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Mumbai Moham - What do Tamils put up with the bad and mediocre singing of Mumbai artistes?

Topic started by Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on Sat Dec 1 22:44:28 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is my question....Udit Narayan, Hariharan, Sadhana Sargam, Kavitha Krishnamurti,Sonu Nigam - All sing in Tamil. But their Tamil is really very bad. Are Tamils deaf, tolerant, or have no PERUMAI in their own language? Is there really a shortage of good, tamil-speaking singers? Or is this really Tamil Inferiority Complex?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Counter (@ 208.134.115.240) on: Fri Dec 7 17:12:38 EST 2001
  
  Well.. someone has to add length to the thread. Thanks fliflo.
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Fri Dec 7 17:21:32 EST 2001
  
  indhu: send me an email. if something serious has to come out of it, it needs to be done off the df. send me an email detailing your plans/ideas; maybe i can give you some pointers.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.218) on: Fri Dec 7 17:26:26 EST 2001
  
  For me it looks this way;
  
  You guys (not to mention any name here) mad countless bad comments with which, you expect me and people like me to go 'soft-minded'. During the course, if there was a counter argument, extending to the extent of making vurnerable comments on your valid/invalid issues then you become violent and call others with all kind of nonsense words. {On the personal conut, there is absolutely no need to point out on my tamil heritage. FYI, I have had very many responsibilities than many here (this in not important, however). So I wud be please if you shut your hard tongue on these aspects. I know more number of languages than most of you here;). My kind advise to you whether you listen or not. Try to be more tolerant and be more yielding to other's views. If you are of inflexible and steadfast type attitude person you would always bound to end up this way in any argument environment.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Fri Dec 7 18:08:54 EST 2001
  
  Myth No. 587 - Purposeless and incessant annoyance is better than personal attacks.
  
  Myth No. 628 - Stupid posts should not be criticized if the tone sounds deceivingly sincere and non-biased.
  
  Myth No. 814 - If you love thamizh, you probably hate Hindi
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.218) on: Fri Dec 7 18:22:58 EST 2001
  
  Veracity # 105- hate "h'indian's tamil" just because you probably obsess tamil
  
  Veracity # 399 - Settle on personally molesties just coz the argument sounds above-board
  
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Fri Dec 7 18:36:16 EST 2001
  
  rajaG: it's not worth it. please donot waste your time here (you can waste time by calling me :-) ). the problem is not with just tfm; if you watch t.v., most mEnAminukkarkaL speak only englipIs sprinkled with nuninAkkuth tamizh :-( For any real change a massive effort is needed. the only conceivable (to me, i.e.) way is to get to the paththirikaikaL and make them constantly criticize the phonomenon! it's doable but needs more effort than online cuya-inpam!
  
  fliflo: the one who said quits was me; please don't blame it on rajaG.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.165.205) on: Fri Dec 7 20:46:02 EST 2001
  
  aruLaracan;
  
  Your suggestion to rajaG was more appropriate than many others here. Hope at least you take this in the right attitude ;-)))
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Sat Dec 8 00:19:41 EST 2001
  
  >>Here's what I've been called: Racist, Prejudiced, Know-it-all (in many different ways by WhyNot<<
  Indhu, u and I know I never said any of these about you, and I don't even think u fit into any of these categories. So I have no idea how u can think any of my comments cud have suggested as much??
  
  If u guys want to do something constructive, which all of u know will rock the boat, then u need to be prepared to hear out the opposing views. If u r not, and r going to be so easily discouraged by just a few postings (i didn't even make too many in this looong thread), then I seriously can't see how u can take this any further. Bcos once u go out into the real world and start to do something, u r going to face all sorts of oppositions and u have to be prepared to face the worst. U need to have the guts for that. So just take this as a 'practise' session and use our opposition to sharpen your arguments instead of whining that u r being called names. Cos it's all part of the game, dear. U have to get past this if u want to make a difference.
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Dec 8 00:50:05 EST 2001
  
  Touche.
  
  
  
• From: mahabs (@ 203.197.138.163) on: Sat Dec 8 05:57:11 EST 2001
  
  the problems with this thread:
  
  1. it points only the mumbai people. it is not true. not even the northies. many southies, including tamils, do this abuse.
  
  2. it serves no purpose. expressing the views is not enough.
  
  some constructive (i hope!)ideas:
  
  1. contact some movie people who have influence and interest in tamil like vm, ir and dhanu and ask them to help us in stopping this trend.
  
  2. somehow, try to register our views in widely read magazines.
  
  3. send letters to mds thro' some tamil organization.
  
  eagerly expecting your views.
  
  anbudan
  
  mahabs
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.71) on: Sat Dec 8 07:40:55 EST 2001
  
  Indhu, rajaG, aruL, oru constructive suggestion:
  
  namma NagaS irukkArE, fellow DFer, niRaya Thamizh pathirikaikaLukku katturai ezhudhukiRAr. avarai kumudham mAdhiri oru mass-circulation uLLa pathirikaiyil kArasAramAka ezhudha chollalAmE?
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Sat Dec 8 07:53:14 EST 2001
  
  Mahabs
  
  Contact VairaMuthu, the presiding deity of thamizhkkolai?? He's probably the biggest humbug that ever came out of the fake-thamizh brigade. You know his classic excuse when he broke with IR, and you know how he resurrected the same nonsense when he had a tiff with ARR.
  
  He sits smugly through all those recording sessions when the Udits and Sukhwinders mutilate Thamizh, and even speaks glowingly about such songs in the cassette release and other functions.
  He will sell his **** if it were a ? of survival
  
  The easiest way this debate can get off to a sensational start in the thamizh media is to have someone critique VM's double standards exhaustively. Something in the style of "paamaran" who wrote about some leading TF figures a while ago (in Kumudam?)
  
  But I remember, in an earlier thread someone mentioned that a long article critical of VM was not accepted by Kumudam (or AV?)
  
  Dhanu, no hope here either. A true businessman, all the thamizh-chevai be damned. Of the lyricists lot, I can only think of Arivumathi as an upright individual with suya-mariyadhai, integrity and ethics.
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Dec 8 10:40:42 EST 2001
  
  Eden,
  
  Thank you very much for your suggestions. Please (if you do have the time) go back a few pages in this thread and check out a list of ideas/concepts I had posted. I had included the idea of letters to popular tamil journals and sincere unbiased critiques on the current state of tamil music as one of the ways to counter this from recurring. I also suggested starting a webpage devoted entirely to these instances of disregard (in lyrics/pronuniciation/singing) which we find again and again these days. The webpage (if someone has the wherewithall to get on designed and going) could have new postings/critiques/feedback as and when new music albums are received. I am sure that would be an effective way to address this (among others). Do let me know what you think.
  
  Suresh: I am moved by the last three concepts of pride thta you suggest in the final line of your postings. This is, in a nutshell, my lament. Where are integrity, self-esteem, ethics in these times of rampant commercialism...
  
  Mahabs:I appreciate your criticism. While it may be true that Tamizh singers indulge this trend as well, I believe that to be an sign of how the virus of mispronunciation/lack of knowledge etc spreads. The harbingers of the trend, without prejudice, were imports from Mumbai. Given the applause and accolades their (lamentable) grasp of Tamil has received from the public in general, is it surprising that the new tamil entrants/singers see that also (once again, lamentably and illogically) as a ticket to success...?
  
  Mahabs, we have thought of the pros and cons of this debate and there have been many thought-provoking ideas and suggestions that have been put forward by many participants. I urge you to check out the back pages of this thread.
  
  Thank you once again for your thoughts and your eagerness to Act. I hope that materialises soon.
  
  Best wishes, Indhu
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.167.251) on: Sat Dec 8 11:50:29 EST 2001
  
  "mispronunciation/lack of knowledge"
  
  Good Joke..Back to square 1. It is a hard hit on mispronunciation (exclusively) by Mumbai imports.
  
  "If you guys are really constructive then you should try to appreciate their learning skills. So far there has no clear cut evidence been given on their mispronounciation aspect. Only a broad, general terminology namely 'mumbai artists and their mispronounciation" has been referred to.
  
  A german encourages to speak an Indian to learn German at any cost rather than keep criticising their mistaks. Do you know who are top German artists to-date...
  
  Sabrina Setlore and Xavier "Naidoo"..both are some way of Indian origin..
  
  Try to appreciate their skills and talents rather than psuedo-shielding yourself in an imaginary nutshell what you refer as "Tamil".
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.167.251) on: Sat Dec 8 12:19:14 EST 2001
  
  Many important tamil literature collections such as "Olaichuvadis" of Siddhas are in the hands of foreigners. If you have time, visit "Bonn university website" and try to get a grasp on what they do. Their knowledge/research and expenditure on these aspects to find out the truth about our origin is much better than some of many highly claimed 'tamils'.
  
  Is there anybody ready to talk on behalf of srilankan/singapore/malaysian tamils here. Don't they fall in your nutshell boundary?
  
  Why there is "mere wining" only about cinema 'tamil'. Cinema has never been accepted as part of tamil/tamil culture growth. If you're that true tamil lover don't give damn importance to cinema poems and singers. You may get a better perspective of what tou are talking about by reading some important quotes by our great cinema tamilians;
  
  Vaali; "Kaasukkaga Vaalai Aatum Naai Naan"
  
  Vairamuthu; "Unakku Paatu Enakku Nottu"
  
  So if you are too much worried about growth of tamil, then there are 'great achievers" like Ki.Aap.Pe. Visuvanatham, Silamboli Sellappan, T.N.K.Ventatachalam, etc..etc whose achievements are totally submerged among "other popular based tamil issues". I know many of here are about to ask me that question? My humble request is, instead of concentrating on these petty issues try to help them and "expose" their invaluable contributions. They are almost dead. You do not seem to be worried about that. If your concern is from the heart then go, bring them to publicity. Form a group to help them monetarily. Then you will be more accepted for doing great service for tamil cause. Just concentrating on petty issues like "sinna kaal periya kaal" matter, is it going to really worth for anything.
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Dec 8 12:50:33 EST 2001
  
  All ideas are welcome. What prevents people from starting their own discussion group regarding Tamil Culture? We could all benefit from it.
  
  What puzzles me is this: If this topic disgusts/dismays/disgruntles someone so such a degree then why do they bother with it in the first place? If this is indeed petty, pointless, prejudiced - one surely has the option of moving on to other more productive threads/discussions. Why not leave us to our own "biased" devices?
  
  Start a discussion on behalf of Singaporean/Malaysian/Srilankan tamils if you feel they lack representation is these fora. That way we could all visit that thread to see what they think/feel/ and how they see themselves in the greater Tamil diaspora.
  
  If this discussion is returning to Square One, then take the hint: Move On.
  
  
  

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