Pudhumaiyaana Vaarthaigal/Prayogangal

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Pudhumaiyaana Vaarthaigal/Prayogangal Pudhumaiyaana Vaarthaigal/Prayogangal

Topic started by pg (@ igw2.merck.com) on Fri Sep 5 10:20:22 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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From: Bharat (@ isdbsd1-inet.ci.mil.wi.us) on: Tue Jun 23 17:22:28 EDT 1998

Udhaya:

"Jwaala" in Sanskrit means flame/fire, and this usage may be derived from that as a vadakkathiya prayogam.
From: Bharat (@ isdbsd1-inet.ci.mil.wi.us) on: Tue Jun 23 18:01:28 EDT 1998

Kanchana:

Regarding the thogai mayil analogy to women, ever heard the simile "as proud as a...". Traditionally, women are supposed to care more about their looks (thogai?), hence the vanity aspect may also be at play here.

Once again, no opinions here, just a statement of facts :--).
From: Kanchana (@ spider-ta043.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jun 23 18:14:04 EDT 1998

Udhaya & Bhaskar:
neelORpanam refers to a blue-colored water flower.

Bharat is right about the Sanskrit roots of jwaalai. When used in conjunction with thee as in theeyin jwaalaigaL, it refers to theep pizhambugaL or tongues of flames, I think.
From: RV (@ avntfw.avanticorp.com) on: Tue Jun 23 18:37:19 EDT 1998

I guess it must be neelorpalam, Neelorpalam is a flower - obviously blue, kind of long ...
From: Bhaskar (@ spider-ta021.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jun 23 20:04:33 EDT 1998

Friends,

I have seen this usage in many Bharadhi and
other lyrics, What exactly this Chuttum sudar
Vizhi or Chuttum Vizhi Sudar mean ?

Chuttum vizhi chudar paarthu manam kettadhai sollattumaa ?

Chuttum sudar vizhi paarvaiyilaE thoondil
idum devi

Chuttum sudar vizhi kaNNamma
From: RV (@ avntfw.avanticorp.com) on: Tue Jun 23 21:45:58 EDT 1998

Suttum Vizhich Chudar - Glowing eyes that point

Suttuvadhu is pointing.

Suttik kattuvadhu is a common term.
From: Bhaskar (@ spider-wa032.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jun 23 23:09:57 EDT 1998

RV:

Thanks for the meanings!

Chudar endraal Glowing endru arthamaa ?
From: Bharat (@ isdbsd1-inet.ci.mil.wi.us) on: Wed Jun 24 11:25:33 EDT 1998

In Guna, a character in a mental asylum proclaims "Vaanil Sudar Varumo...". What does Sudar mean in this context? I think SV Subbiah says this in a film.
From: Kanchana (@ 206.246.233.2) on: Wed Jun 24 12:03:30 EDT 1998

Bharat:
You are referring to the song from the movie "Adhi parasakthi" solladi abhirAmi, vAnil sudar varumO. That is sung by abhirami pattar's character who would tell the king that that amAvAsai night is powrNami absent-mindedly since his thoughts are focused only on the goddess. When challenged by the king, he prays to the goddess for the full moon, the goddess throws her ear-ring across the sky, and, lo and behold, it is indeed powrNami. So in that particular song chudar refers to muzhu nilA. saravam shakthi mayam, in the context of the story, of course. :-)
From: Bharat (@ isdbsd1-inet.ci.mil.wi.us) on: Wed Jun 24 15:55:15 EDT 1998

OK, here goes another one. What does this mean (from the film "Rajakumaaran":

Sithagathi Pookkale Suttri Vara Paarkudhey

What is a "sithagathi poo"? And when does a poo suttri vandhufy?
From: Bhaskar (@ freeway.proxy.lucent.com) on: Wed Jun 24 16:34:08 EDT 1998

Bharat:

I am not sure how Sithagathi Poo looks like,
but suttri vara paarkudhae means, sorrounded
by those flowers endru artham!

Sithagathi Poo irukkum poonthOppil endru artham!
From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu Jun 25 15:28:59 EDT 1998

sutrivara paakuthae--means "looking to come around". As I was thinking about this I uncovered a wrinkle in the song's logic. If you take the first line as the singer addressing the flowers in the garden--"Sithagathi pookkalae"
then the following four lines:

sutrivara paarkuthae
athimara thoapilae
othigaiyai kaetkudhae
athai magalae athai magalae

could all be the guy singing about his lover to the sithagathi flowers in the garden. But there is a jump in who is being addressed when the next two lines go:
athai magalae athai magalae
sothhu sogam yaavum neethanae

What do you guys think of this jump in logic? Am I reading it wrong?
From: Ramki (@ dante.cs.wmich.edu) on: Thu Jun 25 18:26:37 EDT 1998

Udhaya udhaya please dont look for logic or meaning in new songs. They are just varthai jaalangal.
Jnanigalil tunekku aerppa paamarargal
podum varthai kadharalgal.verenne solradhu??

Pazhani bharathi has written some funny lines in
'kaadhalae nimmadhi'song

kaadhalukkum karpu undu sol sol
karpu mattum kaadhal illai sol sol

Edhavadhu puriyudha??:))

kaadhalukkum aanmai undu sol sol???:))
anmaikkum thaimai undu sol sol(the only sensible line in the whole song)

indha madhiri pattellaaam ketta 'back to the future'madhiri poidlamnnu thonudhu
From: Kanchana (@ spider-td014.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Jun 25 19:57:36 EDT 1998

Udhaya & Ramki:
I may be wrong, but the way I've been comprehending siththagaththi pookkaLE is not as addressing the pookkaL (whatever they may be!), but referring to themselves as those pookkaL; the "LE" is more confirmatory (pookkaLthAn). So, the first four lines refer to hero & heroine/their state metaphorically, and the next two lines shift to direct speech. IMHO, R.V.Udhayakumar has overall done a fairly decent job in terms of lyrics in Rajakumaran's chinna chinna solleduththu, ennavendRu solvadhamma, siththagaththi pookkaLE.

Except for the one redeeming feature of using thamizh words, there doesn't seem to be much originality of thought or lyricism in pazhanibharadhi's verses to date,IMHO, so I'll refrain from commenting on his verses quoted above; his real fans may be able to do more justice to his words than I.
From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu Jun 25 21:11:34 EDT 1998

That's interesting, Kanchana, I couldn't hear the "PookkaLthAn" behind the "Pookkalae" intonation by the singers. Pretty tricky. RVU comes up with unique syntax sometimes. Glad to hear the logic is intact for I'm an ardent fan of RVU's lyrics.
From: Kanchana (@ spider-td084.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Jun 26 00:51:04 EDT 1998

Udhaya:
The "E" sound could just stand in for rhyming too. Reconsider that kavidhai with the logic I'd given above:
siththagaththip pookaL (reNdu)
suththi varap pArkkudhu
aththi marath thOppil (vandhu)
oththigaiyaik kEtkudhu
aththai maganE aththai maganE
soththu sogam yAvum neethAnE

To Topic:
sila vaira varigaL.............

thuLLich chellum Odai vidukadhai pOdum
mella varum thendRal vidai sollip pOgum
pArkkum yAvumE paLLikkoodamA

bhoomi engum kaviyarangam
sAral pAdum jalatharangam

paRavaigaL edhaRkum passport illai
kaNdangaLaith thAndi paRandhu vidu

kodi mElE malar oonjal AdAdhO
andha malar mElE vaNdu rAgam pAdAdhO
kAdengum sangeedha mAnAdu koodiyadhO

oru pArvaiyil vidhai vandhadhu
maRu pArvaiyil mazhai vandhadhu
thuLir vittadhu nenjam

karuvil dheepam EtRi
nAnE kOyilAgip pOnEn
thAimai koNdadhAlE

nangai undhan koondhalukku
natchaththirap poo paRiththEn
nangai vandhu sEravillai
natchaththiram vAdudhadi
From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jun 26 18:00:37 EDT 1998

enjoyed the vaira varigaL you brought to mind, Kanchana. Here's a pudhukavithai by Vaali strewn into a song by MSV from "Agnisaatchi"
uppuk kadal
kaRpuk kedal
thodu vAnam thEndum vElaiyil
mai itta kaNNAl nEyum
kai oppam ittAi kaNNAE

paper arangam muzhuthum
undhan pENA munaiyin nadanam
From: Ramki (@ pm062-21.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Sat Jun 27 11:49:33 EDT 1998

In 'nenjam marappadhillai'song kannadasan writes
'oru pada maadhu uruguginraalae'

what he means by oru pada maadhu??
From: Kanchana (@ spider-tb051.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jun 28 12:25:16 EDT 1998

I think the line is oru mada mAdhu, as in achcham, madam, nANam, payirppu, Ramki. madam must derive from madamai and most probably stands for innocence.

Udhaya:
Thank you for reminding that pudhukkavidhai from agnisAtchi. That is a sophisticated execution of pudhukkavidhai by KB,Vaali,MSV,SPB,PS.

Couldn't resist updating the last two lines paper arangam muzhudhum undhan pEnA munaiyin nadanam to the following:
terminal thirai koNda arangam
angun keyboard jathi thuLLum nadanam
Another pudhukkavidhai from agnisAtchi:
pushpangaL...
ilai EdugaLil kiLaip pEnAvAl
virutchangaL varaigindRa viruththangaL
vandugaL...
avatRai vAsikka varugindRana
vAdaikkAtRu...
avaigaLai vimarsikka varugindRadhu
manidhargaL mattumE
avaigaLaith thiruda varugiRArgaL

Question:
pudhukkavidhai by definition is not bound by edhugai, mOnai and, more importantly, chandham or meter, unlike marabukkavidhai. So it is more of a poetic prose and technically will not lend itself to be set to music -- again, unlike marabukkavidhai. Is that correct?
The agnisAtchi execution is excellent, since it is a melodic recital of the pudhukkavidhai with the composed music more as a BGM; so, it seems to preserve the integrity of the pudhukkavidhai definition.
But, howabout all the so-called "pudhukkavidhaigaL" of today's TFM, which are set to full composed music just like the marabukkavidhaigaL of yester-years? Do these belong to some hybrid, in-between kavidhai form--a pudhukkavidhai with meter etc.??!
From: Ramki (@ pm062-09.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Sun Jun 28 15:48:42 EDT 1998

Kanchana thanks for the clarification.

Btw how do you differentiate pudhukavidhai and marabukavidhai??Kannadasan wrote a very different song in 'sujatha'. To my years it sounds like pudhukavidhai(if this is what i think as pk;))

The varigals

nee varuvai ene naan irundhen
aen marandhai ene naan ariyen
kangal urangavillai imaigal thazhuvavillai
kavidhai ezhudha oru variyum kidiakkavillai
amaidhi izhandha manam edhayum ninaikkavillai
vaarayo

nee varuvai

adi devi undhan thozhi oru thoodhaaanal indru
iravengae pagalengae unai kanbeno endrum
virindha mugathil oru nagaiyai anindhukondu
idaiyil maraithukonda ilamai azhagu chittu
thanimai ninaivu thannai viraivil thanippadharkku vaarayo

oru medai oru thogai adhu aadadho kannae
kuzhal megam tharum naadham adhu paadadho ennai
amudha mazhaiyil muzhudhum nanaiayavittu
idaiyil maraithukonda ilamai azhagu chittu
enadhu madiyil oru pudhiya kavidhai solla vaarayo

Can this be called a pudhukavidhai??
From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-3.cisco.com) on: Mon Jun 29 13:15:28 EDT 1998

Kanchana
I agree with your definition of puthukkavithaigaL in that one does not need to worry about mA mun nirai, viLa mun nEr.. kind of sEEr structures like the way pA<.i> vagai marabukkavithaigaL are written. However, IMO, ethugai and mOnai add value to puthukkavithaigaL too. I am not clear about your second question regarding latest puthukkavithaigaL in TFM. Do you mean about TFM lyrics which by and large fall under the catagory of isaip pAdalagaL?

Ramki
As Kanchana put it, puthukkavithaigaL can be classified as poetic prose. But puthukkavithaigaL have evolved so much that they also bound to a set of minimal requirements like the vEEchchugaL and padimangaL without which the kaviththuvam will be lost. As for as film songs are concerned, they are all isaip pAdalagaL. Few lyricist try to set those puthukkavithai vEEchchukkaL into film songs too. These days VM does it in most of the songs. If you ask me, KaNNadAsan has done in so many songs, the lines that come to my mind at this time are ("aNNan kattiya vazhiyammA" from padiththAl mattum pOthumA):

thottAl suduvathu neruppAgum
thodAmal suduvathu sirippAgum
therinthE keduppathu pagaiyAgum
theriyAmal keduppathu uRavAgum..
:
:
koduththaruLvAy enRE vENdininREn
kumbitta kaigaLai muRiththu vittAy..

Any way these are all my views only..!

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