Topic started by kk (@ 210.88.56.56) on Mon Jun 4 23:38:19 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Why did MR left IR.
Reason bhhind it is what is expected.
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5)
on: Wed Jun 6 10:29:28 EDT 2001
My 2 cents,
I knew of a version (during 92-93). GV was involved in a docudrama film of alchoholism which jaya govt produced (she appears in it too). In which GV wanted IR to work as he did for all his movies that time and was even announced and later IR backed out.
May not be 100% true, there was this movie and GV-IR fued that much Iam sure.
- From: sane (@ 62.253.128.4)
on: Wed Jun 6 14:16:43 EDT 2001
I am very surprised by what i read in DF: IR vs ARR. I have rarely come across an occasion where IR talks about his colleagues in film industry. Being his ardent supporters, how can you gossip like this? Wouldn't it be more of a tribute if you just discussed your experiences when listening to his music?
- From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12)
on: Wed Jun 6 15:51:39 EDT 2001
sane
there are like more than 25 threads in this DF ... how can we possibly dedicate everything to just discssing listening experience.
The background works and the side shows are all part of the game.. even in an exiting cricket match... a on field tussle between opposing players is also much interesting... same way...
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Wed Jun 6 17:51:23 EDT 2001
Sane is Sane in the truest sense.
Multitude of threads discussing whats not useful is by virtue useless. We don't go to cricket matches to see tussles. We don't invest our time and money to watch one cuss another. We dont spend time discussing politics because we think it is the most important thing in life.
We devote time to do certain things which have an effect on our lives. We listen/discuss music for the simple pleasure it gives (that is the effect by the way). If all one is interested in is to talk about the private lives of people producing music, it doesn't show an intertest in music. The effect of doing that is nothing but a cheap pleasure - to satisfy our egos, nothing more. You spend all your energies in reasoning something that is so entirely useless can be avoided.
Is GV, Manirathnam or IR so important as to make you leave school work and spend useless time here? Is this what you call a healthy "analytical" mind? How good is it to the world? Have you seen big bridges, dams, tunnels built for the purpose of serving humanity? Are they a result of discussing someones private life?
Please make your life more useful on this planet.
Jai Ram.
- From: rr (@ 203.124.2.40)
on: Thu Jun 7 08:59:02 EDT 2001
DDD not expected hit songs from KR, that is the only reasons MR go again to ARR. I think it would be very good if he continue with earlier composer Dina.
- From: fedup (@ 12.5.10.153)
on: Thu Jun 7 09:52:09 EDT 2001
because he found suhasini...
so next question is why he left arr,
...what a stupid topic, guys please dont waste time.
IR as musician did his job perfectly for Mani. it is not IR's problem or fault if mani choose someone else. totally non-musical it is not worth discussing here.
- From: bharath (@ 172.130.101.112)
on: Thu Jun 7 10:05:57 EDT 2001
swamiji and fed-up,
there atleast a dozen postings here to prove that u r wrong.
see the pontification can be done by all and sundry! it like saying, "anything and evry small thing that one does in daily life must have a solid value and meaning"
which is stupid , u and I do so many things thats useless. You cannot dictate terms that we should discuss whats sensible to YOU.
you might be an old man who cannot connect with a new generation!
all the 25 threads dont discuss abt personalities... only some like these
similarly we may go to a cricket match to watch mainly cricket but on field tussles do make iot more spicy and interesting..
thats the glitter of showbiz...
plz dont try and think the average man is more stupid than u. and that he cannot look down on life from the "superior" philosophical pedastal that u think u are standing on.
I know u r a composer... in the same way plz understand that we also doing this fr entertaintment and not wasting our "education" tiome or whatevere that means and loosing our lives here.
We are blessed with more intelligence to manage our time than what u condescendinly declared that we have.
- From: yaaro (@ 172.162.207.9)
on: Thu Jun 7 10:17:18 EDT 2001
swamiji , i dont think is 50.i think he mentioned this age sarcastically toone of the dfers.
am i correct swamiji?
- From: comment aka fedup (@ 12.5.10.153)
on: Thu Jun 7 10:18:07 EDT 2001
Bharath, did Mani leave IR because he got poor quality music...just answer me this,
ego problem, head weight ,......agreed,
how does this affect ir's wide knowlege of music?
secondly no one is perfect, the best cricketer i know so far is vivan richards, but he is supposed to be the most arrogant. Still he was loyal to his gamemanship. Same with IR, he was loyal to the work he did, let it be mani or rajkiran or any dam small directors we have.
secondly, like you the right invite people to discuss something, simply I have the right to tell the world that you are wasting your time dont post here...there are 10,000 threads which has already discussed IR and his ego etc, Yes! he is tell me who is not.
My claim this man is dam loyal to his work, if if you ready to work with him, he works in his best ability.period. Seriosuly IR has a status in TFM which he earned by his music, Let us learn to respect it.
- From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153)
on: Thu Jun 7 10:25:13 EDT 2001
Do you know how big a crack pot is mani's brother.
You made your point long time ago, now try to pinpoint his flaws in music, week after week, please dont try to degrade him by any other
means. I think it is not right on your part.
Btw: I am not ir fanatic, dont brand right away.
- From: bharath (@ 192.25.158.12)
on: Thu Jun 7 12:43:53 EDT 2001
comment,
as soon as i saw ur posting... i searched all my posting archives... and not at 1 point have I ever said that IR's music knowledge or his dedication towards towards giving good music is below par.
In my critisism of IR I have only critisised his interpersonal skills and never his music.
comment I agree with all ur points except 1. which is the point implicitly made in ur assumption that I think music wise IR is a quack.
I never said so nor do i believe that. I read the interiew with IR in "thirai ambalam" sounds exactly like the person I thought he was. Very Pois dedicated but a possible suspect with money oriented marketing show-biz.
That although is not a fault(by no means it is) It just makes him incompatible with some other people...
To finally answer your question comment??
I NEVER EVER mentioned Mani left IR (or vice versa) because of quality of music reaons..
if u see my first posting in this DF i wud have said that Mani and IR split only bcoz of circumstances and chance of mani being in KB's movie. I listed a list of allegation but picked only one that I believed in.
I think Both ARR and IR were sucessful with Mani. I believe Even Deva or Vidhyasagar or Adithyan wud be successful with Mani.
My whole point is always never anti-IR but the fact that Movie director has a big role to play in getting good music out of the MD
and that any MD no matter who he is (IR or ARR) cannot be reaching the people with just good music in bad films, I believe that negativity of bad movies with contaminate them into giving bad music.
this, thus is my humble point.
- From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153)
on: Thu Jun 7 13:25:27 EDT 2001
bharath we are now in sync, i belive we should discuss good/bad qualities about music rather than finding fault, this applies to arr also, most find unwanted fault with arr, which I am dead against.,people still dont want to belive that arr gave a turn the indian music industry
also yes i agree director plays a vital role in making a song successful.
there had been days where directors were trashed.
also ,
now answer this 100000 $$$$ question,
When a song becomes a hit for a mediocre director, who gets the credit ?
Like ir and msv have worked with many "kathukutti's" and have produced hits...
?
I know that you are not anti-ir and hope you know i am not pro-ir guy. Let us get some logics here. try to answer my above question.
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Thu Jun 7 13:28:01 EDT 2001
Bharath - I think you are an idiot. Whatever I told wasn't philosophical but something very practical. If you spend 1/2 hr to go to toilet, it isnt a waste of time, because u have to. But if u spend 1/2 hr to talk about GV or IR going to toilet, it is a waste of time because you are talking about someone else's s***. You understand my point? You don't need high intelligence to manage time, but simple common sense.
Yaaro I am not 50, but relatively 50.
- From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153)
on: Thu Jun 7 13:35:58 EDT 2001
swamji just cut the crap. better stand in front of a mirror and take a look at yourself from top to botton before you call next person an "idiot".
imho, some of the bharaths statments makes sense, how ever not all of them,
- From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153)
on: Thu Jun 7 13:40:07 EDT 2001
You don't need high intelligence to maintain basic
Decorum here. just simple common sense,
I request you to please maintain some politeness or etiquette or courteousness here.
- From: bharath (@ 192.25.158.12)
on: Thu Jun 7 13:54:45 EDT 2001
swamiji,
when u meet some stranger in a train or airplane and talk with him abt weather, sports games etc...
u will realize ur logical mistake in ur posting..
i can call u names.. but I am half ur age and that wud not be nice... I tasted victory the moment u called me an idiot... otherwise u wud have contested logically ... like a man.
thanx "comment".
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Thu Jun 7 14:18:04 EDT 2001
Bhatath, Congratulations on your new victory. Comment, I understand your need for etiquette and like to be maintained. Those are applicable when the thread makes some sense.
To me bhatath personifies a person sitting at a chai shop 24 hours a day and discuss politics. To me that is the definition of an idiot. Of course it is not my duty to tell someone what is important for him/her.
Ok I am out. Bye...
- From: bharath (@ 192.25.158.12)
on: Thu Jun 7 14:27:24 EDT 2001
//"When a song becomes a hit for a mediocre director, who gets the credit ?
Like ir and msv have worked with many "kathukutti's" and have produced hits... "//
well! we all tend to hash mental status/image of whatever we see.
When I see music in a movie. I instantly imagine. How the director must have communicated the situation to The MD.
I'll give u an example...
"aiyooo da..alankatti" in tenali. I can imagine the director telling ARR to give him a song that is sung in the night, in a hill station cottage, its raining and the song is sung as a feel good song with the entire family, its a kind of song which gives u a mood where u feel a li'l bit cold and warm urself with a blanket , there is some emotion that the brain profuses into the cells which is very well brought out in the song... I still think is an average song but its acheived the situational objective.
I always think a experienced MD will wait for the director to explain the song well! and make a judgement (his personal one) abt the quality of the director and the directors knowledge and then compose accordingly.. when the 2 make more movies together the MD wud know that the director makes good movies and also that he/she can feel the song as deep as the MD felt and can picturize it to the best effect.(c'mon how high u think abt the song's value wud be shown in the effort u put into it)... based on that the MD will know if the guy is really doing some quality work or is simply using the MD for advertisement...
I saw "pagal nilavu" probably Manirathnam's first movie as director. 2 songs were good and 1 of them was really excellent("poo malayee")
The opinion that I had from that movie instantly was..in such a slightly above average movie, how come 2 songs made the grade and others were just fillers.. It is my opinion that Mani, since it was his first movie as a director. Could not force or hang arnd improving the song qualiy and asking for more...
but after a couple of movies (idhaya kovil was too song-based in my opinion) Mani sorted out the time parameters and spaced himself well enugh to sit near IR and not let go until what he wanted was acheived (although that kind of IR's time is rally big money, he had GV to take care of that).
Manirathnam realized that Mani-IR was like a Employer- Employee or Customer - service_provider relationship, with that attitude he got value for his time, effort and money.
I believe, Fazil, shankar, Bharathiraja, Mani, KB, R.V udayakumar(once upon a time) had/have the
1) reputation(based on past good movies)
2) I-am-not-in-awe-of-u attitude
3) persistence
4) boldness to say no-i-am-not-satisfied
5) money ( is also a factor when u are new)
case 2:
Then there are the other breed of directors who are total psycophants, they are the anti-thesis of the 5 points above.. they just are too happy to get the IR brand that , all hopes of good music rests with IR motivating himself to maintain his standard. such directors think IR/ARR is god and over patronize ("pugah pattu") IR . ARR in my opinion has clearly avoided that and also stopped his name from appearing in Lyrics/movie dialoges
In such scenarious both IR/ARR cannot generate the same excellence as in the former case. SO they basically have no way to make decisions on how to expend their energy/effort... in this category they will also be dealin with ppl who want them to just make some average music so that they can circulate their average movie and make some money.. quickly in B and C centres
So naturally IR/ARR will develop "favorites people" to whom they can give charity(as music)... so IR has ramarajan, Rajkiran(sometimes only though...) and ARR has Rajeev Menon(he hasnt given big hits and only posseses a veneer of sophistication plus he blatantly copies scenes and movies )
To put it bluntly if IR sees some hardworking guy from down south, who wants a break in "kollywood" IR wud see a li'l bit of himself in that guy and basically do charity. ARR in my opinion will get carried away by "sophisticated" attitude.. discos, graphics, hi-tech things impress him
more over these MD's (IR and ARR) will have their own experimental/personal fav. tunes which may find a way into pedestrian movies...
bcoz they are fundametally music lovers and so somtimes they get into the mood to give good music
and some average director wud get lucky...
examples
IR's charity to ppl frm south of madras
1) ramarajan and rajkiran movies
IR's good music based only on reputation
1)Meera
ARR as a sucker for "sophisticated" hitech talk
1) en swasa katre
2) rajeev menon movies
although i have to say that all the directors (except maybe KB)that i have listed in the first category have been carried away sometimes and their over dependence on music has given them flops...
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