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ANALYSIS - REASONS FOR ILAYARAJA'S DECLINE IN TFM MARKET : THINGS BEYOND THE CONTROL

Topic started by SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-126-20.bellatlantic.net) on Sat Jan 3 00:35:56 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Suresh (@ bluebird.qut.edu.au) on: Fri Jan 22 01:57:13 EST 1999
  
  Rameshb:
  
  Plagiarism, copy, never mind????
  If u could listen to "manam virumbuthe unnai" for the 100th time & still enjoy it, God forbid IR from trying to satisy people like you :)
  I'm happy for you that you enjoy such songs, but could you please avoid exhorting us to do the same?
  
  BTW, i like "narumugaiye", though :)
  
  
• From: rs (@ sungold2.uk.ibm.com) on: Fri Jan 22 05:18:42 EST 1999
  
  Ramesh b,
  
  I too like nagurmugaiye and manam virumbuthe.
  True. Good songs. accepted. You were able to
  list only one song from Deva and AR Rahman.
  
  If i start listing the songs of IR, i dont think this thread will have space for others to post.
  
  Just listen to andhi mazhai pozhigirathu and Kanmaniye kaathal enbathu karpanaiyo.
  I have listened to this more than 5000 times.
  still afresh in my memory.
  Man, the way he has handled BGM is extremely great.
  
  
  
• From: S (@ dixon.ge.com) on: Fri Jan 22 08:49:55 EST 1999
  
  RS,
  
  You will obviously have a bigger list to post,
  because IR has been composing for 20 years, and
  ARR only for about 5/6 years.
  
  I think half the TFM fans would have been
  saying the same things about IR when he
  had just been introduced.. But still he did
  succeed ( I think that is a bit of an
  understatement, considering the fan following
  he has developed !).
  
  This is exactly what is
  going to happen in the case of ARR - 10/15 years
  from now, there will be fans ready to vouch for
  him being the greatest, and that nobody can be
  as creative as him, etc.
  
  I do not know how long DEVA or others may
  last, but ARR definitely will.
  
  
• From: RS (@ sungold2.uk.ibm.com) on: Fri Jan 22 09:54:00 EST 1999
  
  Oh, thaaralam irukkatume S, in fact enakku ARR pidikkathunnu yaar sonna. Life-la i always like youngsters coming up. Of course ARR is doing a good job tooo. Eankku ARR potta ella songs-um pidikkum . kalakkala irukku. intha kaalathu kuzhathai lernthu periyavanga varaikkkum ellarukkum pidichirukku.
  
  aana, i cant understand just because ARR has come up IR should leave TFM. Let IR be there, ARR also be there. let me enjoy both their music. Thats all. I dont have any prejudice against ARR/IR.
  
  
• From: S (@ mason.ge.com) on: Fri Jan 22 10:12:40 EST 1999
  
  There is a saying which goes somewhat like
  this -
  
  You should quit when you are at the top, and
  not when nobody wants you..
  
  IR has had his time, and at times when some
  talent has finally started showing up (aka ARR)
  he should seriously think of leaving.
  
  
  
• From: rs (@ sungold1.uk.ibm.com) on: Fri Jan 22 10:29:13 EST 1999
  
  appa romba bore adichidum S.
  
  I dont think nobody wants IR.
  For me i want both IR/ARR.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Fri Jan 22 10:42:19 EST 1999
  
  if nobody wants IR how come he scores hits with KK and KM? also, as far as his creative talents are concerned i seriously feel that his best is yet to come and that he has not reached the top yet. iam not talking about his commercial success in TFM alone. iam talking about his composing/creativity skills. just when we thought he ran out of steam he came out with guru which will remain something like an ISO standard for some years. he has to top that with another brilliant album. there is no end in sight. let him continue and end the 'golden age of mediocrity' as quickly as possible.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Fri Jan 22 10:56:00 EST 1999
  
  to Mr. S,
  
  '......You will obviously have a bigger list to post,
  because IR has been composing for 20 years, and ARR only for about 5/6 years....'
  
  if i take only the first 5/6 years of IR into consideration, even then i would come up with a much bigger list. in fact that list would be much bigger than even IR's list in the last six years.
  
  the amzing thing is IR is able to maintain his creative skills in spite of being prolific which our dear ARR is NOT. i would'nt be surprised either if ARR stays alive after 15 years. he would have added another 50-75 films to his list by then, that's all. and he would have managed to give another 15 hit songs.
  
  iam sorry that ARR fans are still talking about narumugaiye which is 2-3 years old. if asked about this they would come up with the evasive answer 'quality matters and not quantity'.
  
  well then find out how many bluemoons are going to be there in the next 15 years, 'cause u will have only so many hits from ARR.
  
  
• From: S (@ mason.ge.com) on: Fri Jan 22 10:59:43 EST 1999
  
  I did not say nobody wants IR now - just that
  he should quit before this happens.
  
  
• From: rs (@ sungold1.uk.ibm.com) on: Fri Jan 22 11:54:49 EST 1999
  
  No S. IR should not quit. As vijay says, he has to scale the peak. And he is capable of doing that.
  
  
• From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Fri Jan 22 12:04:11 EST 1999
  
  S, the reason why there are so many arguments against yours(including my opinion) is that you are looking from an industrial/commercial angle. but creativity by itself doesn't have any barriers of age, nor it can retire. IR can definitely retire from the rat race, which he HAS BEEN effective in doing so. IR is now in a stage where he must no longer be caring about the number of films he gets, the number of hits he gives, his postition in the industry etc. recent interviews with IR suggest the same. he is now in a sea of music where his past constraints and considerations are not there. he can and will continue to provide music, and will stil continue to amaze us. as for his quitting etc, who are we to say, anyhow? u r blindly assuming a lot of features. in this age, composers have a lot of leeway to compose. certain MDs in the past might have tapered off. but there is a lot of potential to, a. selectively do films, for his own satisfaction, b. do non-film albums, c. compose devotionals, d. experiment in carnatic..the list is endless. please do not restrict your purview to the industrial/commercial angle. IR has seen the peaks of commercialism in a far wider scale than we can even imagine!
  
  
• From: rs (@ sungold1.uk.ibm.com) on: Fri Jan 22 12:14:06 EST 1999
  
  soooooooooooooper BB! athaane. who are we to ask IR to quit.
  
  He is continue to amaze us. Sure will do it. and we will soon hear good music from him(both filmy/non-filmy)
  
  
• From: rs (@ sungold2.uk.ibm.com) on: Fri Jan 22 12:15:24 EST 1999
  
  sorry typo . is => will. he will continue
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ cerberus12.fon.sprintcorp.com) on: Fri Jan 22 12:35:59 EST 1999
  
  Guys, IR came into the scene when MSV was the king of TFM. Obviously, IR brought to TFM at that time something which was "percieved" to be different. It need
  not have been something actually different. However, he brought the difference with "quality". Which is why he succeeded to the level, which others could not. If you
  disect IR's song, you cannot pinpoint a whole lot of items and say that it had not been done by MSV before. Maybe one of the differences was the way IR used
  consistently the violins, guitar and base guitar combos. As I said before, one could always find examples of similar use in MSV's work too but it is just that IR was
  perceived to be different. Similarly, ARR entered the scene when IR ruled TFM. He brought certain product differences with him - better sound, better sound, better
  sound, varied use of percussion, keyboard base etc to name a few. It was not that IR had not demonstrated the use of these before. But perception is reality.
  Obviously, the Shanker Ganeshs of the world did not bring either differences or quality. There's another point too. I strongly feel that with the advent of ARR came
  the degeneration of Tamil lyrics and pronunciation. I would add to this by saying that the timing of the IR's entry (simultaneous with Kamal, Bharatiraja, Bagyaraj,
  Vairamuthu, et al) brought about vulgarity in song lyrics and sometimes tune. Pon mEni urugudhEy and orgasmic sounds by SJ would hve been unthinkable, or
  "idhazhil thodangu enakkuL irangu, sugngaL iru madangu" for that matter, a few years before their time. Change of "rule" happens because of a whole lot of
  environmental changes, not necessarily because of deficiency of old ruler or superior talents of new ruler.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Fri Jan 22 15:04:06 EST 1999
  
  RajaG, I could not agree with you more. Very valid points , maybe might wake up some of us inclined towards deification of personalities.
  
  In my opinion, IR has transcended the stage where his credibility as a composer is judged by the number of assignments or the percentage of market he has covered. I think the normal run-of the-mill movies will fail to motivate him unless and otherwise he has ulterior motives (that of indirectly promoting his son).
  
  He could probably shift his focus to private albums and consider areas hitherto unexplored, probably something he wanted to do for a long time ,but could not owing to limitations imposed upon him by the filmmakers.
  
  
  
• From: Rameshb (@ spider-wj062.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Jan 23 00:19:17 EST 1999
  
  Vidyasagar is another competitor who haunts minds with numbers like
  "Malare mounama "
  "Nee kAtru nan maram"
  "Anbe Anbe nee en piLLai"
  raga based songs with little or less western influence seem to appeal more these days. ARR and DEVA mix (any of their inspirations!) very well to create melodies . Vidyasagar does this sporadically and succeeds.
  "Indrekiklithaka-ik-nenuna"!?!?
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Sat Jan 23 19:19:51 EST 1999
  
  RS!
  
  The songs songs which you have posted as IR's which you've heard about 5000 times, were composed
  almost 20 years ago.
  
  To say the fact, I also liked Manam Virumbudhe so much when it came out first! Both the versions. It still is good, may be would have lived longer had the female version been rendered by some other singer (I am not sure which), though I should not deny Harini also hears good!
  
  A small doubt RAjAji and Sriram!
  
  Does not perception stem from reality in the first place? They may drive each other later on, ofcourse!
  
  My opinion to post here is that IR has exhausted his ability to give resounding filmi numbers. He cannot give another "AAgAya Gangai" Or
  "Germaniyin SendhEn MazhaiyE" or for that matter an other "SridEvi En VAzhvil"!
  
  From my perception, the best of an artiste comes out only during his ascent to the top and when he's there unperturbed (which will be only for some years, I mean hovering at the peak unperturbed)! Once he starts to yielding to external pressures his creativity goes down and so does his quality and subsequently his stardom.
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-90-11.sprint.ca) on: Sun Jan 24 00:49:22 EST 1999
  
  Hello
  
  Hero's of yesterday can only be hero's of yesterday. They can give hits here or there but they still remain the heros of yesterday. They deserve respect, they don't deserve worship(No one deserves worship, except God), at least not the kind I see tamil people think that a hero deserves. Come on, IR or ARR, They are both great musicians. People disliked IR for bringing down MSV's popularity. Those were the people of MSV's time. Now people dislike ARR for bringing down IR's popularity. But don't you people realise that IR had his own Kingdom in the time between. Come on, the guy didn't have anyone near his feet for twenty or some odd years. And for twenty years, people have listened to IR's songs. But even in that time, people REMEMBERED MSV. They also listened to MSV's songs. And they still do! So there is no talk about IR not being heard. ARR came along and gave something that sounded new. We liked it, so we praised it. Wasn't that what the youngsters of TN did when Annakili came out. ARR kept giving hit stuff while IR was not so stable. So ARR rose.
  If you don't give songs that don't deserve mention, then what is the point of mentioning them. So, there was a feeling that IR was fading. With ARR came a host of new talents, but they didn't stick around that long- WHY? because they didn't have the individualism that IR or ARR possessed. Many people have raved about new songs of IR that even I don't think meet up to standards at all, from him. Where is the man who gave haunting melodious song. Maybe like he says' Sometimes you get gold, at other times you get silver'. Maybe we can't expect all his songs to come out great, because he writes what comes to his head and not experiment with bits and pieces like ARR. But in any case, he has not even come close to his earlier works. But came 'Ennai taalaata varuvaala' and all other songs of 'Kaadalukku Mariyaadhai' and we all praised him. A praise that was worthy. We didn't forget to give him that. Even ARR had his unpopular time in 1996. But he came back, and if IR came back with hits such as he will also be praised.
  
  I know that a lot of people feel that ARR has been publicized more than IR and so this gives them 'aathangam'. But first of, I would just like to say that we did not have a world that was so globalized. Now you have the other side of the world in front of your TV and Computer screens. You didn't back then. But then IR was not the type to go look for publicity.
  
  To end my long speech, I just want to say:
  
  A king is only a king for his time, then a prince has to be named king. But that doesn't mean the king was never king. He will always be the KING!
  
  

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