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Shankar-Ehsaan-Loy can be brought to TFM

Topic started by Jay (@ 203.124.234.166) on Tue Jan 28 01:28:13 EST 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Remember the Music Director trio Shankar-Ehsaan-Loy, the music directors of Kamal Hassan's Alavandhaan. They seem to be missing in the Tamil scene for the last 2 years and they are doing really good in the Hindi field. They have given solid musical hits in Hindi such as; Mission Kashmir, Dil Chahtha Hai. I think they can be brought to the Tamil films again. I feel they are definitely better than Deva and a few others. I think they are the best as far as Hindi Film Music goes after A R Rahman.

I would like healthy comments who listen to Shankar-Ehsaan-Loy and have a fair knowledge of Hindi Film Industry.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Ehsaan (@ 202.68.150.4) on: Tue Mar 25 21:45:01 EST 2003
  
  Hi Jyothi we may perform at the IIFA awards which are going to be in London in May.We really do want to work with SPB but havent had the opportunity to do so. Hopefully we will work together soon.
  
  
• From: Ehsaan (@ 202.68.150.4) on: Tue Mar 25 21:52:18 EST 2003
  
  Hi John Barry yes it is really a pity that good orchestration is lost especially in Bollywood with the same dull dholaks and obligato string lines being used to death.This is why I asy that most of our music directors do not even listen to other forms of music except when it comes to copying something. More than influneces I think one should just use their imagination when it comes to orchestration. The other problem here is the use of arrangers who are more interested finally in their payment at the end of the day. The song is not their baby and they will orchestrate it in a cliche way as they always have done.There have been arrangers who have now been around for many years doing the same old things. ARR and us dont use arrangers so the song is our baby from the beginning to the ned. Yes we do use Srinivas Murthy ( ARR 's orchestrastor ) for the string orchestration of our compositions and to conduct the strings which we record in Chennai regularly.Teh string meolides and interludes are composed us and he puts them on paper and assigns the right notes to the right instruments.
  
  
• From: Ehsaan (@ 202.68.150.4) on: Tue Mar 25 21:53:49 EST 2003
  
  Pardon all the typing errors :)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Tue Mar 25 22:42:27 EST 2003
  
  "I listen to a wide wide variety of music from world muisc to jazz to rock and film soundtracks. "
  
  Dear Ehsaan,
  I do recognize your right to your creative freedom to listen and create music as you like. As an expatriate Indian, I am little concerned about our music losing its identity in the process. The music scene in the US, irrespective of all influences, sounds 'American' to my ears. Whether right or wrong, english singers from other countries (like Canada, Ireland, England) are made to sing in a 'neutral' (commercialised/ american) accent.
  When I listen to the latest indian film music, I dont see this 'Indian' flavor in them.
  Are our listeners sick of the classic raaga derived melodies ? Are we uncomfortable with our indian identities, that we want to embrace other dominant cultures and their music ?
  
  I really didnt want to bother you with these questions. Looking at your patience with some of our fellow posters here :), I just thought, why not ? Thanks for your time, either ways.
  
  
• From: bb (@ 12.234.176.52) on: Wed Mar 26 03:54:58 EST 2003
  
  Ehsaan, good point about the arrangers. I guess the same holds true for a Music Director as well. If you are doing 30 films a year, then creating a song becomes a chore, and you wouldn't put in as much creative effort as you do when you have smaller number of films, I guess.
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.197.24.195) on: Wed Mar 26 04:25:46 EST 2003
  
  bb,
  That depends on who the music directoris and why he composes the music .....
  I think Mozart composed as many as 25 symphonies and still i belive each one of them is creative ...
  In my opnion creative does not mean using new sounds ..That anybody can do it with the commerical available loops ...
  The tune should be new and the music kind should be new ....
  
  
• From: Jay (@ 203.124.234.164) on: Wed Mar 26 08:32:32 EST 2003
  
  HELLO I AM JAY, THE MAN WHO STARTED THIS THREAD. AND I AM GLAD THAT MR. EHSAAN HAS PARTICIPATED IN THIS THREAD. THANKS A LOT SIR. I ALSO THANK THE TFM PAGE FOR GIVING ME THIS OPPURTUNITY OF INTERACTING WITH MR EHSAAN. THANKS ADMIN OF TFM.
  
  
• From: Ehsaan (@ 202.68.150.4) on: Wed Mar 26 10:06:14 EST 2003
  
  Hi Kiru
  Frankly the kind fo films being made today unfortunately dont support the classical raga based composition. But there is an inherent Indian ness to the song so to say. The delivery of the voice the articulations and the " harkats " are so very Indian and somehow I dont think that will change. On the other hand I think a good melody is a good melody be it raaga based or western. Basically there is an inhernet problem with a lot fo teh scripts of todays films with " item " numbers etc being forced in to give the film a certain marketability.
  
  
• From: Ehsaan (@ 202.68.150.4) on: Wed Mar 26 10:06:29 EST 2003
  
  Hi Kiru
  Frankly the kind fo films being made today unfortunately dont support the classical raga based composition. But there is an inherent Indian ness to the song so to say. The delivery of the voice the articulations and the " harkats " are so very Indian and somehow I dont think that will change. On the other hand I think a good melody is a good melody be it raaga based or western. Basically there is an inhernet problem with a lot fo teh scripts of todays films with " item " numbers etc being forced in to give the film a certain marketability.
  
  
• From: Ehsaan (@ 202.68.150.4) on: Wed Mar 26 10:08:10 EST 2003
  
  I'd like to add that ultimately all melodies relate to some raaga or the other even if one doesnt consciously base the melody on a raaga.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Wed Mar 26 10:46:24 EST 2003
  
  Ehsaan -
  
  Thank you for sharing your views in this forum. It is a rare opportunity for music-lovers to share their views with the composer. I do so myself, albeit with a bit of caution, as one is never too sure about the "identity" of the person in these parts. But - I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and reap the benefit of batting the breeze myself.
  
  This is a follow-on to the question posed by Kiru, which demands a little more rigor (on your part as well.)
  
  To dismiss, in general terms, the absence of "classical" based compositions as an outcome of "hip" plotlines/narratives, I believe is both facile and disingenous. Film Soundtracks in India have liberally borrowed from other cultures/genres - from C. Ramachandra's "Gorey Gorey O Baanke Chhore..." right down to AR Rahman's "Humma Humma" from Bombay (Twist meets Khaled, in short hand.) This metaphor of multiplicity can be extended to every aspect of Indian culture which has always been open to ideas, influences and absorption - from religion to chilli-garlic Pizza.
  
  It is the attention to detail and cultural ethos which has been cast out in the cold, and this is at the core of Kiru's lament.
  
  While marketability is the bread-butter-and-jam of every commercial venture, there are hundreds of examples from the 70s/80s which have measured up to this impetus WITHOUT compromising cultural/artistic integrity. I understand the pressures, demands and sheer frustration a "creative" person might encounter, where one is only as good as his/her last hit, and the relentless pace of the marketing/money machinery, I don't beleive this has ever NOT been the case. Hence, in my opinion, this is a convenient straw-man which can be blown away with a whisper.
  
  The folly in all this is so in-your-face, that one can't blame one's eyes for missing it. The shift is: The audience has been taken for granted. And to be just as damning, the audience has morphed into one monolithic constituency of Apathy.
  
  Given that the audience for such "hip" music and such "tragic" plotlines falls in the demographic of 14-27 years, all energies are directed to wooing this segment. What's more, this generation either doesn't care, isn't interested, and doesn't give a rat's-ass to issues like culture, context, and authenticity. Sad, but true.
  
  I know that it is not the composer's responsibility to bring the culture back to the people, as that has to be voluntary. However, given the reach and influence film music commands, I believe that the creator's have also settled for the claptrap and complacency.
  
  Sooner than later, the absence of basics and the erosion of ethos will come back to haunt the future generations. But, a generation which doesn't demand and understanding the riches of its own traditions and values does deserve the final nail of "generic."
  
  Specific query: I have listend to the Dil Chhatha Hai album and found it to be zany and apt (given the urbanity of the screenplay.) But something has been bothering me from the first time that I heard the title track - please, could you enlighten me on what " hum ko "rahon" mein milti rahain kushiyan" - the word in quotes, really means, the way it is sung/pronounced?
  
  
  
• From: HP (@ 128.107.253.38) on: Wed Mar 26 10:48:28 EST 2003
  
  Hi Ehsaan,
  
  I am really surprised to see u among we fans discussing about Music. Its definitely a positive sign. Also the speed in which u keep posting messages shows that u r indeed having a great time here. Do Continue ur visit for a long time.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Wed Mar 26 10:51:33 EST 2003
  
  Correction:
  Ehsaan, pardon the post-haste.
  The song line should read: "Hum Ko "Rahon" Mein Yuhin Milti Rahain Khushiyan."
  (It's the whole "detail" thing I was going on about :-))
  
  
• From: Ehsaan (@ 202.68.150.4) on: Wed Mar 26 10:53:36 EST 2003
  
  Hi Naaz u have a point there i guess lets wait and watch and see what happens. The line from Dil Chahta Hai means ' we should meet happiness at every step of our journey' . If u see the film this song happnes when the 3 heros are driving from Bombay to Goa.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Wed Mar 26 10:59:41 EST 2003
  
  Ehasaan -
  Wow, that was the quickest comeback!
  Thanks for explaining the line in the song. I appreciate it. My query was about "Rahon". If one is talking about "Road to Happiness/or Happy Encounters on the Road" - wouldn't you say that the word in the line is a stand-out mispronunciation?
  Raah - Road. Raahon Mein.
  As pronounced in the song, the syllable is shortened, and the word rendered meaningless. Would you agree?
  
  
• From: Ehsaan (@ 202.68.150.4) on: Wed Mar 26 11:12:09 EST 2003
  
  Not sure u should ask Javed Saab that but if her approved it it must be right
  
  
• From: John Barry (@ 65.176.169.231) on: Wed Mar 26 11:40:16 EST 2003
  
  "Commercialised". In this forum, you'll find only people with a critical eye, for artistes to make money they have to sell to " people ". How an artiste expresses his creativity and also bas the ability to sell for lots of money determines a star composer. But, most of the time just commercial elements enough for a composer to become star. Today demographics is different. lot more people with sufficient purchasing power, audience wide, much younger to much older and not critiques but just consumers. it is not like old days, when audience was critical, today is group dynamics, music with loud drums and worlds like mustafa will be popular and an IR number like (Chittu Parukuthu by Shankar Mahadevaan and Sujatha - arecent discovery for me, i am currently on it non-stop for 3 days!!!!) with intelligent compositions with street rhythm and lots of melody even cannot be popular considering group flavor.
  
  It is good to reatin Indianness but music makers can be more smart if they can spend time learning the whold business of movie making or acquire different perspectives including understanding distinct "arranging". Even if assigned to arrangers, composers must insist on some international standards from these arrangers. Arranging is an art form in Europe and there are many of whose works I continue to enjoy - Pourcel, Kostelanetz, Mancini, Morricone, Jarre, Last, even Royal PO so many of them. That kind of system is not yet in India, as we have pan wallahs doing arranging.
  
  Today' objective of Hindi films should be impressionable international feel not the nonsense Indian dholaks and screeches and crazy mindless percussion and shrieky female singers - man, when is this going to stop? I mean, I found Anand-Milind far better than most of the others. Anu Malik gave good melodious songs but the pitches of vacal and instrumental, no class that bugger has. Jatin-Lalit i don't who they think they are - re-incarnation of SJaikishen? I am telling you, we want crisp compositions with some Indian melodic identity not those weird percussion. Can someone give a fast, innovative and song like Shakira' Whenever, Wherever or that Tango something? If at all our Indian composers wnat to compose those scary dance numbers.
  
  Ehsaan, thanks;--) But, is there some movement on part of Indian film songs society to operate on the vocal chords of the female singers? I can tolerate the arrangers somehow.
  
  

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