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Creativity of Ilaiyaraja

Topic started by Bhaskar (@ ww-tk02.proxy.aol.com) on Sat Jan 3 00:48:33 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: rameshb (@ spider-wo064.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Apr 17 09:20:21 EDT 1999
  
  adutha vaarisu also has that upbeat 'aasai nooru vagai vAzhvil nooru suvai vaa', the only category in which MV expresses well. His rustic base voice helps in shouting and screaming and sometimes sounds overwhelming with SPB as in 'pattukkOttai ammALu pArthuputtA nammALu'.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.152) on: Sun Apr 18 00:32:39 EDT 1999
  
  rameshb!
  I beg to differ your opinion on MV: Please listen to the flg songs:
  1. Oru thanga radhaththil - Dharma Yutham
  2. Aahaya gangai - same film
  3. Indha minminikku - Sigappu rojakkal
  4. katti vachchukko enthan anbu manase (IR music, don't remember the film)
  5. Aaththu mettula - Gramaththu Athyayam
  
  The reason could be IR's abilities to get the melodious part out of him, or whatever it is, there are DEFINITELY good numbers from MV in other categories! (Though you can't compare him with KJY, JC, SPB or IR for obvious reasons)
  
  
• From: Praveen (@ kalamazoo.isr.umd.edu) on: Sun Apr 18 01:23:42 EDT 1999
  
  Rameshb,
  Some more numbers of MV
  Songs from Muthal MAriyadhai
  Poove Ilaya Poove
  Alli thantha bhoomi Annai allava ( NAndu ) etc..
  Rex's Page will provide more such Gems
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Sun Apr 18 07:21:07 EDT 1999
  
  guys u 've left "kOdai kAla kAtrE" (panneer pushpangaL)
  "adi Adu poongodiyE" (kALi)
  
  
• From: raja (@ spider-wm072.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Apr 18 19:47:26 EDT 1999
  
  Arul:
  
  I was referring to the song Ninaithal Innikum from Kalyanaraman. I remember a thread on songs set to Misra Chapu thalam.
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ spider-wj021.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Apr 18 22:37:06 EDT 1999
  
  eden, praveen
  MV has some limitation in bringing out the emotions required in some melodious duets and pathos. He struggles at higher notes to perform the mandatory microtones required to express efficiently. I have listened to numbers from dharma yuddham and that is where i found him rendering with flat expression. He sounds monotonous with 'oor koodi yeh yeh yeh..., uRavAda im hm...' in AgAya gangai. Also his expressions are not as ornamental as it should be in 'en theivam thantha .. en theivam thantha, en thangai' in the song 'oru thanga rathaththil'. In melodies and pathOs one has to adore a tune by microtonal expressions. SJ is overwhelming with her expressions in 'AgAya gangai' especially as she sings 'thaLirAna en maeni thAngAthu', she just vents romantic emotions so freely. In many melodies especially the duets, MV's flat expressions go unnoticed as the tune's scale, BGM come for the rescue. Another example in which his 'calculated' expressions fall short of the necessary level of expectation is 'kOvil maNi Osai' in which SJ is so sweet with her redering for 'pAvam unthan kachchErikku poNNu nAna, pAdum varai pAdu thALam pOdu athai neeyE kELu'. Whereas MV renders the lines 'nAn piRan naLil ithu nalla nALE' absolutely flat with no variation. But again the awesome interludes with violins and guitar makes this song beauty of melody. There is another example in which his flat , unvarying sangathis become more striking in the song 'poovE iLaya poovE'. Whenever he repeats a line in pallavi or charanam, eg as in 'iLan chirippu rusiyAnathu', he is supposed to vary the melOdy by tweaking it with little microtonal presentation. He sounds monotonous whenever he repeats 'enakku thAnE' in the same flat note.
  
  
• From: RaGa (@ 202.185.129.202) on: Sun Apr 18 22:49:28 EDT 1999
  
  Listen to MV in kaado pottakkadu from karuthamma and then come to conclusions
  
  
• From: PS (@ hal9000.netz.sbs.de) on: Sun Apr 18 23:43:52 EDT 1999
  
  If I am not mistaken kAdhal panpAdu song's tune from EVK (song 161 from Rex's site)has been reused by IR in another song.
  kiru: Regarding EVK's "kaadhal paN paadu" song, some of the guitar portions reminded me "poo vaadaik kaatru - na na na na".. Any similarties?
  
  
• From: Raja Fan (@ spider-we033.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Apr 19 00:02:09 EDT 1999
  
  Have you forgotten MV's famous rendition in Ullasa paraivagal. Engengum Kandenama for Surlirajan?
  
  
• From: Praveen (@ bay8-37.dial.umd.edu) on: Tue Apr 20 00:29:57 EDT 1999
  
  Rameshb,
  IMO MV's voice suited these songs well and the song situation and the actors involved in it also demanded such a voice. Kudos to IR for his selection of singers. for example, in Muthal Mariyadhai, for sivaji, SPB's voice would have rather sounded young!! and TMS couldn't and shouldn't have been used. The character required a voice which needed gambeeram as well as softness for which I think MV's voice suited particularly well.
  Also I dont get what you mean by MV's voice is monotonous in "oor koodi yeh...."
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.150) on: Tue Apr 20 01:48:46 EDT 1999
  
  Back to IR's creativity:
  
  At last I got the Guru album! A real treat for a serious film music listener! My comments:
  
  General : Much improved version of Kaalapani which is similar in some ways (serious type, Kerala manam etc.)
  
  1. Guru charanam - great beats, lovely tune and 10 times better than Vandhe madharam which is a somewhat similar number.
  
  2. Aruna kirana - I can't express in words & I don't want to simply repeat the word great so many times! What a tune, orchestration, singing. Kudos to IR & KJY! No comparable no. in KP
  
  3. Deva sangeetham - great tune and singing. I used to get irritated with MGS' singing in the `Kottum kuzhal vizhi' of KP. That song too had lovely music and interludes of symphony standard. That has been undone now, with the great KJY!!. My personal preference will be to have KSC also, but then man proposes....
  
  4. Thaththaram - good no. with lovely chorus and accompaniment
  
  5. Minnaram manaththu - the only number which I would rate below the equivalent in KP (marikkoottinullil, by KSC which was a roaring hit through out Kerala). IR could have used KSC for this. The only betterment is the avoidance of`adivasi song' interlude.
  
  I can't believe how the same person (IR) can be so comfortable with the Man vaasanai's of both TN and Kerala where the cultures are so different (IMO)!! Brilliance and Touche!
  
  Overall, I would cherish this album close to me! Will start looking for the CD now!
  
  
  
• From: SRK (@ ntws311.cs.wisc.edu) on: Tue Apr 20 10:23:04 EDT 1999
  
  Eden: The icing on the cake was that although IR used hard core western instruments, the mood he created in the songs was distinctly Indian - a remarkable achievement.
  
  
• From: Rex (@ grad-4.ise.ufl.edu) on: Tue Apr 20 23:39:09 EDT 1999
  
  SRK:
  
  Did he not use the Hungarian troups with Hungarian Music Instruments for GURU?? Also did he not use the famous age-old `yAAZh'instrument in GURU?
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.144) on: Wed Apr 21 10:09:43 EDT 1999
  
  guru would serve as a standard to raja himself. i guess atleast for the next 5 years or so, every great album of raja (if he scores music till then)would be compared to guru inevitably. i dont know whether raja would be able to surpass his performance in guru, let's wait and see.
  
  
• From: Madhan. (@ 202.41.117.61) on: Wed Apr 21 12:18:51 EDT 1999
  
  Recently when I was listening to GURU in my headphones, I was taken aback while listening to the solo song on Side A , sung by Sujata - the whole song has a BEAUTIFUL "izhaiyodum" instrument (is it bass guitar ?), playing the notes of the tune in subtly different fashion, adding to the ornamental beauty of the song in a startling fashion !! This shows the focus IR is giving for recording quality as well !
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Wed Apr 21 13:58:16 EDT 1999
  
  the 'yAzh' used in Guru is not our 'yAzh' it is the western 'yAzh' - the harp. Rex, if you have the GURU cassette pull out the liner. It has the name of the Hungarian musicians with the name of the instrument they play from the Budapest Philharmonic Orchestra. Hungary is the cheapest place to get good western classical music or musicians it seems !!
  
  Madhan, I think you are referring to the harp.
  And also, IR's recording focus is different from ARR. IR likes to record instruments with the natural 'ambience'. ARR's style is the pop music style, the focus is to make it sound good on car stereos and cheap music systems.
  Even old IR music is done this way. They call it 'acoustical recording'. If you have a good music system (separates - cd player->preamp->amp->speakers) you will see that IRs recording has depth, a 'live' sound to it. ARRs is flat and artifical depth - done using software. But surely ARRs close miked recordings are very goodn (whenever he uses real instruments).
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Wed Apr 21 17:33:36 EDT 1999
  
  Kiru,
  I totally agree with your views on IRs muscial recording depth (accoustical recording). But the point I differ with you is that ARR's recording quality sounds good in Good Music System as well. I don't think ARR's recording quality is done to sound good only in cheap systems. We should really commend the technology/sound engineering that he adopts in his recording. Thats probably the foremost reason his songs are liked by many people. I agree there is an artificial depth in his recording quality but ARR has definitely elevated recording quality to international standards.
  
  Could you explain as to what is ARRs close miked recording is all about. I would like to know.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Thu Apr 22 20:13:20 EDT 1999
  
  Dorai,
  Surely ARRs recording quality is good. I was only commenting on the style. Still some of IRs recording, sound really good on good music systems. The sound of real instruments is a treat to hear. I can tell an electronic drum from a real drum very easily. And electronic drums annoy the heck out of me (I hate Kadhalukku Mariyadhaif for this) But most IR's recordings are bad - there is no resonance or the harmonics decay really fast.
  
  There are two classical approaches to recording live. One is using just two microphones (Blumlein). The other is to mike each and every instrument separately and mix them up with software introduced depth.
  In real life people use a combination of these two . Ilayaraja uses less number of mikes than ARR (probably because of the size of his orchestra). So with ARRs music you hear instruments sharp. But with IRs it will sound receded. The technique IR is using requires good quality microphones (there are microphones which cost $10000) and good quality instruments to playback. But ARRs will work for most music system.
  
  For eg. Guru's recording is good but does not sound like ARRs because of this very reason.
  I have Iruvar/MinsaraKanavu considered very good recording by many, but I still like to listen to karagAttakkAran with those traditional drums.
  
  (to get a good example of Blumlein arrangement for recording get the 'A meeting by the River' CD by V M Bhatt and Ry Cooder. The label is Waterlily Acoustics. It is available on Amazon.com)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Thu Apr 22 20:16:55 EDT 1999
  
  BTW, if ARR elevated recording to international quality at all, it is the pop recording quality, which is very different from classical/jazz recordings which is done like the way I have mentioned in prev post.
  
  

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