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LAGAAN LOOSES OSCAR FALLS IN "NO MAN'S LAND"FROM BOSNIA.

Topic started by SHYAMSUNDAR.U. (@ 61.11.79.75) on Mon Mar 25 01:59:38 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

VERY IRONIC in a picture on cricket(LAGAAN) the oscar award has landed in "no man's land" from BOSNIA.SADLY,SHYAM SUNDAR.U.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Saketh@Atlanta (@ 66.56.8.71) on: Mon Mar 25 23:14:56 EST 2002
  
  What is a musical, Bharath?. Just curious...
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Mon Mar 25 23:15:27 EST 2002
  
  >>Culture is a Commodity. Multinationals are earthly Gods. Money is the sun moon and the stars.
  Only fools see Appreciation where there is nothing else but Commerce. <<<
  
  Well said Naaz !
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Mar 26 00:59:31 EST 2002
  
  The idea that only Hollywooed movies are dominated by Guns (not Roses) and Indian movies are not is a touch mythical, cosmician. All evidence in Indian Mainstream Cinema points to the contrary when you line up releases in the major languages (esp. hindi, tamizh, telegu.) of India. While the guns in these films maybe minimal (even that seems like an understatement) our cinematic protagonists and antagonists make up with some interesting reasons to get into fisticuffs and unleash general mayhem. These instances of violence, which are by now means short or subtle, have the same guises as in American "War" Movies (ever notice how the Americans appropriate every major turn in WWII as an outcome of their ingenuity, in all Hollywood retellings and reimaginings?), and these are basic: Honour (fight) Justice (fight) Oppression (fight) - only the indian versions are overwhelmingly sentimental, apparently in an effort to make all that gore and arson worthwhile.
  
  So far - the only Western (the other great american myth - wherein bullets and blood are roti and dal)
  movie to win Best Picture and a host of other awards was Unforgiven. An irony of ironies - it was about a man who wanted to leave the meaninglessness of violence in his life behind him!
  
  What more can I say?
  
  Stereptypes are Stereotypes. The skin colour is incidental.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Tue Mar 26 01:07:59 EST 2002
  
  >>While the guns in these films maybe minimal (even that seems like an understatement) our cinematic protagonists and antagonists make up with some interesting reasons to get into fisticuffs and unleash general mayhem.<<
  
  Guns in our films is more of an inspiration from Hollywood masalas...but you have a point..India's greatest philosophies stem from a war setting - Ramayana and Mahabharata..so basically it's more like a way of the world !
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Tue Mar 26 04:00:54 EST 2002
  
  Bharath, I wasnt giving u a lecture on musicals. I was jus reacting ur brilliant statement that the India u know only has normal people.
  
  Naaz, "Somberiththanam" in not a good choice. I'd call it the tendency to exhibit inertia.
  
  
  
• From: ADREAMER (@ 65.59.10.10) on: Tue Mar 26 04:37:54 EST 2002
  
  Cosmician, thanks for your perceptiveness. i don't usually edit my first drafts, so my thoughts may not have made complete sense. Bharath, i happen to have Brahmin heritage. Why I speak of 'cheri' is that i did not understand why some of my brahmin acquaintances used the word when they got upset with some of our kin (this happened in the US too as recently as a few months ago. well, some people' life experiences are different.)
  
  (i am a guy with fair skin and I found it worked to my advantage a lot. yes, there are brahmins of darker complexion too. what i implied is on a general level, the fairer group exploits their advantages and the insecurities of the darker people. this was how colonialims took place, fairer skin - insecure, found ways to control others, darker skin left things to the almighty, fate and complacence. about contradiciton, that is the beauty of thought. nothing is thought with no contradiciton to feed it.)
  
  I am not brining communal disenchantement here but a little more understanding of the inherent element of prejudices that motivate us, and how groups of people judge other groups of people.
  
  this is not a perfect world, that is why there are prejudices. to make it perfect, we may not have much time left. Lots of nuclear /weapon tests were made to ensure end of cold war, development of missiles - to protect from whom? birth of oscar winning movies at the cost of predicted carbonization of our mother earth.
  
  
• From: arun_uk (@ 213.121.212.121) on: Tue Mar 26 08:29:23 EST 2002
  
  Adreamer
  
  I believe I get the point you are trying to make(atleast from your last post).
  
  There is more than a grain of truth when you say
  "a little more understanding of the inherent element of prejudices that motivate us, and how groups of people judge other groups of people"
  
  
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 66.137.224.62) on: Tue Mar 26 09:11:18 EST 2002
  
  steven speilberg in his career of movie making had a policy called "no gun" policy. He first broke that in indana jones series (there maybe some exceptions)
  
  and wud you believe he has like 6-7 movies in hollywoods tope 20 list.
  
  saying lagaan, a pacifist movies represents the indian idealogy... is like saying beautiful mind is a non-violence movie representing their idealogy.. these r simply exception
  
  cosmician,
  
  i agree with u.. i think lagaan minus the songs would have had a etter chance.
  
  i am personally irritated with this song dance, naval sequence culture. It is completely backward and irritating.. makes us look like fools..
  
  it seems when that lagaan clip was shown some of the audience jeered.
  
  ok now u wud say.. what do they know about our culture etc... the point is its not our culture and they know it.. we pretend not to know it..
  
  
  saketh@atlanta,
  
  musical to say simply wud have artists singing and dancing as part of the screenplay. the song dance sequence are part of the movie running time and its in the foreground.
  
  this is just a simple explanation..
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Mar 26 09:32:48 EST 2002
  
  If movies grow out of a collective "socio-cultural psyche" (which is homogenous or monolithic) as cosmician suggests, I am sorry Bharath, songs and dances in indian cinema (however embarassing) are here to stay...But how much does this have to do with the REALITY which is India? If Americans seem "trigger happy" (their niche) then Indians take tappanguththu breaks after emptying their guns or amble into Tulip fields (in Amsterdam!!) for a breezy duet. Movies grow out of socio-cultural psyche? Oh dear, now there is no way out of this endless song-and-dance impulse. It is "us" after all...Or is it?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Mar 26 10:19:58 EST 2002
  
  The first African-American woman to win the Best Actress Oscar in 74 years of the Academy Awards history is Halle Berry. Look how long it took for Americans to recognise one of their (non-white) own....
  
  I see hope - and lots and lots of time - for an Indian film to bring home the coveted (and overhyped) accolade.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Tue Mar 26 10:56:54 EST 2002
  
  I dont mind songs in movies. There is movie like Moulin rouge. But I hate songs/dance being a common denominator in all indian mmovies.
  
  If movies in india are also classified as musical, drama, action. I would atleast have an option to ignore the musicals..
  
  now even to watch some good movies i have to sit through some really horrible songs..
  
  its not socio-cultural psyche .. its just that when we started making movies in the 40's and 50's. The only people we cud learn from and look uptoo were hollywood. They were making musicals then. So we started to make musicals.
  
  unfortunately our music became more popular than our movies and when hollywood wised up and let go of songs and dances.. we were unfortunately addicted to such song dance sequences.. and cudnt let go..
  
  the advantage of hollywood is highly literate audience so sci-fi and other comlex stories wud sell. plus an evolving alternate medium of MTV had a ventilation for musicals talent. they also were always in the cutting edge of technology. A good novel writing culture that could be made for movies. And even the concepts in a novel had alladvantages that movies had.
  
  india had none of the above..we unfortunately fell into a melodramatic quick sand. crying was considered good acting. we had developed song dance sequence so well into movies that it is impossible to do away with it..
  plus we cant have complex stories (B center and C center audience) so we have to stick to the boring family dramas and other issues.
  
  half of our movies dont reflect india..but they inturn have made as emotional maudlins..
  
  
• From: vaal_payyan (@ 169.144.118.138) on: Tue Mar 26 11:15:39 EST 2002
  
  
  hollywood movie pathu copy adichutu avanaglukey pottu kamichu, idhuku oscar kudukalainu sonna enna nyayam. i heard the 'lagaan' theme was lifted from a movie which portrays similar event happening in an african country. i dunno whether its true, but i wouldnt be surprised if it is. maybe somebody here can enlighten me on this.
  
  IMHO an oscar winning movie should be ~100% original and creative. well, i cant say much about 'lagaan' since i havent watched it. i was afraid i couldnt stand watching the actors playing cricket like 'gilli'. if u have watched hrithik play cricket in KKKG, u know what i mean. now that 'lagaan' is an oscar nominated material, i understand its much better than that.
  
  if 'crouching tiger & hidden dragon' can win an oscar, a KS Ravikumar movie can win an oscar too. the key is to make the movie in a way those big guys like it.. make it more realistic eventhough the concept is fictitious. obviously, making actors sing in the movie along with a string of women in lesser clothes for no freakin reason doesnt look real.
  
  
• From: (^!^) (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Tue Mar 26 11:18:47 EST 2002
  
  Bharath: Lemme take a wild guess! 'Bollywood calling' is one of your favorite movies of all times. Welcome home brother! :-)
  
  
• From: (^!^) (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Tue Mar 26 11:23:29 EST 2002
  
  CTHD won at the Oscars only in the technical categories (not in the big name actor/actress/director/picture categories). adhuvum Hindi cinema thaan. azhagaana poNNa kidnap paNNittu avaLoda tent kku vaasalla ukkaandu emotional solo paaduravan, pinna vEra enga irukka mudiyum? :)
  
  
• From: vaal_payyan (@ 169.144.118.138) on: Tue Mar 26 11:45:51 EST 2002
  
  (^!^)
  chumma oru pechuku CTHD example-a sonnen :-)
  
  Naaz,
  "The first African-American woman to win the Best Actress Oscar in 74 years of the Academy Awards
  history is Halle Berry. Look how long it took for Americans to recognise one of their (non-white)
  own...."
  
  do u know that african american 'men' have won academy awards before? now, are u telling me racists are also male chauvinist pigs?
  i guess u are confusing the categories as well. Halle Berry is the first to win 'Best Actress' award. Doesnt mean african americans have never won in other categories before (best supporting actor/actress, etc).
  
  enough of racism BS. isnt it always easy to put the blame on others. now lets talk if the movie is really worth an oscar or any other appreciation for that matter.
  
  
• From: sarat (@ 128.192.5.156) on: Tue Mar 26 11:52:39 EST 2002
  
  Why do all Hollywood movies have a token black guy in them? Other than Denzel W and now Will smith, most other movies have black guys in them just because they need to.
  Now isn't that similar to desi movies having songs in them because it has become something that needs to be there?
  
  

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