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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Wed Sep 10 13:53:00 EDT 2003
  
  Jag, Maddy
  Please ignore.. there is no reason in answering people like this..
  
  Maddy!!
  Special request, if you dont use slang language in other threads it is appreciated. As of now, i see only a few people post and respond..
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.132.52) on: Wed Sep 10 13:58:03 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  .....However if you take carnatic or tamilish music to north they are not very receptive.....
  
  IMO when ARR is so popular and the northies accept his music he shudve attempted to do this in some songs. frm the begining of his career ARR has given western pop music and hindustani music to us tamils and norths both alike. he has never attempted to take our music to them. only after an attempt u can judge on the outcomes. but without attempting how can u....?
  
  HE has done enough for Tamil Nadu and he has also earned the Title of "Mozart of Madras" giving pride to me as a Madras citizen!
  
  for u it may be true but i cannot become proud bcos somebody gains popularity. i can be proud only if he has taken my culture and music to world platform and win over the hearts of them and getting due recognition for us. until then....iam sorry.
  
  regarding the TIS project watever uve said has been answered by jag and MIL, i accept their answers.
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.133) on: Wed Sep 10 20:41:38 EDT 2003
  
  rajasaranam,
  
  
  I see that you see it is an imperative for a popular tamilian musician to propogate his culture, art etc with the medium he is addressing.
  
  
  ARR does not think like you. His job is to give music so that the audience he targets like that music. He wants to give hindustani music to northies becos he knows they like it. Very Simple.
  
  
  HE has no other motive than giving music that is enjoyable. He gave a very western 'BOYS' becos he wanted teenagers (his audience) to enjoy it. I feel that he should not care for comments like it is western, not very tamilish, not very indian and all that.
  
  As long as he is doing justice to the audience he targets he shud be l;eft alone.
  
  If you feel ARR is to be condemned you may feel so. But I am sure ARR thinks it is more important for him to satisfy his target audience rather than being fanatical about his mother toungue home culture. I am not saying it is wrong to be. Just saying ARR clearly feels it is not his business!
  
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.133) on: Wed Sep 10 20:48:06 EDT 2003
  
  Jag,
  
  Yes I know many temples in the dravida country open the shrine by having an oodhuvar sing thevaram thru the microphone. It is very prevalent.
  
  You can take th example of so many saints who have openly said that VEdas and scriptures should never be conveyed through the microphone. In fact Vedas are to be passed on from generatiuon to generation by hearing and not by writing and documenting. But it has become necessary to write the vedas to write its accompanying Bhashyas.
  
  
  Again and again and again. I am not at all condemning IR for TIS project. He can do whatever he wants. I am just saying that an MD chooses what he wants to do and how he should do it. IR does not even allow the director or producer to dictate anything to him when they get tunes from him. How the hell can we expect ARR to give us what we want viz. tamil musical elements in north indian albums. It sounds to harsh to me.
  
  
  We should not question his professional choices. He has shown results in the north by attempting their kind of music. He knows their pulse clearly. I hope he does not do stupid things in the name of experimentation and lose his focus.
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.133) on: Wed Sep 10 20:49:55 EDT 2003
  
  Jag,
  
  I think you can refer Vaidhyanatha Dheekshitam, an authority on Shstras to find out if Vedas can be told through Microphone.
  
  Moreover, reciting few lines and giving Bhashyam through microphone is different from reciting a whole Purushasuktham or Sri Suktham through microphone.
  
  
• From: MusicInLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Wed Sep 10 22:45:10 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  I am getting a little confused with your explanations. can you elaborate (about the Microphone/Vedas)
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.242) on: Wed Sep 10 23:53:42 EDT 2003
  
  MIL,
  
  The Vedas have been passed on to us thru eons by no medium (such as paper, audio, video)and only by recital and hearing. The rule to be followed for vedas is that they should not be mixed with technology like microphone etc.
  
  However nowadays we dont realy care for such things and we get numerous casettes on Vedas. But according to the shastras Microphone should never be used to Vedas.
  
  Also women should not recite the vedas.
  
  
• From: Bala (@ 143.115.159.54) on: Thu Sep 11 09:34:42 EDT 2003
  
  But the whole arguement here is not on ARR using Hindustani in Hindi films... he does that most of the times in tamil movies too... ARR is a genius.. noone can deny that.. but the question here is Y such a genius from our place(Tamilnadu) is not ready to promote our art? that is really painful.. thats where Shankar and ARR differs from Kamal and IlayaRaja.. Shankar and ARR always drags us towards the western culture.. whereas the latter wants the westeren guys to look at what we have.. and how great it is.. We can understand.. that ARR wanted to prove himself to the world that he is a genius by opting their art.. but once he has proven himself that he is the master.. y don't he cater the same people what our art is..He is capable of that... When ROja came.. south indian film industry was totally dominated by the born genius IR... ARR has given a different dimension to the music.. what we were not use to...He clearly drew the attention of the cine viewers..everyone said that, that is going to be the end of IR.. i don't know what those critics were intended to.. birth of a new genius will never kill the existing one.. thats been proven down the years...How dare u guys say that our music is not appealing in the internation arena.. shame on u.. then how come Sadma won the heart of northies.. still i have seen some americans listen to How to name it and nothing but wind... is that not a tamil music? better think twice and thrice before u guys give those statements... Our tamil music is versatile and IR expertised in every nuance of it..This is quite unfortunate that his symphony is still not out... We got to encourage his efforts in getting Thiruvasagam as a symphony... and insist ARR to come up with something like that to exhibit our culture to the world..
  
  
• From: Bala (@ 143.115.159.54) on: Thu Sep 11 09:41:51 EDT 2003
  
  I request ARR to take up the theme of ponniyinselvan and compose the music for it...like the way he did for Bombay Dreams...
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Thu Sep 11 10:11:06 EDT 2003
  
  V
  I kind-a disagree to what you said about Vedas and Microphones, Which veda-verse does that tell?
  Because, i have been learning for quite sometime now.. All I know is Rudram, chamakam, namakkam, sukthams, upanishads, and whatever the book Thaitriya mantrakoshams prescribe.. I am not an authority, i will surely have to review this one with my Guruji who knows more meaning and depth.. i surely cannot comment till then.. But I do accept that it was passed on by Gurus when they went to vedic schools since Vedas are more surely concerned in expressing each sound, the octaves are managed perfectly.. it was only till they found a way to write down as in the Ola-chuvadis..
  The woman thing is also not said to my knowledge.. coz it was created by men and followed by men, it never reached the women folk, now they are different, actually in the ashram nearby my house in Plainsboro NJ, USA, women learn vedas, understand them and recite them, i dont see anything wrong with it...
  
  Probably instead of Women should not Recite, was coz they were not given an opportunity to learn..
  
  But if you see Sanskrit grammar is very complete ( my master used to tell me, every rule has an exception, but in Sanskrit the exception is also a rule, these were when i learnt sanskrit). that is probably, the way the hymns/sloka verses were written in Vedas could not be modulated to other swaras.. Probably i might be wrong here too..
  
  This is nothing to do with the topic so Sorry for the disgression..
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.218.72) on: Thu Sep 11 13:06:50 EDT 2003
  
  hello bala,
  it is practically impossible to impose our culture and music on some other people...i'll give u a example- can u listen to opera music for more than 10 minutes??? that's how westerners will feel abt. our music isn't it??? see western music or pop has become like english lang. which is reqd to transmit any music to reach other ppl.. be it carnatic or folk...... ever wondered y punjabi folk songs are such a hit throughout India??? bcos it comes with good western background....... so we have to open up and shut down........
  
  (btw Kamal's french kisses on heroines is our culture???)
  
  
• From: Manav (@ 24.59.97.36) on: Thu Sep 11 21:47:21 EDT 2003
  
  MIL,
  
  Yes Women do recite Vedas nowadays. What more they even recite Gayatri!!!!!!!
  
  The vedas induce certain vibrations in the nadis and move certain chakras in our body. Women should abstain from them becos they experience the menstrual cycle and the recital vibratuions act on their reproductive system.
  
  But nowadays who cares
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.234.162) on: Thu Sep 11 22:28:51 EDT 2003
  
  i typed "so we have to open up and shut down........"
  
  it shuld have been "so we have to open up and not shut down........"
  
  
  
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Sep 12 13:05:06 EDT 2003
  
  Manav,
  What i was trying to say is, there is nothing in the Veda verse that prohibits anybody from anything (to my knowledge), Why i started this is to say, there is a difference in HOW VEDAS are recited and How Tamizh songs from Arunagirinathar (like thirupugazh), Thiruvasakam, thiruvenbava, thirupavai differ.
  I hail Dhandapani thesikar for doing the popularization of Tamizh music and i congratulate IR on doing this.
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Sep 12 13:07:24 EDT 2003
  
  Manav,
  I am not a stringent believer in in-equality. I think everybody should have the knowledge of what/why..
  I have been reciting Gayathri almost for 15 years now (prada, sayam sandhi), recently i have been into the "No-time" cribbing world, you dont know how sad it feels...
  I cannot also believe how powerful those mantras are to bring serenity and peace.
  
  

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