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Tamil Film Music Cateogories

Topic started by Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on Tue Mar 10 17:54:59 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I want all of us to participate in a healthy discussion to come up with reasonable definition of different kinds of music cateogories - thereby shedding more light to unexplored areas of Tamil Film Music as it is becoming more and more "international" :-) by the day. This process is simply to increase the knowledge base.

Cateogories that come to my mind are Carnatic, Western Classical, Jazz, Fusion, Flamenco, New age etc. -- :-) so many terms and so little definition.

As for Carnatic and Western Classical, their foundations lie basically in melody and harmony based approaches to music.

What are the foundations of other kinds of music ?
Are they based on the use of certain kind of instruments ?

Since TFM-DF consists of varied set of people with inclinations towards different musical tastes as well I am hoping a lot of them to contribute for this article

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: PR (@ ppp-1-45.smf.visi.net) on: Mon Apr 6 13:11:16 EDT 1998
  
  Kanchana Madam,
  That was a superb presentation of jazz and classical.
  If you don't mind I have a personal question for you which came to mind as I read through your excellent articles. I am from Madras and I am visiting my sister in the States at present, and will be here for another week. I have met a marketing executive with the same name as you in Madras. She was on a business trip to India from the States. The first time I met her she was discussing music with our R. sir and the second time she was analysing a song with the other R. sir. Are you the very same person? If you are, you would recall the cola incident and how R. sir really smiling at the way you handled it.
  May I have the privilege of contacting you directly madam? Thank you.
  
  
• From: bs (@ www1.access.bt.com) on: Mon Apr 6 14:47:22 EDT 1998
  
  Bhaskar:
  Shhhh:-))..Intha threadil vilayattu venam please..
  Athukku than niraiya thread irukkave irukke:-))..
  
  Prof:-)
  Sportiva continue panreenga..:-)) Please dont stop for any interruptions please..:-))
  
  BS
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ freeway.proxy.lucent.com) on: Mon Apr 6 17:24:20 EDT 1998
  
  BS:
  
  Indha class-la vilayattu vaendamnnu neenga sonna
  piragu vaendam!, adhuvum illama enakku ippo indha
  class-la romba interest vandhuduchu.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tk05.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Apr 6 17:54:36 EDT 1998
  
  Bhaskar:
  I'm very glad to see your enthusiasm. As you start reading Copeland's book PG recommended, please feel free to talk to me about any questions you may have, separately.
  
  Dr. BS:
  Thank you, but I think the semester is winding down now. Most probably this discussion got to be deeper than Mux bargained for, because we have many experts here who are beyond the primer level.
  
  PR:
  Yes, that does sound like me. If you are who I think you are, you have easy access to my phone number/e-mail through our mutual business associates in Madras. Look forward to talking to you soon.
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Tue Apr 7 00:18:03 EDT 1998
  
  Kanchana:
  
  Thanks for the clarifications. I will listen
  to symphony 5 and come with more questions. I
  think i have the CD. Let me dig out the old books.
  
  milla NanRi
  mannAru
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Tue Apr 7 00:19:26 EDT 1998
  
  AchachO!
  
  mikka NanRi- endRu padikkavum.
  
  
  
• From: pal (@ x101-145-87.unreg.umn.edu) on: Tue Apr 7 09:52:25 EDT 1998
  
  mannAru,
  you had lost it last time you came from US to India.... you only brought the CD box! :-)
  
  
  
• From: pal (@ x101-145-87.unreg.umn.edu) on: Tue Apr 7 09:56:07 EDT 1998
  
  athellaam sari...
  
  this thread is s'posed to be about the film music categories... so coming back to the TFM stuff...
  
  did you guys noted the 'pathetic' reproduction ( the other word is obvious ) of the Beethoven's 5th symphony in one of the song in annamalai by Deva? I think it is the title song and it is the second ( peaceful ) theme.
  
  
• From: pal (@ x101-145-87.unreg.umn.edu) on: Tue Apr 7 09:57:10 EDT 1998
  
  Can some one tell me what is the 'piece' that has been copied at the start of the song 'thanga magan' in baachaaa.......
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Tue Apr 7 21:55:29 EDT 1998
  
  ada pAvi, nee dhAn adha thirudinAyA? nAnum
  yosichu pArthEn, engE pOchunnu.
  sari ozhinju pO! nAn vEra vAngikirEn.
  
  mannAru
  
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Tue Apr 7 22:09:49 EDT 1998
  
  Kanchana & Pal:
  
  More Questions here.
  
  I beleive there is another types of classification of WC compositions, like symphony, opera, concerto, and sonata. What is the major difference between these types. Pal, i think u told me
  once; i forgot.
  
  In TFM, have anybody tried all of these types
  in songs. I believe IR have tried the symphony kind of music. What is the type, of the interlude
  which comes in the second interlude, of "Ottagathai kattikko" song from gentle man.
  What is the type of prelude music from "ThendRal
  vandhu ennai thodum"?
  
  Is there any limit for number of counterpoints?
  What is the maximum number so far composers used?
  
  Is there any difference in the number of
  counterpoints between 3 eras of WC.(barogue, romantic and ??)
  
  mannAru
  
  
• From: Mux (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Wed Apr 8 14:02:43 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  
  Kanchana: Yeah!! (Imagine Kramer here) This discussion got deeper than I had expected. But that does not mean the semester has to wind up. You see, I am asking some questions too, finally :-)
  
  I bought Karl Bohm's Mozart symphonies and heard #40 along with you explanation. I could very easily identify the pieces you had mentioned. This is a very different way of listening. Thanks for the info.
  
  BTW, I may be asking a very basic question now. Can you explain the keys (minot major stuff) to me ?. When a theme is expanded the same theme is played in different keys, right. So, the description of something being in G Minor implies the key for original theme, right ?
  
  I also bought Antonin Dvorak's (crazy pronunciation), symphony no.9 (New world) which has that piece which is similar to chittukuruvi song. I felt there was a piece that comes in part 1 of Mozart symphony #40 which was similar to piece mentioned above.
  
  Long way to go. It would certainly take some time for me start listening to WC and then to comment on TFM songs. Either this can go permanent thread OR someone can come forth with TFM songs for discussion.
  
  Mux
  
  Mux
  
  
  
• From: Mux (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Wed Apr 8 14:09:21 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  
  Bhaskar:
  Ennanga ithu ungalukku interest vara nerathule semester mudiyarathunnu sollitaanga. Intha thadavai CUP vangareenga pola irukku
  
  Mux
  
  
• From: pal (@ c45208.ece.umn.edu) on: Wed Apr 8 14:33:58 EDT 1998
  
  mannaru,
  nalla yosichu paaru! Last time when you were coming from US ( to India ) you promised this CD ( 5th sym ) to me. But you ended up giving only the dappa to me! :-) How can I steal this? ( I might have stolen some other CDs, of course! ) THe good thing in stealing the CDs is that I dont have to pay you for those CDs anymore! :-)
  
  
• From: pal (@ c45208.ece.umn.edu) on: Wed Apr 8 14:43:40 EDT 1998
  
  mannaru,
  Instances of these WC forms in TFM are not 'pure' in the sense that they come for a short time and get transformed into something else. After all TFM is a light music form. Nevertheless, the starting of the 'malaiyoram' in Alexamnder is good example of a starting of Ravel's work. He introduced lot of orchestral techniques which revolutionalized the WC in the 20th century.
  
  The best example for the counter points in TFM is 'edho mogam'. THe best example for modulation is 'vanam keezhE vanthal enna' in thoongathe thambi thoongathe(?!). One of the best example of thematic development in TFM is the 'potRi paadadi' in Devar magan. THis actually starts from the folk song and develops to the song sung by SPB finally when Shivaji dies.
  
  
• From: pal (@ c45208.ece.umn.edu) on: Wed Apr 8 14:47:51 EDT 1998
  
  mux,
  why dont you buy some TFM CDs also along with these WC CDs. :-) Just kidding! Remember Sundhar's accusation that if one start listening to classical they will stop listening to film songs ( you were one of the examples he took! :-) )?
  
  BTW, How is your jazz endeavour coming along?
  
  
• From: Mux (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Thu Apr 9 12:20:19 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  
  Pal: To find a common ground for the musical tastes of Sundher and myself was a difficult thing to do, those days. :-)
  
  I listened to Benny Goodman and Miles Davis CDs. I did not like Miles Davis stuff from the samples I heard and like the "swing" music of Benny Goodman. But I think it would take much longer to get a wholesome picture of Jazz. Unfortunately last time I went to the shop I did not take this printout.
  
  BTW, isnt it a fact that Karnatic music (OR Hindusthani) is very intuitive can be enjoyed with completeness by a single individual compared to the other types of music ?
  
  
• From: pal (@ c45208.ece.umn.edu) on: Thu Apr 9 16:28:29 EDT 1998
  
  Hi mux,
  
  about "...isnt it a fact that Karnatic music (OR Hindusthani) is very intuitive can be enjoyed with completeness by a single individual compared to the other types of music ?"
  
  theriyala... may be you are born and brought up with carnatic/hindustani classical. For example, take me. It was not intuitive for me to understand indian classical! The same thing might be true for these westeners about WC or pop. Especially, here ( in the US ) I find lots of people liking blues and country a lot! For these people, indian classical is toooooo much. I experimented on some of them! :-) Some like the funky film music by ARR, athithyan etc. mainly because it resembles their type os music. These people dont even have any inclination for WC, in fact! :-)
  
  In general, it turns out more people like light sounds. So, if you take vangelis, yanni in instruments people like them all over the world! So are lionel ritchie, elvis presley etc... elton john and george micheal etc... So, being light seems to be the important factor. What do you think?
  
  

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