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musical shifts of Mani, KB and Bharathiraja!

Topic started by Karthik (@ 12.10.193.123) on Tue Aug 22 07:04:35 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Folks...

Maniratnam, K Balachander and Bharathiraja, all three biggie directors in tamil actually had a very fruitful association with IR. Except KB the other 2 actually started with IR. KB of course is an old hand and had a great innings with MSV.

Now Mani has worked only with 2 composers, IR and ARR. And contrary to media speculation he might not work with newcomer Dina, as he's rumored to work only for Mani's home production directed by his assistant azhagam perumal. So Mani goes on.

KB, has for now stopped movies and more into Tele serials. But he shifted to Maragadhamani (Keeravani in telugu and MM Kreem in hindi) with Azhagan and subsequently Jaadhi malli. Both of them had some really good music. Deva came in for one movie, Kalki and the music, for the first time in a KB movie was substandard (IMHO). Then KB went to ARR and came out with Duet, again with great music. KB stopped there!

Bharathiraja was the strange one. He opted for Ravi in Vedham Pudhithu, when even today lot of people think it was by Raja. The kannukkul nooru nilavu was a classic IR-like composition. I still am doubtful about the composer of VP, can anybody clarify once and for all?

Anyway, BR then shifted to IR for some movies, came to ARR for kizhakku cheemayile, karuthamma, anthimantharai, taj mahal. He had also tried vidyasagar for parambarai, which did have some good numbers. And of course Deva for tamizh selvan and now kadal pookkal. BTW, tamizh selvan had some good numbers by Deva.

Now the questions:

Why did these 3 directors leave Raja in the first place? What were their last movies with Raja? Mani's was Thalapathy, but the other 2??

All three worked with ARR, Mani (6 movies), KB (1) and BR (3). MR still does. KB is out of movies. So why is BR so unsure with his composers?

Would Mani and BR be back with IR to create magic again? (assuming that KB is into TV, fulltime)

Why did KB stop work with Maragadhamani? He was damn good after all in Azhagan and Jadhi Malli!! Similarly why did BR forget Vidyasagar who gave him more than decent music for Parambarai? (adi athi, thamara poovukkum)...does it have anything to do with all these 3 movies doing very average business?

Karthik

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: hari (@ 204.30.230.119) on: Fri Aug 25 17:18:27 EDT 2000
  
  
  Dear DFers,
  
  This is info I have got from a friend who learns guitar from IR's long-time associate and guitarist Sada. (Sada told him) Basically it is an absolute fact that IR was an egoist (btw, I am an absolute HCIRF) and that during late eighties he never treated the directors with much respect.
  
  I suspect that Kamal was among the very few people he cud properly get along with... i guess he felt the others - Mani, KB etc were not at his level, so to speak... All IMHO.
  
  So later, when ppl used to approach him and ask him to compose like ARR (can u believe anybody cud ask that to someone like HIM!!!) he apparently used to get totally pained and irritated and wud ask them to get lost. Sada apparently told my friend (amidst laughter) abt this particular incident when the director of VIP (i dunno his name) came to IR with such a request... and IR asked him to get lost... and our man promptly went to the adjacent complex to none else than Carbon Copier Deva!!! Apparently, such instances were many...
  
  Anyways.. the last year and a half - Sethu, Time, Hey Ram, KN, KKP, KUT, Bharathy.. have all been tooo much... I am excited abt the future!
  
  hari
  
  
• From: SM (@ 205.218.138.90) on: Fri Aug 25 19:05:58 EDT 2000
  
  ask him to compose like ARR
  
  Boy!!!! Those people should adore IR for he just asked them to get lost. Any other person, in IR's place, would have man-handled them. Even, I'm getting angry just reading this, wouldn't IR? There is nothing wrong in IR being arrogant with such people. They deserve it. However, I agree that there is a perception that IR is, in general, a egoist and that (also) led to problems between him and Vairamuthu, Rajni, KB and BR, to name a few. You can blame any side, you never know. MR seems to have not much problems with him, though.
  
  Sethu, Time, Hey Ram, KN, KKP, KUT, Bharathy
  
  Add KC and ILayavan to your list.
  
  
  
• From: Sridhar. (@ 171.70.67.143) on: Fri Aug 25 19:18:07 EDT 2000
  
  STS,
  I agree with most of your points.
  But with respect your 4th point, i think, every one of us has that arrogance at one point or the other. when a common man like us can have that, why not the greats like IR.
  Though, partly it's because of his self-confidence, mostly, i think, it's because of the people who blindly projected him and used to praise like anything.
  when everyone praises you to the extreme level, you tend to think that i'm the greatest person on the earth.
  and suddenly, when situation changes, his supporters took an U turn and gosh!, now no one to even speak to.
  and, it's his talent and self-confidence,which have brought him bak into focus.
  yes, i do agree that he never answers in a straight forward way. but, i don't remember even a single occasion wherein he's said something like,"i'm the best MD. my music is the most superior..." something like that. but,he has always maintained consistently that music is nothing but a mere manipulation of the existing ragas and hence MDs just bring an illusion to the listeners. that shows that he's an egoist as a normal human being and he's not as a MD.
  also, most of our film personalities engage themselves in some sort of politics to gain something. whereas in IR's case, i don't think, he's ever engaged in any sort of politics. the only instance which i could site is he tried defaming VR at couple of instances. but, because of his straightforwardness, he could not do it successfully and then on, he repeated.
  i think, his attitude is, either u fully be close with some one if u like him or stay away completely if don't like. it's just his own character and we don't hav a right to criticize on this.
  he has always praised people who have very good talents. (there is plenty of evidences for this.).
  
  more later,
  Sridhar.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.54.69.149) on: Sat Aug 26 00:34:04 EDT 2000
  
  Hari
  You got your facts wrong. The director of the movie VIP was Sabapathy, and the MD wasn't Deva but Ranjit Barot. I don't think IR was ever approached for VIP; on the contrary, ARR was, but since he was too busy, and since Ranjit, ARR and Prabhu Deva were on very good terms, Ranjit was referred. And I think he did a damn good job in line with the youthfulness of the movie.. I honestly can't conceive IR having scored a song to fit a sequence such as "Eechamkaattu"... Maybe Yuvan or Karthik could..
  
  I also doubt if anyone would have used the precise words "Rahman maathiri" in requesting IR for a score. They might have thrown in words like "youthful" "fresh" "modern" or the like, from which IR may have recoiled.. Again, even if this VIP example is taken, I fail to see why he couldn't have put YSR or KR on the job. Not many would've disputed his choice; when KR scored for Vijaykanth and Rajkiran, he surely would've enjoyed a Prabhu Deva-Abbas starrer better...
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 12.10.193.123) on: Sat Aug 26 03:30:41 EDT 2000
  
  I dont necessaily agree that arrogance should be a trait of a genius. He could also be down-to-earth or just plain normal. History is witness to a lot of people who let their brilliance go to their heads and lost their hard earned glory.
  
  Just because I'm a HCIRF, my conscience doesnt allow me to glorify the man inspite of his arrogance. Even a middling composer like Vidyasagar talks politely about other music directors and notes his contemporaries with respect. This humble behaviour is one of the key to Rahman's success. I dont see why I shouldnt respect this character of his.
  
  Lets agree that when it comes to better human qualities, he may be better than IR. And its probable that its IR's arrogance, which forced his directors to shift interest, which forced his fans to leave him for others and so on. IR has absolutely nothing to lose being humble, in retrospect. He would have been much more popular person, globally, if only he had been more down-to-earth.
  
  Probably.
  
  Karthik
  
  
• From: amalraj (@ 203.199.220.48) on: Sun Aug 27 03:16:24 EDT 2000
  
  karthik,
  
  we all have forgotten one thing about IR music is his thirst in an DD interview he has said this thirst cant be quenched by any sea (entha kadalalayum intha isai thahatha theerka mudiyathu) ,in that case when people treat him like ordinary MD he has the right to pounce on them he knows he is not ordinary musician, he has been prooving that for him music is important than anything else , in fact i love his arrogance because it helped him to keep away from wrong ones
  i dont care how great talented the dir are because he(IR) is more precious to me than anyone else.
  
  
• From: hari (@ 207.221.238.212) on: Sun Aug 27 09:39:39 EDT 2000
  
  suresh,
  
  I am sorry abt one funda - the movie was apparently Vaali and not VIP... just got mixed up with the names... And abt ur doubting whether anybody wud ask IR to compose like ARR etc.... well what do I say? This is a factual piece of info I got from a trustworthy source, so there. Anyways, when ppl invest so much money in a movie, I dont find it unimaginable that they ask the MD whatever....
  
  the tone of ur posting suggests that Im deliberately stating lies.... actually they are truths.. i have no motivation to generally post lies!!
  
  hari
  
  
• From: VS (@ 136.182.2.222) on: Mon Aug 28 10:01:19 EDT 2000
  
  i guess he felt the others - Mani, KB etc were
  not at his level, so to speak...
  
  Well, it appears then that Kasthuriraja, Kalanjiyam, Keyaar, etc match up to his level ! IR finds creative satisfaction in working with their masterpieces, one would assume...
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Mon Aug 28 13:11:21 EDT 2000
  
  I feel most of the cases its the arrogance. Just that they dont understand him. They expect a stero typical kodambakkam film industry man out of him. Who will keep prasing everyone for no reason.
  
  Like you should see the heroines, they will call rajni sir kamal sir, chinni jayanth sir. Nothing wrong, but is it from thier heart?. Any damn guy/gal who gives a interview follows the same template, praise rajni, follow it by kamal then by sarath who ever you worked with. Nothing comes from heart.
  
  This what raja was bored with. He is just not another one. He cant go and talk like deva and say 'ha ha ho ho' about rajni giving him a ring or talk about some junk director, who made a mediocre movie saying it inspired him to get inspired by a english song?.
  
  His RESPECT to DIRECTORS and ACTORS shows up in the music can anyone deny it?. May be he is not that expressive.
  
  I remember Mahendran's reaction towards Udhirippookkal's BGM. He gave the movie to IR, he watched.. no words from him. Mahendran was surprised he thinks he made a masterpeice which he did. But his new MD is not saying anything.
  The result came out in BGM, much more than mere words. These are the words of mahendran himself.
  Look for the intense climax in the movie, bet you get goose bumps. Its all because of BGM.
  
  Panju once said IR never had friends. Nor from Industry nor from Press. Press was just waiting to vent thier anger that he doesnt give a damn to them. Then again who is this Press? Are they dared to ask deva why he copies so much or say a director, why did they allow thier MD to copy?. The film industry will ban that reporter.
  
  Now again, you can ask if mahendran praises IR. Why he never does it back to him. I dont know why. He is just no that kind of person. Shoud we care Newton was arrogant after all the contribution he did?.
  
  IR is most used and abused artist.
  When you expect a dog out of a lion, it will sure appear arrogant.
  
  
• From: ramesh (@ 210.214.104.5) on: Mon Aug 28 13:12:55 EDT 2000
  
  My observations :
  
  Excluding MR ...Neither BR or KB's post Ilayaraaja movies have had the same quality music as their movies with IR .Would anybody compare Mudhal mariyadhai , 16 vayadhnilae to tajmahal ..and his other so eminently forgettable movies .. Similarly SIndhu Bhairavi and Punnagai Mannan stand out .
  
  KB has successfully worked with MSV and later IR .Both produced quality music but later it was downhill all the way .
  
  MR on the other hand is an enigma . Thalapathi had excellent music and later he shifted to ARR ( but hey he introduced him ) and to this date ARR's scores for MR have been a class apart from all his other scores .
  
  Some of the statements about IR's arrogance seem superflous . He has proven himself a musical genius time and again. Hence I feel directors shouldn't have problems working with him.
  Just contemplate the music in Tamil movies today with those in the 80s . When IR has reduced his no. of movies sufficiently ..most scores just are just cacophony !
  
  As an IR fan and as a connosiur of good music all I can say is that I hope to see a lot of IR and BR together for some good movies and music . MR & ARR as long as they maintain the quality of their work go right ahead .
  
  Meanwhile all those talented moviemakers destroying their movies with scores from devaa , raajkumar and other assorted copycats ...contemplate ..the maestro to improve the pathetic quality of tamil movie music today
  
  

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