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Has ARR started the downfall of TFM?

Topic started by OfCourseNot (@ 172.149.139.210) on Sat Jan 26 03:41:08 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Since ARR has joined TFM,we have seen a slow decrease in the quality if TFM. ARR introduced digital music which merely required good practical skills in programmimg and sound engineering. Now we see new MD's sprouting up all over the place and these people have very limited musical talent.
Just recently I read that for the movie "Hey Nee Romba Azhaga irruke" 5 new MD's have been signed. I feel that the talent in TFM is just becoming more and more diluted due to ARR's influence. What do you think about this?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: raycas (@ 212.186.40.21) on: Fri Feb 1 12:47:22 EST 2002
  
  one thing i forgot to add about kannathil muthamittal...well, as someone pointed out, perhaps the reason for the less amount of songs in the film may be, that this time mani ratnam wanted to place the songs rather in the 'background' of the film...to give more importance to the film...and perhaps it's also because of the theme, who knows...one probably has to see the movie...
  just remember: before alaipayuthey's release, it was told that first mani ratnam had thought of making the film without any songs, but then, he decided to add songs, and finally there were 9 (!!!) songs in it...
  
  raycas
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Fri Feb 1 12:48:06 EST 2002
  
  sam, kiru,
  
  i would be very happy if you could i/p info on my doubt as well..
  
  many people say "vellai pookal" is like an unplugged song. I have heard nirvana , GM eric clapton and our own colonial cousins in unplugged.
  
  now I understand some basic fundas of what unplugged means.. but iwould like to know your input in this regard...
  
  do you have any other observations on other unplugged songs in tfm
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Fri Feb 1 13:28:20 EST 2002
  
  Kiru
  
  I second your opinion, PP was one good album that unfortunately went unheralded. Esp. "Manmada Masam" is the most innovative and complete song, in terms of the rhythm, vocals and arrangements, I've heard in recent times; must rank as one of ARR's best innovation.
  
  I loved "nee thaan" for its surprisingly(for ARR) linear flow, and the title song for its surprises in the charanam; "athisaya thirumanam" and "moondrezhuthu" were very modest in comparison IMO..
  
  I've said this earlier, ARR's misfortune with PP was that KB's way too old, jaded and out of touch to make even a half-decent effort at picturising these novel songs. How wonderful it would've been for someone like Farhan Akhtar to handle manmada maasam??? ARR seems to have hit a bad patch with some mediocre directors in Tamil - Praveen Gandhi, KS Ravikumar, and now KB (in present form) - and one can only hope Maniratnam can turn things around..
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Fri Feb 1 13:35:24 EST 2002
  
  Isn't mediocrity where its at these days, in general, in not just TFM but the Indian Film Industry, in general?
  
  Digression:
  Has anyone listened to Nitin Sawhney's latest album?
  It's called Prophesy. Amazing grooves and farout use of media and sound. Check it out.
  
  End Digression.
  
  
• From: Uv (@ 134.113.202.17) on: Fri Feb 1 16:00:47 EST 2002
  
  Unplugged: my take on this is
  In 'MTV unplugged' program artist peform in MTV studio for live audience without any electronic gadgets for eg rock artist will be allowed to use only acoustic guitars,grand piano,cello or double bass basically no electronic gadgetry(no distortion,delays)and no keyboards.
  ARRs 'Vellai Pookal' comes close to sounding like a performance similar but guitar tremalo and fretless bass used sounds very much electronic but otherwise close to'unplugged' ;)
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 213.1.45.2) on: Fri Feb 1 16:10:13 EST 2002
  
  Naaz, this is the other Sam(andrew lloyd webber and so on...)
  Yeah, i've got pretty much all Nitin Sawhney's albums, and boy do i love them- him as well as Talvin Singh. Nitin Sawhney, is another very clever man. he travelled all around the world to record that album. he even did an interview with Nelson Mandela (and uses a line in one of the songs, 'We are free to be free'.
  he has previously praised ARR. likewise, Tlavin Singh has included ARR's theme music to Bombay on one of his albulms- sorry for the digression :)
  Moving back to ARR and the tfm music,Sangamam, is a classic example of how wrong it is to say ARR is based soley on digital programming. Listening to Sangamam, WOW. that is one amazing album. and the main theme of the music, is basic, classic, caranatic music,anything moderatly westernised, or digitally sounding, is minimal and just adds to enhance the beauty of our earthly instruments.
  If your not happy with this, i stick an arm out and say listen to ARR's Lagaan. ok, its not part of tfm, but its part of music, and what amazing music it is. the use of our oldest, most simple instruments, mixed with traditional western classical music.
  ARR has studied the work of great Western musicians such as Motzart, and has emulated stlyistics that he uses in his own work.ARR creates balance in his music.its just another feature to his outstanding musical talent.
  thanx
  take care
  Sam(actually, i'm gonna call myself Sam P so that people dont get confused)
  
  
  
• From: anjali (@ 64.210.248.135) on: Fri Feb 1 16:59:04 EST 2002
  
  ARR has nothing to do with mozart, lets not get two very different styles messed up here.
  
  
• From: arun_uk (@ 195.99.125.204) on: Fri Feb 1 17:59:22 EST 2002
  
  Sam P
  
  Do you have any references/links to evidence on ARR's research/interest in Mozart's music?
  I don't know if this is what is called 'taking things too far'.
  Anjali is right in her/his vehement objection to this bit of your posting. Nevertheless I agree with some parts of your last post.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Fri Feb 1 18:00:06 EST 2002
  
  To add to UV's info,
  Bharat, if u listen or listened to Bryan Adams, listen to Summer of 69, and 18 till I die from the albums 'So far so good' and '18 till I die' respectively. Then listen to the same 2 songs from the album Bryam Adams MTv unplugged. Then u can understand what they mean by unplugged. U need not buy the cassetes, they shud be available somewhere on the net.
  
  When the rock n roll started in the 50's, they started using electric guitars that made possible to play some grooves that are not that easy on a acoustic. Towards the 70's Black Sabbath revolutionised the sound of rock, they being the pioneers of the 'heavy metal' sound. With the help of electric amps, and foot pedals and other gear, Rock sound became more and more electric oriented. And later so many other 'sounds' came with the help of newer gear. And again its not just the gear that help at a new sound, it is also dependent on the artist's skill and cleverness. Nirvana was the pioneer of the grunge sound, Metallica is famous for its power chords (power chord is what u get when u strum the top 3 strings of a guitar when it is normally tuned), and so on. Unplugged shows give us a glimpse into how these songs sound when we strip them of this "electric help" (of course playing with these gear is not an easy thing), 'un-plug the instrument'. The instruments used are all acoustic. Rock is more of live performances than studio recordings. And when u play live u dont want to play the same thing again and again, u need some variation within the same song. Unplugged is one such outlet, they showcase the artist's ability at singing or playing the instruments. Now if u ask if the symphonies (acoustic instruments, no extra gear) are unplugged, in one sense they are, but unplugged is a term more associated with Rock music.
  
  Vellai pookal is not an 100% unplugged number as pointed out by UV, the elec guitar being used. Replace the electric with another string instrument like a dobro, and use a acoustic bass, u can do it unplugged.
  
  
  
• From: Sam P (@ 213.120.56.33) on: Fri Feb 1 19:39:43 EST 2002
  
  In studying western classical music, to the standard of highest attainment, no matter who you are, Motzart, Bach and other composers, are a requirement. you cannot achieve the graded standard without studying these music forms.i'm not saying that ARR has specifically studied Motzart, but i'm saying he has familiarity in this area. please dont get me wrong; i meant it in the form that his wide musical scope, adds to the 'difference' and unique style he has.
  sorry bout that.
  thanx
  take care
  Sam (P)
  
  
• From: Sam P (@ 213.120.56.33) on: Fri Feb 1 19:42:00 EST 2002
  
  Btw Sam, great way of putting unplugged :)its good.
  
  
• From: UV (@ 216.40.243.22) on: Fri Feb 1 21:35:21 EST 2002
  
  Nicely explained Sam((@ 213.120.56.33)
  btw did you happen to listen those songs I mentioned any comments about the songs will be nice
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.166.86.128) on: Sat Feb 2 01:42:28 EST 2002
  
  UV, Sam you guys nailed the definition of unplugged. Somehow I cant seem to enjoy veLLai pookkaL..I get reminded of many other guitar songs by IR thatI cant concentrate on this. Thank god..otherwise ARRs arrangements are always different from IR I can listen to them without comparision..but this song is an exception, I think.
  One important physical concept, rock music, exploits is - 'feedback'. You can see the guitarist trying to play in front of the speakers (so that the guitar microphone will pick up its own sound )..this leads to an effect, very similar to the one seen in auditoriums where tamil music orchestras play film songs :)
  I am sure ARR is good in harmony..but if you want to listen to really crazy versions of it ..IR is the man .IMHO..god the melody layers go in all directions..stay out of phase and finally align themselves etc..
  
  
• From: Sam P (@ 62.7.142.193) on: Sat Feb 2 09:13:39 EST 2002
  
  Kiru,
  On the point of feedback, i think that is the a fundemental part of 'rock', or 'grunge' genre of music. i have listned to many of these types of artists, and the defining aspect of their music, is the distortion. as soon as you take this out, you lose the 'rock' or 'grunge' genre. this is something that tfm has not yet fully experienced. there have been hints of guitar with distortion, but nothing has been based on this style of music. personally, i dont think it would go down too well with tfm listeners, but i stand to be corrected. some rock music can be horrible to listen to (just like any type of music), but with Rock, i think that you have to have an aquired taste for that music.
  I cant comment on Vellai Pookal and comparisons to IR cause i haven't felt the full IR experience. i was only old enough to start properly appreciating music just before ARR's Roja came out. living in England, its sometimes hard to get out of the new more Westernised tunes. i would love it if someone could recommend some real classic IR stuff.
  thanx
  take care
  Sam P
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.202.17) on: Sat Feb 2 11:53:02 EST 2002
  
  Guys
  As I mentioned earlier and with refering to your postings.
  Rocks heavily depends on electronic gadgets
  like Distortion,delay and these gadgets vary depending what type of Rock music you are playing from classic rock down to metal or heavy metal or punk and so forth. And remeber without the feedback there is no way for the performer to hear what he is playing..
  
  coming back to unplugged
  The one great unplugged song i have heard is by 'Eagles' they played their 'Hotels of California' so beautifully i actually didnt miss the electronic sound at all ,the guitar lead was done with acoustic guitars(strumming and plucking) man it had its own effect.
  
  The tamil audience i dont think will appreciate too much of distortion and other rock concepts the only exception so far is 'Mustafa' song by ARR where he has superbly blended rock and reggae(jamaican)rthym -great job.
  
  Now to IRs some great classic guitar peices most of the using acoustic guitars
  And these song unfortunately most of you wont even recollect[that also goes show however great the song musically ie chord struct,Orchstn etc still sometimes fail to hit the audience -thats really a shame!! :( ]
  
  I am listing only few which are my favourits
  1)Ilya nila - everyone heard of this
  2)Poove Sembupoove - excellent guitar plucking
  2)Paadiva thendrale(mudivila Arambam-1984)
  3)Tholil mela -ninvellam nithya 1982-This is one of funky rock peice with african type rthym
  triple congos used to its full extent
  a song ahead of its time ;) some really heavy punches as far bass notes goes
  4)Pazhya sogangal-Irs unplugged i guess a song hardly heard by anyone but man sure beautiful guitar peice sung by IR
  There is excellent article written by Guitar Prasanna you can read it at raajangham.
  
  More on Arrs song later..
  
  

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