are cool. By the way pay attention to the chord progression to the first lines in the charanam.
  
  
• From: Mohan Jayaraman (@ 67.192.61.66) on: Sat Feb 2 19:17:15 EST 2002
  
  There is no doubt that ARR's arrival started the downfall of TFM. All NASAL singers get a chance. Lifeless songs..Noises....Call it FUSION :)...
  
  It's high time he is taken away from the scene....Sick of him !!!
  
  
• From: UV (@ 138.88.106.70) on: Sat Feb 2 19:44:11 EST 2002
  
  Ahh finally the one posting we didnt want to have in the form lord shani is finally here ubhayam Mohan Jayaraman.
  Ok back to the discussion presentation is really important as important as the song itself
  we should be happy to use these techincs to enhance the sound ofcourse it doesnt matter if you use analog acoustic instrumetns or synth but MD and sound engineer should have a excellent understandng and come out with good stuff.
  Mixing wise ARR leads the way followed by newcomers like YSR,HJ.
  ARR has done some remarkable process on sound presentation
  may be one you have give more inputs on this
  IR used 24 stereo tracks during those days esp in the movie Priya
  but the present ones i dont know
  to my ears they seem to lacking or missing something somehow the balance or feels doesnt seem to be there
  But I wish someone comes up with all his work in digital format esp those 80songs
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.166.86.128) on: Sat Feb 2 21:43:02 EST 2002
  
  I want to share some of my thoughts on sound quality. We know ARR and IR are different. They are very different in many aspects, including presentation style. IR composes the tune, then adds the orchestration. IR's focus is the melody. I think he probably has a rAgam in mind and most times never strays out of the rAgam for that song. This is a very classical approach to making songs. ARR tries to find a good rhythm for the situation then comes up with a melody (just like many rock/pop music bands ).
  Since for IR, the tune is the focus, he wants to highlight this in the recording. So the vocals are in the foreground and all instruments are behind it and have lesser levels.
  For ARR, the rhythm is important, he highlights this by recording the percussion/bass/bells etc very upclose (reverb). The vocals have always have much higher reverb, than say, any IRs song. He has very nice equipment. Sometimes the 'space' around the vocals itself provides a 'nice touch' to the song.
  The recording style of ARR is the one used by POP musicians around the world. It comes out pretty good even on consumer stereo equipment. This is the reason for peoples preference for ARR's style of recording.
  IR's recording quality has been inconsistent. But there are quite a number of good recordings than what the common perception is. These good recordings are not recognised as good recordings because of the 'ambient' presentation of the instruments (for eg. the kick drum may not be as hard as you would want)
  Inspite of the phenomenal success of ARR, IR has stuck to his guns. Only recently, I have seen some recordings which are more 'flatter' than his original style (kAsi, kAthal jAthi..check these out they are very good ..recording and music wise as well) But YSR, has been recording in the same style as ARR for a long time. The equipment, he uses may not be as good as ARR, but it is very comparable. He often records (I think just mixes) in London.
  
  I once tried very hard to locate the master tapes of old IR songs, but Oriental Records only has their own crappy digital masters. The impression, I got was, the masters may not be around in good quality in the studios, if at all we were able to locate them.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.166.86.128) on: Sat Feb 2 21:43:17 EST 2002
  
  I want to share some of my thoughts on sound quality. We know ARR and IR are different. They are very different in many aspects, including presentation style. IR composes the tune, then adds the orchestration. IR's focus is the melody. I think he probably has a rAgam in mind and most times never strays out of the rAgam for that song. This is a very classical approach to making songs. ARR tries to find a good rhythm for the situation then comes up with a melody (just like many rock/pop music bands ).
  Since for IR, the tune is the focus, he wants to highlight this in the recording. So the vocals are in the foreground and all instruments are behind it and have lesser levels.
  For ARR, the rhythm is important, he highlights this by recording the percussion/bass/bells etc very upclose (reverb). The vocals have always have much higher reverb, than say, any IRs song. He has very nice equipment. Sometimes the 'space' around the vocals itself provides a 'nice touch' to the song.
  The recording style of ARR is the one used by POP musicians around the world. It comes out pretty good even on consumer stereo equipment. This is the reason for peoples preference for ARR's style of recording.
  IR's recording quality has been inconsistent. But there are quite a number of good recordings than what the common perception is. These good recordings are not recognised as good recordings because of the 'ambient' presentation of the instruments (for eg. the kick drum may not be as hard as you would want)
  Inspite of the phenomenal success of ARR, IR has stuck to his guns. Only recently, I have seen some recordings which are more 'flatter' than his original style (kAsi, kAthal jAthi..check these out they are very good ..recording and music wise as well) But YSR, has been recording in the same style as ARR for a long time. The equipment, he uses may not be as good as ARR, but it is very comparable. He often records (I think just mixes) in London.
  
  I once tried very hard to locate the master tapes of old IR songs, but Oriental Records only has their own crappy digital masters. The impression, I got was, the masters may not be around in good quality in the studios, if at all we were able to locate them.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Sat Feb 2 22:32:23 EST 2002
  
  Another one to IR's list,
  Intro plucking in Oh butterfly from meera. I have a question from the song Pani vilum. In the second interlude, after the flute solo ends, u hear a guitar and a veena. Is that a veena or a guitar imitating the veena? Cud UV, kiru, or arul or someone clarify pls?
  
  A few songs by AR,
  Lot of songs by AR feature, mostly as a rhythm instrument. But two songs that come into my mind are khamosh raat from Thakshak ( or its equivalent in tamil) and July maadham from Pudhiya mugam. First song featured a guy called Nadaka ( www.nadaka.com ). I read in an interview that rahman insisted on this guy to play for that song. And in the second song it was Prassana who plays that intro. Also listen to Samba samba and Come on come on from Love birds, again by Prassanna. Prassanna again played on Jumbalaka, that has cool spanish style playing.
  
  

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