Raga of song please
Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.
The popular notation used on this page. The twelve notes of an octave are the following.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 S R1 R2 R3 G3 M1 M2 P D1 D2 D3 N3 G1 G2 N1 N2
"Raga based film songs" Database | Old Database | Indian Classical Music Forum | Hindi Raaga of Songs Thread
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: mandu (@ 203.196.129.98)
on: Thu Jan 17 11:26:09 EST 2002
ooOOOO
IR saar,
realize that all too well. do you see the kind of arrogance /indifference/ humour in my self-degradation?? :-) naan tanakku tappa sollalai.. vera yaarum tappu illai nu sonnen. (adulai yeduvadu tappu aa??) i love my taste! ;-) and yes, you are right i enjoy self-degradation.. makes me chuckle!!
btw.. have heard vellai pookal over 35 times since i posted the last message. adengappa! brilliant..
also IR... naan iruvadu vayasu... naan tantrum potta ooru ellam vandu nikkum..
- From: vasya10 (@ 192.35.232.99)
on: Thu Jan 17 11:45:54 EST 2002
yes, vellai pookkal starts of with hamsadhwani. traces of m2- methought - made it kalyani. more over i heard the distinctive "Ni" of kalyani in interludes. i may be wrong for kalyani, but for hamsadhwani i think the "ni" is of a little higher sruti than the ordinary "ni". anyways, as IR says, its better to categorize it has "hamsadhwani" with a "kalyani" feel.
- From: mandu (@ 203.196.129.98)
on: Thu Jan 17 11:46:57 EST 2002
'vellai pookal' mp3 enga kadaikum? raaga.com is tedious.
- From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134)
on: Thu Jan 17 11:57:22 EST 2002
neha,
IR saar idhu thaan neenga podura tantrum-ma? ;-)
- From: mandu (@ 203.196.129.98)
on: Thu Jan 17 12:26:27 EST 2002
kupps,
enne.. vambu paati aa irrukel !! naan tantrum potta ... veedu vizum, glass odayum, oru full ooru vandu nikkum.. pattu ooru ku ellarukkum kaad vallikum! 'IR Saar' represents pongi vaziyara RESPECT!! vokay-aa kupps gaaru??
btw.. tantrum pottu kamikattuma?? (Evil grin)
- From: IR (@ 4.62.117.121)
on: Thu Jan 17 12:46:07 EST 2002
deivame - edho thappa sollitten - mannichukkonga mandu madam :)
btw, am isai rasigai - feminine gender - not rasigan :-) :-) (evil grin) :-)
- From: vijay (@ 208.61.227.242)
on: Thu Jan 17 12:50:11 EST 2002
IR, since we havent had a great deal of discussion on talas here, if you know of some TFM songs not set in common beat cycles, can you pl. mention them? I mean excluding Adi, mishra chaapu etc. Roopakam(not a very rare beat cycle), khanta chaapu etc.
The song "adhisaya thirumanam" in Kannathil Muthamittal, seems to traverse through different beat cycles, have you heard it?
I will come back and read later :-)
- From: mandu (@ 203.196.129.98)
on: Thu Jan 17 13:02:23 EST 2002
achucchooo! Rasigai madam.. onga gender mattinadukku mannikavendum! (sheepish grin)
- From: IR (@ 4.62.117.121)
on: Thu Jan 17 13:02:37 EST 2002
vijay - indha 7/4 5/4 nnu ennamo sriki MS ellam pesuvaanga - enakku adhu puriyave puriyaadhu - carnatic equivalent veNumna sollren - indha beats ellam ppl like sriki or MS can explain better :)
I may be able to translate that information into its carnatic equivalent, if any :)plus, you have excluded the most common talams (Adi, roopakam, m.chapu and k.chapu) :-) MD's usually use a mix and match of these talas - in their 3s, 4s, 5s, 7s or 9s varieties :-)
may be srikanth could talk about non-carnatic beats/cycles used in TFM
- From: vijay (@ )
on: Thu Jan 17 13:16:22 EST 2002
IR, I dont think MS or anyone here know much more than what you do, they just talk in a different language/jargon thats all..:-) In carnatic terms they are talking about different "nadais", thisra nadai, chatusra nadai etc. avlothaan
I think your method of translating everything into carnatic equivalent would work better and help in understanding better..thats the way I understand it too..
BTW, last postla konjam sodhapitten typo..I did NOT mean to include khanta chaapu and roopakam..it should read as "excluding common taalas like adi, mishrsa chaapu etc. and including roopakam(not very rare though), khanta chaapu"
listen to "adhisaya thirumanam" if you can..it has 2 or 3 different beat cycles..
- From: IR (@ 4.62.117.121)
on: Thu Jan 17 13:28:13 EST 2002
:-) vijay - check AP - srikanth is talking about some "key changes" - adhunaala thaan I thought I would have experts explain this better :-) and then may be I could point out carnatic equivalents after that :-)
you are right - the talams are common and fewer in number - but the nadais (3,4,5,7,9) multiplied by the basic tala varieties yield more complex and varying beats!
talking of kanda chapu - from what I remember, I felt adhisaya thirumaNam starts off in this thalam - I may be wrong - would listen to it again tomorrow and let you know (no sound card on my machine at home) :(
- From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.136)
on: Fri Jan 18 07:41:04 EST 2002
Gosh!Ivlavu per-kku KM pidichhudaa?!!And me,being a hardcore ARR fan didn't like it!Lemme try listening to it again!
BTW,mandu,why do u call u'rself so?And where is the "chloride" gone?!(I'm assuming its the same person)
I dunno if u've already explained u'r name,but i'm lazy to go to the "old responses" and at the same time,curious to know the story behind u'r novel name!!!!!!!!!
Care to explain?
- From: ec (@ 141.14.139.162)
on: Fri Jan 18 10:23:35 EST 2002
I like kannathil muthamittal song. Is it a hindustani raaga? Please someone clarify it. Thanks.
- From: IR (@ 38.220.167.243)
on: Fri Jan 18 10:52:08 EST 2002
kannathil muththamittaal has tons of "Kaapi" shades in it...
- From: mandu (@ 203.196.129.98)
on: Fri Jan 18 11:01:31 EST 2002
Sindhuja,
""mandu chloride.. coined by my grandfather. i hated chemistry. he gave up trying to teach me IUPAC names. he said mandai fulla chloride di onnaku. mara mandai ! mara mandai !
so my ammamma retorted .. mandu chloride ! the name stuck.... ""
also, i really haven't been able to pay much attention to the other songs of KM, but Vellai Pookal is definitely a cut above the rest. Very controlled use of percussion and guitars. And the lyrics are brilliant as well. Though I think the audio quality of this track on the net leaves much to be desired.
- From: mandu chloride (@ 203.196.129.98)
on: Fri Jan 18 11:28:42 EST 2002
Also,
which movie was that scene with Karthik and Revathi (I am not too sure about the actors actually).. where the guy and the girl are talking, and the girl's appa is in the same place, and Karthik shouts out to him, "Mr. Chandramoulee... Mr.Chandramoulee .. onga ponnu".. etc etc...
yaarukadu nyabagam irruka plz?
- From: haris (@ 148.87.1.171)
on: Fri Jan 18 12:41:30 EST 2002
mandu- that's mouna ragam. anyways, what's the relevance to 'raga of song'?
- From: Jeera (@ 206.175.176.2)
on: Fri Jan 18 12:49:24 EST 2002
mandu
I guess it is Mouna Ragam - Mani's movie with Karthik, Revathi and Mohan
- From: SV (@ 24.190.108.92)
on: Fri Jan 18 18:31:15 EST 2002
I post this question to IR & Prabhu regarding the positions of swaras on the keyboard.As i went thro the answer posted by prabhu and yourself to my doubt i find that r3 is denoted nowhere. This is just my doubt & i'm not sure if i'm right.Can anyone of you kindly re-post the swaras?...thanks
- From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.83)
on: Fri Jan 18 23:12:53 EST 2002
Mandu,
interesting...!
Your (rather u'r grandfather's)nomenclature surpasses the IUPAC too!
- From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159)
on: Sat Jan 19 01:50:32 EST 2002
dear SV..this is what i feel...r3=ga2
c - s
c#-r1
D -r2 & g1
D#-g2
E -g3
F -m1
F#-m2
G -p
G#-d1
A -d2 & n1
A#-d3 & n2
B -n3
- From: mandu (@ 203.196.129.98)
on: Sat Jan 19 02:17:54 EST 2002
Jeera,
Thanks. :-)
Sindhuja,
Shall forward your compliments to thatha!
Haris,
Sorry, I am not a very 'relavant' person.
- From: mandu (@ 203.196.129.98)
on: Sat Jan 19 02:18:33 EST 2002
typo.. read 'relevant'
- From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.182.108)
on: Sat Jan 19 06:45:00 EST 2002
Mandu
hehe!
BTW,"Sundari" from KM-it is hemavathi right?
- From: lovearr (@ 61.11.83.167)
on: Sat Jan 19 10:43:44 EST 2002
Hello to all Ar fanss """"" KM """" mp3 will be available on """""www.tamilbeat.com www.tamilmp3world.com"""""""""""
Enjoy ar music fantasyyyyyyyyyy
- From: ec (@ 141.14.139.162)
on: Sat Jan 19 14:38:41 EST 2002
IR, again a small doubt: does the kannathil muthamittal song have shades of Desh?! If not, I have to appreciate my carnatic music skill, as usual?!
- From: IR (@ 4.62.117.121)
on: Sun Jan 20 10:54:08 EST 2002
ec :-) u r right... it has shades of kaapi, desh, brindaavani and ........... :-) I guess it does not follow the notes of a single raga and hence has traces of all of these closely related ragas here and there....
- From: vijay (@ 68.51.203.216)
on: Sun Jan 20 15:31:09 EST 2002
IR, I am still waiting for your writeup on taalas :-) (you can forget the adhisaya thirumanam song if there is some problem in listening to it.) I just wanted a general short writeup on rarely used taalas with relevant examples, avlothaan
- From: ec (@ 141.14.139.162)
on: Sun Jan 20 16:30:18 EST 2002
thanks IRji))
- From: IR (@ 4.62.117.121)
on: Sun Jan 20 18:24:43 EST 2002
vijay - you are making me work hard here :-) write up on talas is easy - to identify/pick film songs with unusual beats is a tough :-) would try this week :-)
ec ji :-) u r welcome :-)
- From: vijay (@ 68.51.203.216)
on: Sun Jan 20 19:31:11 EST 2002
IR, maybe then you can just proceed with the writeup and we can collectively pick examples later..
- From: IR (@ 4.62.117.121)
on: Mon Jan 21 11:39:16 EST 2002
vijay, here you go... others, please ignore if this is irrelevant to this thread :-)
The 35 tala scheme is the most popular and widely used beat pattern. YOu must be aware of all this crap. Am still gonna briefly talk a little bit about this as it forms the basis of the tala system. There are 7 basic tala types (I believe it was Purandara dasa who popularised these basic talas by composing 7 alankarams - one in each of these talas!) - Dhurva, Matya, Roopaka, Jhampa, Triputa, Ata and Eka Talas. As you mentioned in one of your postings, the nadai variations of these 7 talas (7*5) gives rise to the 35 tala scheme. (Thisram, Chathusram, Kantam, Mishram, SankeerNam for 3,4,5,7, and 9 respectively!)
If this is way too technical, enna thitta koodathu :-)
Besides the 35 tala scheme, there are also the Chaapu Tala, Desadi tala and the Madhyadhi tala schemes.
But, very few of these talas are popular/commonly used in both Carnatic and film songs. I would be surprised to hear a film song in say DHurva, Matya, Ata, Jhampa talas!!!! The ease of tala flow and the counts make a big difference in composing. It is very easy to compose in 4's or 8's or 3s and hence Aadhi/roopakam varieties are more popular. Again the cycles (nadai) add beauty and I believe all 5 nadais are used in TFM. MS might be able to point out some songs - am very poor at pointing out songs - if you give me an example I can work with it :-)
if this is not what you are looking for, let me know. I can try and explain more on what you want :-) Let me know if you want info on the 3 other tala schemes too..
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