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ARR's plagiarism--tamilians are not dumb.

Topic started by R.BALAJI (@ 129.130.140.38) on Mon Jun 8 21:27:56 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi guys,
I am going to india soon.If you want to show your disapproval against ARR's plagiarism please do reply to this new thread which I will eventually print and give it to ARR personally so that he realises that people are not dumb and listen to his fancy copying of music from abroad and boast himself as a musician.
Even his latest much talked "Vande matram" has one songs which has direct lift of a tune from Madonna's latest "FROZEN".
I don't know how he thinks that he can get away with these fancy copying.I think it is time for us to show him that we are not dumb.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-94-38.sprint.ca) on: Sun Oct 31 21:34:33 EST 1999
  
  Hey MS,
  
  Sorry if my posting was offending. It was just a joke. I didn't mean any malice or anything.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.26.161) on: Sun Oct 31 23:01:22 EST 1999
  
  oops !!aruvi, this is just another case of misunderstanding between us :-). My posting above referred to ragumanfan's attack on RB. I know you as a very seasoned DFer and I cannot even dream of you offending people in our forum. Hope this clears.
  
  Regards
  
  MS
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Mon Nov 1 13:40:53 EST 1999
  
  I have never appreciated plagiarism. Being in the software business I know how I should respect intellectual property. Intellectual property rights are the basis of high technology growth and prosperity in the western world. People should not say, "you, me and everyone". They should speak just for themselves. Beatsy, fast paced and electronically enhanced music will sell but will not command respect from everybody, especially people who appreciate fine music. There will be people supporting people of different levels of honesty and ethics. This seems to be the state of morality in the country. The indifference toward plagiarism is only a tip of the ice-berg. It is indicative of the loose sense of morals which is the current bane of the tamil society.
  Disgusted at plagiarism in TFM !!
  
  Regards,
  - kiru
  
  
• From: Mani Muthappan (@ farm1-cache2.gw.uiuc.edu) on: Mon Nov 1 14:49:40 EST 1999
  
  ARR does plagarize but I feel that Deva is the worst Indian musician. The man has no creative talents. He takes devotional songs such as "Shastiya Nokka Charavana Bhavana" and makes a garbage song like "Pathinettu Vaiyathu Illa Mottu Manathu" in the movie Suriyan that starred Sharath Kumar and Roja. He did the same thing with a song in the movie "Periya Manushan." Also, the beginning part of the song in Avai Shanmugi is the same as Mortal Kombat. It is clearly obvious that Deva is the extreme copier whereas Rahman is a mild copier. It is hard to find where Rahman copies his songs though. Recently, his songs have been becoming more and more repetitive. The middle part of the song "Vanna Poongavai" from Jodi is similar to the middle part of "Chotta Chotta" from Taj Mahal. Rahman's music, like Ilayaraja's music in the 80's, is getting very very repetitve. When he entered the field, everyone song in a movie was fabulous but now I can only pick 2 or 3 at the max that I like. I think the reason for this is because he has to keep recycling the tunes he uses or he can find many to borrow. Also, it seems the MD has been taking more film offers. I feel that the quality and originality of Rahman's music is slowly deteriorating and I give him another 4-5 years to last at the max before a new MD revolutionizes the industry.
  
  
• From: bb (@ franck.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Mon Nov 1 15:00:14 EST 1999
  
  kiru, u seem to be tackling more than a thing at the same time:-) what does "beasty, fast paced electronically enhanced music" have to do with plagiarism? both are tangential at the least and if u combine them together, it might be too generalizing:)
  
  
• From: (^!^) (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Mon Nov 1 17:33:25 EST 1999
  
  Mani Muththappan,
  
  Your quote: "Rahman's music, like Ilayaraja's music in the 80's, is getting very very repetitve." - You sure know how to stimulate a discussion:-)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Mon Nov 1 18:33:28 EST 1999
  
  bb, never mind, well, I removed the 'Sangaman' CD from my CD changer already :-)
  
  
• From: Ragapriyan (@ libproxy.ntu.edu.sg) on: Tue Nov 2 11:00:17 EST 1999
  
  Kiru,Mani muthappan, and R Balaji,
  
  1.ARR's Vandemataram was released before madonna's Frozen.
  2.ARR is the best musician we have.
  
  And about some small part in some song sounding similar to another part in someother song,....its very natural to have the same raga chaayam if one is basing it on that raaga.....The very fact that all of u guys are listening to the songs so very carefully shows how complex ARR's music structure is.It takes more than a hearing to fully appreciate the nuances in the song....very much unlike Ilayaraja's songs which are so very "Plain" and lack any scope for improvization....i hope u get what i mean.
  
  And if u give ARR an unbiased hearing, and if u know some music, then u will realize his genuis.
  
  Again, the point about becoming repetitive....why don't some of u listen to songs that other music directors compose?....as if they are doing a beautiful job?....And why don't u try composing one line which does not resemble in the least any part of any song that u have listened to...(who knows, u might end up dicovering a new raga !)...
  
  and then u will know how difficult it is to compose new songs!
  
  Hail ARR....!
  May He and His music Live Long !
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Tue Nov 2 11:42:16 EST 1999
  
  mani muthhapan,,
  
  Theres a difference between plagirarim and recycling.. recyling one's own tunes in different ways is being done by both IR and ARR, esp by the latter. you can find his "nila kaaigirathu" tune in "suthi suthi vandeega" and in kaadalar dinam "dandia aatam aada" songs etc... Recycling might lead to songs sounding repetitive.
  
  When it comes to plagirarism, deva takes the cake, icing and the cake-container box!!
  
  
  
  
  
• From: WhoElse (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Tue Nov 2 11:52:43 EST 1999
  
  Guys,
  The bgm score of sagamam is realy worth a notice,
  Most of the theme score is set to Mand and Misara mand, Arr has done a great deal of thinking on RR side,
  "....very much unlike Ilayaraja's songs which are so very "Plain" and lack any scope for improvization"
  Good Deal, that is called as algorithmic music, RP -- You are perfectly right, there is no scope for any improvement. If Raja's score had some scope to improvement, he would have not reached the rock bottom of the TFM.
  He is not trying to improve, he should pick the harmonium and start composing, he should stop the direct scrore writing fundas, direct score writing is only for instrumental music , (thats why he shined and still shines in RR parts).
  
  Finally,People --- claming ARR is dumb is no more a chat topic, he is doing great and he is on the top for the last decade not only TFM , whole of Asia!....Please do not waste time on Arr bashes anymore. BB I think this topic should be moved to out from here.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Tue Nov 2 13:40:13 EST 1999
  
  Ragapriyan and WhoElse,
  I understand your enthusiasm for ARR's music. But I am afraid you guys are grossly mistaken when you say 'IRs songs are very plain'. I guess you guys might have Carnatic music knowledge. I suggest that you guys read up on Western Classical Music and fundamentals and origins of rock music and the latest 'pop' style.
  
  You will be able to see music in a different light. And I am trying to be patient not to be annoyed by statements like, "you try to compose and see how difficult it is".
  
  
• From: st (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Tue Nov 2 14:19:26 EST 1999
  
  KIRU:
  
  "I guess you guys might have Carnatic music knowledge. I suggest that you guys read up on Western Classical Music and fundamentals and origins of rock music and the latest 'pop' style. "
  How does this make me a IR fan or ARR Fan or Kaithan fan!....FOR THAT MATTER
  
  Can you teach me some basics so that I will start loving IRs score!
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Nov 2 14:43:06 EST 1999
  
  kiru,
  
  here is a famous quotation for you: "don't waste your time" :-))
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ mail.startec.net) on: Tue Nov 2 14:51:02 EST 1999
  
  Improvisation ? or Modification ? Like ARR takes "Nila Kaaygirathu" and modifies it into "Thayya Thayya", "Roja Roja", "Dandia Aatam", "Suththi Suththi" and God knows what else !!! Well Srikanth (aka Seattle Tamizhan/ST/Who Else), if you think IR's songs are "plain", there is very little one can say to convince you. I wonder why I even bother responding ! If you so dislike IR's music, I don't see anyone forcing you to listen to it. I hate ARR's music and so don't listen to it with any significant level of interest. Why can't you do the same for IR's music ? Just ignore it if you find it algorithmic. Don't keep making meaningless, ridiculous statements like, "IR's music is plain".
  
  
• From: Tiffin master (@ proxy2.ericy.com) on: Tue Nov 2 15:01:54 EST 1999
  
  Plain Dosai sapitaa vayiru kada kadatthu pogathu
  
  Aanna Mysore rava Onion Masala dosa sapitta, immediate effect......
  
  Kadavula, yenthan Mr.Panchu ippadi oru plain dosaiyai itroduce panninar !
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Nov 2 15:12:39 EST 1999
  
  st,
  
  this is a serious request. can i get your email address. is it still the same old jsri one? thanks. :-))
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Tue Nov 2 16:47:28 EST 1999
  
  aL:Mail me at d_srikanth@Yahoo.com (Email la theetadheega!)
  
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Tue Nov 2 17:27:11 EST 1999
  
  rAjan,
  I didn't know it was our 'old friend' I thought it was some 'young friend' and offered some suggestion :)
  Still I wanted to express my appreciation for 'our friends' favorite composer for his environmental consciousness..I mean recycling :-)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Tue Nov 2 17:30:12 EST 1999
  
  Srinath,
  I thought 'rojA, rojA' was a bit stolen from 'sippi irukkudu, muthu irukkudhu' song. The light music guy who played at my brothers marriage agreed with me too.
  
  
• From: AT (@ max2-11-125.njit.edu) on: Tue Nov 2 18:59:15 EST 1999
  
  Its really funny to see on TFMP, software guys(mostly) commenting on Music geniuses.Do anybody of these people know the value and pain of creating something new, each time. That our MD's are battling with quantity and inspite trying to maintain some sense of quality is greatly appreciable.
  If the MD's are taking in more quantity, it is a shame on us all(tamilians or TFM critics) that we dont have sufficient talent to cater to the quantity.It also shows the quality and quantity of talent available.
  
  
• From: (^!^) (@ daecfp02.sprint.com) on: Wed Nov 3 09:49:05 EST 1999
  
  AT,
  
  the so called software guys (mostly) may not be competent to comment on musical geniuses. However, they are perfectly educated/trained to comment on cut and paste artists like Deva:-)
  
  

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