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7 points if IR seeks a comeback

Topic started by Sriram (@ 136.2.1.153) on Fri Jul 2 11:19:18 EDT 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

1. Stop writing songs (even first few lines..)
2. Use good lyricists like Vairamuthu
3. Work with leading directors
4. Stop singing himself
5. Stop using Bhavadharini
6. Stop listening to "Jalra" parties - Eg: RajKiran, Ramarajan
7. Shed some ego

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: e (@ 172.128.181.142) on: Sun Jul 4 17:36:36 EDT 2004
  
  Bharadhvaj BGM in Autograph? I watched the movie on dvd which credited sabesh-murali for BGM...
  
  
• From: NagaS (@ 61.11.66.46) on: Mon Jul 5 10:35:02 EDT 2004
  
  sabesh murali did the BGM for Autograph !
  
  and to call that equal to IR's bgm is a big joke - IMO sabesh murali didn't even concentrate on picking the right instruments - their BGM padaththodu konjamum ottavillai - esp., the village scenes, where S-M had all western tunes and ARRish high pitch kaththals !
  
  NagaS
  
  
• From: maanick (@ 193.132.98.250) on: Mon Jul 5 12:56:53 EDT 2004
  
  IMHO We need not discuss about IRs greatness. Guys, plzz dont try to argue and prove points to ppl who choose IR for only their argument sake.
  
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Mon Jul 5 14:47:32 EDT 2004
  
  Maanick, Kum
  That is exactly what I am telling abt!! We just side track and step aside on each and every direction to become a ARR-IR feud.. when they annot be compred..
  
  
• From: Comments (@ 68.88.20.171) on: Tue Jul 6 00:45:26 EDT 2004
  
  IR's period is over as far as "commercial hits" are concerned. He should have done the above 10 years ago. I am sure some die-hard IR fans still find his music to be great. Fine, but I am talking about the general public. There was a time when I would want to listen to newly released IR songs again and again. I simply don't feel that way any more. Virumandi for all hype wasn't that good (IMO). I think this happens to all MDs. ARR seems to be going this way in Tamil (maybe he's doing well in Hindi).
  
  Autograph: The songs and BGM added a lot of value to the movie. So what if Sabesh-Murali did the BGM? Maybe they copy a lot and use parts of the songs itself. But the BGM suited the movie very well. I didn't do a detailed analysis of what instrument was used for what scene. All that matters to me is how well it comes across.
  
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Tue Jul 6 01:23:53 EDT 2004
  
  Comments, Talk sense man!. What were Pithamagan, Ramana, Azhagi etc.. Where they box office duds!. Uh!
  
  For heavens sake dont compare the BGM of Autograph. Thats a gross insult to the original composers in hollywood. The bgm in the movie were direct lifts from some of the songs, and to top it all, you say it fitted the movie. May , it has! but for people whoever had heard the original ones, its hard to digest people here calling that they liked Sabesh-Murali's BGM. Way to go! Comments
  
  
• From: suresh.c (@ 202.158.125.5) on: Tue Jul 6 02:30:51 EDT 2004
  
  sabesh and murali appeared in suntv for Av ramana's saptha swarangal and the funny side of the story was that they couldnt even relate "kalyani" as a raga and they mentioned as kalyani style!!! may be they have a saloon background??
  They are not good even in copying and they should not be part of any music. waste of our time listening to such crap music drs/ atists. Insult to tf industry
  
  
• From: sureshc (@ 202.158.125.3) on: Tue Jul 6 02:36:57 EDT 2004
  
  I am a fan of Ir and recently was in his house on his bday( 2nd june).
  Ir is in a class of his own, a true composer and not a good sound Engineer !! He believes in Music rather than in sound quality.
  All he needs is a good subject, decent lyrics and he will give memorable tunes like before. May he lacks the inspiration now. Let us his hope that he comes out with great tunes again.
  
  
• From: Sriram (@ 136.1.1.154) on: Tue Jul 6 09:06:04 EDT 2004
  
  Hey Guys - STOP. STOP.
  
  I did not initiate this thread to discuss BGM. I am also IR fan - I enjoy his music 1976-1988... But I believe his stuff is not as good as it used to be from early 1990s even before ARR appeared.... you guys remember TFM tried MaragathaMani, SAR, others before ARR made the break through?)
  
  There is a "Cult" following of IR - they always distract the discussion.
  
  Robin/MusicIsLife or any other IR fan from the "cult" club - Do you have valid arguments against the 7 points listed? No BGM crap please.
  
  
  
• From: ramki (@ 61.247.244.98) on: Tue Jul 6 10:26:44 EDT 2004
  
  isaigyani never needs comeback.
  comeback is for flops like rahman.
  isaigyani is always for tamil music and tamil people.
  
  
• From: incensed (@ 136.1.1.33) on: Tue Jul 6 11:35:03 EDT 2004
  
  "Autograph: The songs and BGM added a lot of value to the movie. So what if Sabesh-Murali did the BGM? Maybe they copy a lot and use parts of the songs itself. But the BGM suited the movie very well. I didn't do a detailed analysis of what instrument was used for what scene. All that matters to me is how well it comes across."
  
  ...Comments, a couple of comments on your posting above:
  
  1. GuessMe posted that Bharadwaj overtook IR on BGM with autograph, that was missing the fact S-M did BGM for that film. So where's the question of Bharadhwaj doing great in BGM?
  
  2. 'All that matters to me is how well it comes across'...that's such a bad approach when the field of arts and creativity is being discussed, totally discounting the ctrl-c /ctrl-v. Compare this with begetting a child and you'll understand what an immoral approach is that...
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 198.16.9.11) on: Tue Jul 6 13:17:21 EDT 2004
  
  Autograph - AutoCRAP
  Autograph - Uttercrap
  (of course in a lighter sense)
  
  That's how I perceived the movie. Autograph BGM what BGM? (in a ligther sense) Autograph stinks and its a poor imitation of Agzhagi.
  
  
• From: SK (@ 199.90.34.67) on: Tue Jul 6 13:59:52 EDT 2004
  
  'Dr.Ramadass' pola famous aayidanumnu mudivu pannitteenga pola.... mr.dorai!
  If you can not be famous, just go ahead and trash 'the' famous one... you will be famous!
  vaazhththukkal!!
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 198.16.9.11) on: Tue Jul 6 14:12:34 EDT 2004
  
  Mr SK,
  Autograph is no famous anyway. I don't want to be famous by trashing a famous movie. I did not trash Azhagi (I guess you must have got the message by now). Cheer up!!!
  
  
• From: Robin (@ 212.138.47.20) on: Tue Jul 6 14:31:17 EDT 2004
  
  Sriram,
  
  You asked about the answers for the 7 questioned putforth by you.
  1. Stop writing songs - I think IR is much better than many lyricists in the field now. If you see IRs lyrics in Nadodi Thendral and Solla marantha kathai and in Virumaandi, you cannot write like this.
  
  2. Use good lyricists like Vairamuthu . - I too agree with Vairamuthu is a very good lyricists. But the people work is working with IR Pulamaipitthan, Palani Bharathi and Arivumathi, etc are not bad lyricists. IR gave number of hits without Vairamuthu. So, I feel this point is also an invalid one.
  
  3. Work with leading directors - At present, who ever works with IR is a leading directors. The leading directors like Balachandar, Bharathiraja, Mani ratnam are now history in Tamil cine field. THey are not able to give a hit now. At the present the leading directors like Bala, AR Murugadass, Thangarbachchan are proud to work with IR. Still, eventhough outdated, BaluMahendra is still working with IR. These are facts. So your third point is also invalid.
  
  4.Stop singing himself - IRs voice is Unquiue in the Industry. You cannot count the hits sung in his voice. Now he is aged and he knew that. Even the greats like SPB ans SJ are in rest due to the age factor. That's why he is not using his voice often, in his recent movies. Better example is Kasi. Whereever it requires he is singing. Better example is Un Kuththama from Azhagi. No voice can match to that situation. Eventhough I partly agree with your point, in needy situations he has to sing.
  
  5. Stop using Bhavadharini - Bhavatharini is a national award winner for Singing. I too agree that her voice is not so good, at that same time it is not so bad. She needs some more knowledge. If you see IRs recent albums, she is not featuring. May be who knows, she may be a best singer after some time.
  
  6. Stop listening to "Jalra" parties - Eg: RajKiran, Ramarajan - You should not forget that whatever IR composes for thse two people are super duper hits. Still, if IR and Rajkiran combinations comes out, you can see best songs. Not only for Rajkiran and Ramarajan, many people benifited from IRs music. That doesn't mean that they are putting Jalra to IR. For every man, there are some well wishers and supporters. Between IR and these guys, there is definitely a bond there, which gives as good music.
  
  7. Shed some ego - For genious people, the ego is born with them. That too, for the persons, who suffered a lot and came to a big level, the ego will be more. This is a human nature. Why he has to shed the ego for some people who doesn't want to work him. Those who had fight with IR, you cannot find them in the industry now. But still IR exist. Still the big directors of this generation like Bala are working with him any problem. Variamuthu is also of the same nature. He was contradictions with first IR and now with ARR. After ARR and VR ego clash, both were fielded out. But after the ego clash with VR, IR is still existing. Mani Ratnam, Bharathi Raja and Balachandar had the same fate. They lost their touch. Because, if you take a classic scene from either Mani or Bharathi raja, you can also see the IR's majical touch to these scenes. I can go on with my point. But, finally, I can say, for those people who are not willing to work with IR, IR need not shed his ago for them.
  
  I think, I have given my point of justifications, your 7 points.
  
  
• From: Sriram (@ 136.1.1.154) on: Tue Jul 6 16:42:26 EDT 2004
  
  
  Robin,
  
  There we go... Thanks for a long reply...some healthy discussion...
  
  1.You say, "IR is better than many lyricists in the field now" and "Pulamaipitthan, Palani
  Bharathi and Arivumathi, etc are not bad lyricists" - so shall we say IR is better than
  Pulamaipitthan, Palani Bharathi and Arivumathi?
  
  Come on.... we have better ones around (Vairamuthu, Thamarai….). Remember "Minnale" and "Alai Payudhey" - Does any of IRs songs have lyrics comparable in the last 10 years?
  
  Take Pithamahan... I am very sure "Ilang Kathu Veesudhe..." IR wrote first few lines. (How to identify IRs lyrics? Generally there wont be any connection between one line and next... Lot of filler words like Maane, Thene, and Pattu Padi can be found)
  
  2. For the above reasons… use good lyricists.
  
  3. Yes I accpet Bharathiraja, and Balachander are out. I cannot accept that about Mani Ratnam. (Alai Paayudhey and Kannathil Muthamittal are very good movies, he should probably forget Hindi audience).
  
  But please recall very IR stopped working with Bharathiraja and Balachander, it is IR who deserted them not they. (He preferred working for RajKiran and Ramarajan... because they put his picture…only his picture…. on poster). Do not forget Bagyaraj... IR never gave good music to Bagyaraj (except Thooral Ninnu Pochu)
  
  I am still not sure why ManiRatam deserted IR after Dhalapathi…
  
  I am unable to accept Bala, AR Murugadass, Thangarbachchan as big directors. (they have just 1 or 2 hits…However that’s the scenario in TF industry… No string of hits for anybody).
  
  Does IR work with K.S.Ravi Kumar?
  
  4. Yes I accept - he has unique voice ... can sing once in a while ... But I can give you few movies, in which he sang all good songs... (Tamil Geethanjali, Maniye Mani Kuyile from Naadi Thendarl deseve better voices).
  
  5. God only knows how Bhavadharini got National Award......(You also agree that her voice is not so good). See the fate of Bharathiraja trying to promote his son...
  
  6. Here you are arguing for me - I do not want to see IR favour these kinds of people (bloodsuckers…) they are trying to take him away from other talented directors, actors….
  
  7. Everybody has Ego - There are lot of people with Big Success and small ego - Eg:
  Shivaji
  
  But I do not expect him to be like Shivaji. But learn to accpet Criticism and be team player. (Same applies to the "die-hard" IR fans… why are they so rude and insult other MDs like ARR… He is not that Bad after all….)
  
  IR made fun of Vairamuthu... But when Vairamuthu retaliated he could not tolerate it (I hope you know what I am referring to...). Everybody has Ego… learn to respect it.
  
  
  
• From: Comments (@ 68.88.20.171) on: Wed Jul 7 01:08:37 EDT 2004
  
  Osho and Incensed,
  
  I am talking about commercial audio hits. Azhagi had one great song. Do you guys really believe the public receives IR's albums just like how they did in the 80's and early 90's? No way.
  
  I wasn't comparing Autograph/Bharadwaj/SM with IR or his work. Personally I liked Autograph's music. That's all. That doesn't mean that I am saying that they are better than IR. I didn't know SM had done the BGM until recently.
  
  Coming back to the original discussion:
  
  There was a time I used to think that lyrics were just fillers for IR's music and didn't care about them at all. But now, when I listen to the maane, thene (as pointed out by Sriram) kind of lyrics I find them quite annoying.
  
  In the 80's and early 90's there was no realistic alternative to IR. IR's attitude was/is - "my way or highway", "take it or leave it". People put up with it because they had no other go. When ARR came, people realized there was an alternative and they jumped ship. Any talented movie director would prefer a MD who listens to his ideas and is willing to work with him. Think of it as customer service. IR, IMO, didn't do a good job of treating his customers well.
  
  

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