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Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Note: You may want to refer to the list of raga based film songs before posting a query.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Tue Mar 16 13:33:54 EST 1999
  
  Rama, It has to be kedaram.
  Mr.E, Sorry for the delayed response. Reflecting on what Geetha had posted, the most fool-proof method for determing the Raaga of a song would be to keep in mind the original sruthi or pitch of the song and try and determine the notes S,P,S for it or just continue playing it in that sruthi till you get an idea of the notes the tune traverses. This is much better than bring the song down to a scale of your choice and getting confused because it is so easy to start a song with any note. And yes, starting the song with different notes might end up as you have stated.
  
  
• From: aanandam (@ tsk-37-142.tm.net.my) on: Thu Mar 18 09:48:15 EST 1999
  
  Hi - I just listened to Azhagaa..Kanazhaga. It sounds EXTREMELY SIMILAR to a Carnatic song - Azhaga Azhaga ( I enjoy listening to MLV's rendition of the song ) I think the Raagam is Suddha Dhanyasi. Can anyone help ?
  
  
• From: Dhandapani (@ 207.12.164.181) on: Thu Mar 18 12:20:54 EST 1999
  
  Aanandam,
  Which movie this song - Azhaga Kanazhaga from ?
  
  
• From: Ragapriyan (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Fri Mar 19 01:11:28 EST 1999
  
  Dhandapani:
  I think aanandam is referring to the recent song
  from Vijayakant's latest movie, kaLLazhagar. The
  MD is Deva.
  
  
• From: aanandam (@ tsk-34-33.tm.net.my) on: Fri Mar 19 06:28:38 EST 1999
  
  Dhandapani :
  
  Yes, The songs from the Vijaykanth movie, Kalazhagar. I was being polite to Deva. Its a copy of the carnatic song.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Fri Mar 19 13:45:01 EST 1999
  
  aanandham: I would say that Alzalaga Kallazlaga is in Thilang/Jog..... I don't know the MLV song, but this one definitely isn't Suddha Dhanyasi!?!?! Is the Carnatic version available for listening on the net, as I don't k=have it in my collection? Thanks.
  
  
• From: Aanandam (@ tsk-34-195.tm.net.my) on: Sat Mar 20 02:56:30 EST 1999
  
  Geetha :
  
  I have not seen online versions of the song. But I have heard Sudha Raghunathan sing it. Will get back with more details.
  
  
• From: Aanandam (@ tsk-34-195.tm.net.my) on: Sat Mar 20 03:04:01 EST 1999
  
  Geetha:
  I just checked. Azhaga Azhaga is certainly Sudha Dhanyasi. My Mridangam master, Mannargudi A.Eswaran used to request MLV to sing it often. Can you confirm if the movie song is Thilang/Jog ? I dont have my keyboard to play it ! I would have compared using "Entha Nerchina".
  
  
• From: Anand (@ news.ntu.edu.sg) on: Sat Mar 20 04:34:17 EST 1999
  
  Rama,
  
  "Sundari neeyum sundaran nyaanum" in MMKR is "Kedaram" i think
  
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Sat Mar 20 05:38:08 EST 1999
  
  aanandham: I would say that Alzalaga Kallazlaga is in Thilang/Jog.
  
  Endha Nechina is in Suddha Dhanyasi......
  
  I haven't heard Azlaga Azlaga(MLV), but, as I said, the song from Kallazlagar, Azlaga Kallazlaga is definitely in Thilang/Jog, not in Suddha Dhanyasi.....
  
  Murali Shankar/RajaG/Sriram/Srikanth, can any of you confirm this? I'm not so familiar with Jog, so my initial reaction was that the song was in Thilang, but more listens said that there were some differences.....THANKS IN ADVANCE
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Sat Mar 20 05:39:32 EST 1999
  
  aanandham: I would say that Alzalaga Kallazlaga is in Thilang/Jog. Hence, it's not a copy of the MLV Azlaga song? Would I be right in saying this? They are in different Ragas for a start.....
  
  Endha Nechina is in Suddha Dhanyasi......
  
  I haven't heard Azlaga Azlaga(MLV), but, as I said, the song from Kallazlagar, Azlaga Kallazlaga is definitely in Thilang/Jog, not in Suddha Dhanyasi.....
  
  Murali Shankar/RajaG/Sriram/Srikanth, can any of you confirm if it's Thilang or Jog? I'm not so familiar with Jog, so my initial reaction was that the song was in Thilang, but more listens said that there were some differences.....THANKS IN ADVANCE
  
  
• From: E (@ nas1-32-42.chicago.navinet.net) on: Sat Mar 20 16:45:35 EST 1999
  
  Geetha & Sriram:
  
  ennoda March 6th posting pakkalaya?
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Sat Mar 20 18:57:43 EST 1999
  
  Mr.E
  I have responded to you posting in my previous posting
  
  
• From: rama (@ 166.37.14.241) on: Mon Mar 22 15:05:42 EST 1999
  
  Hello
  my friend says that the song from the movie "ponnumani" which goes "nenjukkulla innarunnu sonna puriyuma" is not based on a raga, but i feel it is well i dont know what it is?, who is right me or my friend, if me, what is the raga on which it is based on, because that song makes my hair raise, so it has to be i feel, anyone answer.
  
  
• From: Vasu (@ mail.netrisk.com) on: Tue Mar 23 13:44:55 EST 1999
  
  Geetha,
  Sorry for delayed response. The kirti in Bhavani 'Bhavapriye Bhavani' was composed by Dr.S.Ramanathan. Bhavani is a janya of Bhavapriya (Mela 44). From my memory - s r g m p d s; s n d p m g r s.
  Its a very pleasant rendering.
  
  
• From: Vasu (@ mail.netrisk.com) on: Tue Mar 23 17:17:37 EST 1999
  
  Rama,
  Though I dont know the raga of the song you are looking for, I would like to dispel a few myths. Theoretically speaking any song is based on a raga. The fundamental meaning of raga in sanskrit is expanded as 'Ranjayati iti raga' - "That which pleases is called raga". So it is very clear from the definition that it is relative to human perception. The conventional meaning that musicians (awa rasikas) hold - 'Raga is a scale'. All musical sounds, for simple and practical purposes, can be broken into 12 notes. Even the MJ's song that begins with words 'Hold me...' from the album Dangerous is based on a raga: fyi it is hamsadwani. We human beings have identified a few hundred scales out of the countless varities and of them around 200 are popular. A creative musician can bring out 'different shades' within one raga or completely create a new scale. Some scales seem to overlap. Thats why you hear lots of discussions about whether the song is based on this or that raga. After some time the discussion usually becomes subjective. For eg. a skilled musician (like IR) while composing a song in a raga can introduce a 'foreign note i.e the note, which by definition does not occur in that particular scale'. Many amateur musicians like me would have no clue of it, but equally skilled raskias can distinguish it. Also there are songs which is jarring and irritating to hear; we just cant stand them. This doesnt mean that they are not based on a raga. they still can be, but it is poorly used for human perception and pleasure. (for eg: a song sung in abaswaram or from an old tape).
  One thing to remember is 'A raga is always evolving'. For eg. the raga Mohanam as we know has around a dozen 'catchy' phrases. There may be more in it, bringing it out is the 'real imagination and challenge' of the musician. So if you think some song is really making you feel good, it does not mean in that it is based on a raga, in conventional sense. But, theoretically, it is. It is only our inability to remember or explore all the scales and limitation of memory that makes us think that this or that song is not based on a raga.
  
  Regards
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Mar 23 18:23:11 EST 1999
  
  vAsu,
  
  that was a nice posting. i would like to add a few technicalities to your posting.
  
  (1) a scale in the western music terminology means what we call "kattai" (is shruthi synonymous with kattai?)
  in indian music.
  
  (2) rAgams are technically "the modes and modulations" of a scale (in fact, as far as i understand,
  that is the definition of modes in western music theory, with a small change described below. please
  correct me if i am wrong).
  
  therefore any rAgam can be sung in any scale. the main difference between rAgam and modes is that rAgams are defined
  not just by the notes that are allowed in a particular rAgam but also how these notes are to be played
  (this is technical term for this is gamakam).
  
  i will stop the digression here.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Wed Mar 24 00:36:31 EST 1999
  
  Geetha,
  
  Sorry, I am confused too. Please go to the New faces in TFM thread. I have given a link for a beautiful song (Mallu) set in Jog (?). As I know, smara vaaram vaaram is in Jog. "Nallathor veenai seithey" and "Innunm ennai enna seyya" is in thilang. But rarely can i make out the difference. Please understand that the info provided is by some of my "Carnatic filled" friends.
  
  I was expecting you to clear this doubt :-))) SL, you are needed desperately.
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  
  
  
• From: rama (@ 166.37.14.241) on: Wed Mar 24 12:53:47 EST 1999
  
  Thanx Vasu,
  that was cool and nice, my curiosity is this, i dont know anything in raga and stuffs like that, but iam interested. Now when i get to know the raga of a song, i will try to find similar songs and relate with raga and gain some knowledge that is all. Again thanx for that cool posting Vasu
  regards
  
  
• From: Vasu (@ mail.netrisk.com) on: Wed Mar 24 13:06:15 EST 1999
  
  Murali,
  I thought Innum ennai enna seyya (Singaravelan?) is based on gambheera nattai. i guess there was some similarity with Narumugaye (iruvar?) which is also gambheera nattai.
  
  For Jog, another beautiful song (reference!) is Pramadavanam vendum (malayalam song) from HHA.
  
  Geetha,
  The aro/avaro for Bhavani I posted earlier was wrong. Sorry for that. this is the correct one:
  s r g m d n s; s n d m g r s. It is a P varja raga.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Wed Mar 24 13:33:26 EST 1999
  
  Vasu,
  
  I may be wrong. Can you give the swara pattern for Jog / thilang ?
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Wed Mar 24 14:11:00 EST 1999
  
  Rama, "NejukkuLLe" is based on Keeravani.
  Murali, Yenna saara enna periya expert-unnu nenaikkireengaLa ? I have no formal training is music of any kind except mirudangam. Anyway,please do keep posting queries. This way, I will be forced to do some homework.
  Innum ennai enna is definitely based on Gambeera naattai, certainly not Tilang. I think even "Maadathile Kanni maadathile" is also based on Gambeera Naattai. As for Jog, I remember reading somewhere that is the Hindustani equivalent for Chala Naattai. However, I will get all these info comfirmed tonight.
  Murali, I think I owe you a thanks for your explanation on fusion music. You have it now.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Wed Mar 24 14:32:26 EST 1999
  
  Murali Shankar,
  The confusion could be because , Gambhira naattai is I think referred to as Tillang in Hindustani. Check this site out
  artindia.webindia.com/nithya.htm. This was given to me by Nalini.
  
  

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