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Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

The popular notation used on this page. The twelve notes of an octave are the following.

1   2   3   4   5   6   7  8   9  10  11  12
S  R1  R2  R3  G3  M1  M2  P  D1  D2  D3  N3
       G1  G2                     N1  N2

"Raga based film songs" Database | Old Database | Indian Classical Music Forum | Hindi Raaga of Songs Thread

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vijay (@ 208.61.227.242) on: Mon Jan 21 12:00:35 EST 2002
  
  IR, thanks for the good start. I am aware of only a few like Athi, Misra chaapu, khanta chaapu, roopakam etc.I believe thats why Athi is also called Chatusra jaathi triputa taala, as it is a combo of one of these basic types+jathi..but I dont think they rarely mention this long name when they teach you this specific beat cycle, right? :-)
  
  1. I believe khanta chaapu is very difficult to sing to, right? do vidhwans try ato avoid compositions in this tala as much as possible during a concert? for example, how often does a krithi like "hecharika gaaraara" gets rendered on stage?
  
  2. in case you know of any sites or if you happen to know the konnakol for these seven basic talas and their combos pl. let me know when you are at leisure..
  
  3. As for examples,
  
  for ta chaapu what about
  
  Meetadha oru veenai?
  starting of adhisaya thirumnam(?)
  
  as far as I can remember.
  
  I need some examples for roopakam if you remember any. I'll come back later and see if I can remember more.
  
  
  
  
• From: kalarani (@ 216.65.221.154) on: Mon Jan 21 12:08:28 EST 2002
  
  Mr IR, that was a great way to educate interested students like me. Do you take classes?
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.62.117.121) on: Mon Jan 21 12:10:53 EST 2002
  
  Mr. Kalarani :-) Sooryanukke torch aa :-) welcome to ROS thread :-)
  
  vijay - would get back to you :-)
  
  
• From: IR (@ ) on: Mon Jan 21 12:34:54 EST 2002
  
  vijay - check this out - this gives excellent information :-) http://www.carnatica.com/sangeet/layanubhava2.htm
  
  yes the chaapu varieties are difficult to sing but there are lots of compositions in these popular chaapu varieties as it poses a challenge to the musician to both compose and sing! In a concert, musicians usually prefer to go for a complicated beat pattern to prove their mettle!
  
  and yes starting of adhisaya thirumaNam seems to be in Kanda chappu. need to listen to meettadha veeNai
  
  Hope this helps
  
  
• From: pae (@ 168.168.67.112) on: Mon Jan 21 12:53:52 EST 2002
  
  As Melakartha, there is Thalakartha too :-) See this link for more info http://www.angelfire.com/mb/mridhangam/tala.html
  
  
• From: pae (@ 168.168.67.112) on: Mon Jan 21 12:59:03 EST 2002
  
  Arunagirinadhar's Thiruppugazh songs have unique beat patterns, such as seven 3/4, five one-eigth etc., and rare tala names do sneak in too.
  
  
• From: thALa villai (@ 64.105.34.73) on: Mon Jan 21 13:09:40 EST 2002
  
  IR, avvaLavuthAnA ? I am waiting for more information. Thanking you in advance.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 151.201.36.232) on: Mon Jan 21 18:27:11 EST 2002
  
  TFM and Western Beats!...
  
  You may often see this or hear from people when you discuss beats- 2/3 or 3/4 or 4/4 . Many have asked me to explain this pertaining to film music. I thought I will give a try to help them understand the basics.
  
  Beat Sigatures : First thing a piano teacher puts in the left corner of the notation note is the time signatures. What the does this denote? in the Following I have tried to explain what does it mean?
  
  The most standard way for the time signature in western music with one number directly above the other.
  
  First let us take the an example 6/8 , what does the upper number denote?
  
  In a measure, the upper number denotes how many notes of the "type" represented by the lower number 6/8 time the lower number (8) would be the denominator of the fraction one eighth (1/8), confused!... -- in a nut shell
  there are six - eighth notes in a measure of 6/8.
  
  
  Like wise in a 4/4 time - there are 4 quarter note (1/4). 4/4 (I have heard some carnatic musicians call it as "eka" talam) is the most common signature in movie songs. The main reason being framing dance steps for 4/4 is some what simple. Try this at home, play a tamil song clip vidoe and mute the audio and play a country rock song (which is also 4/4 often), they might sync very well. (You can also do this for fun to see out Indian stars dance for dixy chicks songs) my point here is it basically boils down to 4/4 beat.
  
  There are also other beats like 3/4 which is means in a measure we have 3 quater notes,
  (or 3 quater notes makes us a measure or a bar.) This is also called WALTZ.
  There is nice song by Maharajapuram in his light album on Lord Murga,
  "azgana myil medhu amarum kanda", check in the old song from sivandha man,
  "oru raja rani idam" the second part of the song changes to waltz. but comes back to 4/4.
  
  After reading the above, for many a question might arise? (Say yes if it does'nt also :)
  
  what kind of note represents one beat, and how many beats are in a measure?
  This classification of this as whole is called a "meter", many dfer in newtfmpage might use this word and say song "a" has the same meter of song "z" What is a meter in music? to find the meter first we need to know the division of beats in a measure.
  
  "simple time" : a beat can be divided into 2 equal parts. While in a "compound time" the beat is divided into 3 equal parts. Meters where the upper part happens to be an even number are simple, (mathematically:that is not divisible by 3 (2, 4 etc.) ) You need to note there are Odd numbered meters which is not divisable by 3, i can try explaining them once you get a grip on this.
  
  
  Meter is often the misused or confused with the word tempo. Many blindly tell they are in same meter, without knowing the tempo aspect, tempo is a speed of the song,
  
  Tip: In midi terminology tempo can range from 50 bpm to 240 bpm. Rajakiya vecha song by IR is about 144bpm.(BPM=Beat per minute). BPM is very important when you compose for indian movies. Various moods has differnt BPMs.like we cannot have a pathos song at 144bpm. (pertaining to 4/4 beat), it will be too fast
  
  Let us see the classification of meter. To classift them we need to know number of beats in a measure. In western music number of beats in a measure are refered by "Duple" and "triple" Duple=2 and triple=3 beats per measure.
  Based on this 2/4 is a simple (or basic ) duple, where 2 beats are divided into 2 eight notes.
  for a duple meter the upper number denotes number of beats in each measure and the lower number denote
  what note gets the beat. In a Compound Meter the upper number can be divided by 3 which denotes beats per measure, and the lower number will denotes kind of note that represents the division hope you guys got it, so next time when some one says same meter you need to fit it into this definition :)
  
  These are my 2.5 cents worth, Hope this helps many here, if you think there are mistakes in this, Pardon me and please correct me, learning is a never ending process to me.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 151.201.36.232) on: Mon Jan 21 18:38:52 EST 2002
  
  Adding to the above, People try to convert or map these western beat signatures with carnatic,
  I dont do this, imo, you cannot strictly map them.
  
  for carnatic ears, 6/8 often sounds like 3/4, many carnatic musicians have told me 6/8 as 3/4
  While same song western signature would be 6/8. ,
  (eg:old msv/tms/mrg combos) Atho antha paravai pola vaza vendum or Enai theriyuma
  Western musicains see it differently. How do they see, if time permits, I will try to explain when people get a grip on the above.
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.62.117.121) on: Mon Jan 21 19:38:38 EST 2002
  
  sriki - good posting :)
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 164.164.142.12) on: Tue Jan 22 09:36:52 EST 2002
  
  I heard 2 songs.one in malayalam film Swati Tirunal, challiye Kunjanumo tum, ST kruthi and the other one Bole re papihara from guddi.one is in vrindavana saranga and the other one in miyan ki malhar. But at some point, both songs sound very similar. can anyone pls explain why ?
  really sorry for asking abt songs in other languages. maranthu,mannithu intha sandegathai theerthu veyyungalen yaaravathu!! thanks in advance.
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 164.164.142.12) on: Tue Jan 22 09:37:39 EST 2002
  
  I heard 2 songs.one in malayalam film Swati Tirunal, challiye Kunjanumo tum, ST kruthi and the other one Bole re papihara from guddi.one is in vrindavana saranga and the other one in miyan ki malhar. But at some point, both songs sound very similar. can anyone pls explain why ?
  really sorry for asking abt songs in other languages. maranthu,mannithu intha sandegathai theerthu veyyungalen yaaravathu!! thanks in advance.
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.182.77) on: Tue Jan 22 11:00:52 EST 2002
  
  Sundari from KM is in Hemavati?
  
  
• From: IR (@ 38.220.167.231) on: Tue Jan 22 11:24:38 EST 2002
  
  Raghu, could it be because of the 2 nishadams? in both the ragas? I was under the assumption that Miyan ki Malhar had more shades of kaanada than Brindavana Saranga or may be am thinking about a totally different raga... would you have links to that song :-)
  
  
  
• From: IR (@ 38.220.167.231) on: Tue Jan 22 12:08:32 EST 2002
  
  Sindhuja - if at all a raga, in its shape or form is noticeable, I would say it is KeeravANi :)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 208.61.227.242) on: Tue Jan 22 12:20:13 EST 2002
  
  is "nallathor veenai seithen" from Marupadiyum close to Ahir Bhairavi?
  
  
• From: IR (@ 38.220.167.231) on: Tue Jan 22 12:21:31 EST 2002
  
  vijay - link for the song?
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 208.61.227.242) on: Tue Jan 22 12:22:50 EST 2002
  
  check dhool
  
  
• From: ashokbalsub (@ 203.197.138.34) on: Tue Jan 22 12:30:18 EST 2002
  
  vijay/IR,
  i would like to join the thread. i am also interested in finding out ragas for cine songs. i have good database with me ( not in soft form). especially, i am severe charukesi raga fan; this song (nalladhor veenai from marupadiyum) was told by many of friends as ahirbhairav; but i don't know it gives me the feeling of charukesi, though the swaras ri,dha & ni are different. please explain.
  
  
• From: ashokbalsub (@ 203.197.138.34) on: Tue Jan 22 12:31:47 EST 2002
  
  small correction in my comment. ni1 is common to both charukesi and ahir bhairav (other words chakravagam)
  
  

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