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IR's songs with emotional appeals....

Topic started by Raghu (@ 212.2.14.241) on Thu May 9 06:02:07 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Can we pls list some of IR's songs which were full of emotion, starting with

1) Kaadavul ullame o karunai ullame - Anbulla Rajnikanth

2) Uchi vahuntheduthu pichi poo - Rosaa poo ravukkai kaari- by SPB

3) Thempandi cheemayile - Nayakan - BY IR & Kamal

4) thakidathathame -Salanghai Oli - by SPB

5) Raaja enbar manthiri enbaar - Bhuvana oru ? - BY SPB+SJ

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: CM (@ 128.107.253.40) on: Thu May 16 14:04:19 EDT 2002
  
  Guys,
  What is more emotionally sufficient or not is a very subjective matter, there cannot be a quantitative way to measure or benchmark emotion. One can get very emotionally drawn to something while the other may not think it that way at all. So this whole comparison of whether IR was the king in emotional songs or someone else was is pointless.
  Tigger: to say that MSV hasnt done any emotional songs better than IR smacks of either pure bias or ignorance. Im not sure how one can even say that since not only was his music good but also the lyrics that went with it by the greatest of poets kannadhasan. Remember that the old movies were more melodramatic and emotional compared to the movies these days( I meant the 70's and 80's, ofcourse in the recent years we have seen obscenely implausible emotional stuff in movies like Samudhiram, Vijayakanth , Prabhu Deva and Meena starrer that i dont remeber the name).
  Betrayal by family songs of MSV include the best songs like "Annan ennada thambi ennada" from Pazhani. Just because you remember more of IR songs doesnt mean that he was the best. That may be true in your perspective but to generalize it wouldnt be a worthy.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Thu May 16 14:33:26 EDT 2002
  
  Tigger, great songs? I find them trite and awfully boring, maybe got to do with my dislike of the Rajini brand of filmmaking:)
  
  This battle of oneupmanship will take the discussion nowhere. To suggest that IR's songs for a particular mood/setting are matched by none other is to betray a selective bias colored by a 'fan' feeling, IMO. I think ranking a song by its emotional impact will be heavily colored by highly subjective factors such as nostalgia, force of habit, age, musical tastes etc...
  
  Much as I'm an ardent IR fan, I would certainly baulk at suggesting that 'Poovile Medai' scored higher in the emotional quotient stakes than 'Malarndhum malaraatha':(
  
  If it hasn't been discussed, I would like to add one more emotion that IR has always projected very successfully - the feelings of the visually challenged.
  
  1 Kaathal Oviyam (SPB missing the national award for this is a tragedy)
  
  2 Raaja Paarvai (wonderful synergy between the songs,BGM and the filming, a true visual and aural delight of all time)
  
  3 Kaasi, the latest blockbuster that has caught the fancy of the masses with rather simplistic (by IR standards) music
  
  Other standout standalone songs of this genre
  
  * 'Thendral vandhu theendum podhu' from Avathaaram
  * 'Mannava Mannava' from Walter Vetrivel
  * 'Thaazhampoove vaasam veesu' from Kai Kodukkum Kai
  
  
• From: tigger (@ 205.219.204.23) on: Thu May 16 14:40:54 EDT 2002
  
  CM,
  
  ...So this whole comparison of whether IR was the king in emotional songs or someone else was is pointless...
  
  I know. It's such a subjective thing. Someone starts a thread about IR's emotional songs, someone else says that he is the undisputed king. OK he might have got carried away a bit, but this is an IR thread after all and no other MD was mentioned. So why make a big deal out of it unless you are specifically looking for trouble. Even in the ARR thread someone said (within a week of it's release) that the Bhagat Singth sound track is the album of the year. Now I could have raised hell there if I had wanted to, right?
  
  Anyway, I shouldn't have wasted so much time arguing. It's just that this rotfl guy's conceit really irritated me and forced me to reply. He posts things like:
  
  ..I can only show you the way Tigger. But if you refuse to see, than too bad... rotfl
  
  ..The more we know, the more we realise how little we know...rotfl
  
  Is that irritating or what?!! Again I am just cutting and pasting - no scope for misquoting.
  
  
• From: tigger (@ 205.219.204.23) on: Thu May 16 14:47:51 EDT 2002
  
  ...What is more emotionally sufficient or not is a very subjective matter, there cannot be a quantitative way to measure or benchmark emotion. One can get very emotionally drawn to something while the other may not think it that way at all...CM
  
  Suresh,
  I think CM said it best.
  
  I find annan enna thambi enna great - especially the interludes. You find it trite. It is all pretty subjective. the same goes for your comments on the bro-sis songs.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Thu May 16 15:06:18 EDT 2002
  
  "It is all pretty subjective.." but, wasn't this the point I was making?!?
  
  
• From: tigger (@ 205.219.204.23) on: Thu May 16 15:18:21 EDT 2002
  
  yup!
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.22) on: Thu May 16 21:46:57 EDT 2002
  
  Subjective? To a degree...but not totally. If one says, `chitukku sellachchittukku' raises emotions of `hate', can we agree? Ok, all listeners may not have the same extent of `puthira sOgam', but few can ignore the strong feelings it evokes right from the prelude...
  
  Again, if someone says `rukku rukku roop kyA' is song evoking `love', I can only pity them...it's after all a jolly song, devoid of romance (may be `joy' can be the emotion aimed at)...
  
  My point is if categorising is possible, then it's not all that subjective:-) Analysis is still possible. Additional areas are 1. The correct kind of accompaniment / rAgams employed 2. The singers made to bring out the correct emotions (`then pAndiththamizhE') 3. Emotional preludes / interludes. 4.Aptness / enhancement to the storyline...etc
  
  It may not be possible for most of us to scientifically analyse, but I thought there are knowledgeable DFers who can do that:-))
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Fri May 17 00:28:52 EDT 2002
  
  "stop! dont break into the house", wud he turn around and ask "then which house shud i break into?" it's not the house tat is wrong, it is the process of breaking into it.
  
  WhyNot, had i got it as so straight forward i wouldn't have wasted a few KBs here. neways if someone has said that robbery is wrong in so straight forward terms then no question at all. but if someone says that u r breaking into this house that is wrong see earlier also u had such instances of robbery (even more cruel than this) and stopped there and gave only examples of those earlier robbery then the robber won't get the message. will he?
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Fri May 17 00:40:46 EDT 2002
  
  also if it seems that the earlier also u had such instances of robbery (even more cruel than this) doesn't seems to be in the intension (atleast explicitly) of saying "see there were enough robbers before u and all have perished, u also will perish so don't do robbery" then its fine. But the "earlier also u had such instances" was taking into a direction of deciding who is the bigger robber.
  
  This time ROTFL, i quote raamayana :-)
  
  When angadha went to raavana's court, who was then in the height of conceit, and explained him(raavana) that he(angadha) is the son of vaali who was more valourous than raavana and got killed by raama and he(raavana), if still continue his enemity with raama will get perished. Had angadha said that "see raavana u think u r the most valourous but my father was more valourous" then raavana wud not have got the actual message. he(raavana) would have thought that angadha has come here to argue who is more valourous raavana or vaali, and hence he(raavana) would have tried to prove he was more valourous than vaali.
  
  But enough of this harikatha. i feel that this argument is going nowhere especially both ROTFL and eden who claimed their points are not interested in taking it into further discussion and dwell upon only the collateral items, i see no value in me eating more KBs of space.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Fri May 17 00:54:51 EDT 2002
  
  What you are saying is similar to T Rajendar is the King of film making, because he has done acting, singing, directing, lyrics-writing, story-writing, etc etc.
  
  What I am doing is showing you better actors, singers, directors, lyricists, story-writers, etc.
  This being so, how can T Rajender be called the King of film making?
  
  
  Nope, eden's point was T Rajender shud be called the King of all-rounders in film making not the king of all-rounders. Hence there might be some specialist who, say, might be greater in lyrics (like KKD) than TR but this doesn't disprove claim on TR. When someone says "Maruthi is the best car for average indian for indian road and economic conditions" we need to prove it by taking the example of the likes of ambassadors or hyundais we cannot compare it with the quality of mercedez benz.
  
  as, i said i stop here. this text i typed before my replies to whynot but forgot to post here. so it might seem that again im heading for the same contention but actually im not.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Fri May 17 00:56:24 EDT 2002
  
  please read not the king of all-rounders as not the king of FILM MAKING.
  
  sorry for the error
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Fri May 17 01:02:56 EDT 2002
  
  To do justice to what i was asking from eden and ROTFL, i give an example where peeps that there might be no peer in IR's song.
  
  ROTFL,
  The situation which u said abt that feelings of abandonment by the children and the emotional support given by the wife to the husband is very unique one and i hope there wont be many songs for that situation
  
  
  A oora therinjikkitaen olaga purinjikittaen kaNmani is there.
  
  om shanthishhanthishanthihi (this is not only flagging for peace but marking the actual end that is claimed) :-)
  
  
• From: WN (@ 203.24.100.133) on: Fri May 17 01:58:25 EDT 2002
  
  "Even in the ARR thread someone said (within a week of it's release) that the Bhagat Singth sound track is the album of the year. Now I could have raised hell there if I had wanted to, right?"
  
  Who stopped u tigger? If u have wat it takes, then u shud not have hesitated to walk in there and raise hell like u claimed u wanted to.
  Jus cos ur too coy to raise hell, doesnt mean others have to adopt the same attitude. [and out of curiousity, can u quote to me who said that?...jus wondering]
  
  
  kupps, rotfl started listing at others' request. If he hadnt pointed out those examples, everyone wud have jus dismissed him as 'getting away' with it.
  
  
  "Analysis is still possible. Additional areas are 1. The correct kind of accompaniment / rAgams employed 2. The singers made to bring out the correct emotions (`then pAndiththamizhE') 3. Emotional preludes / interludes. 4.Aptness / enhancement to the storyline...etc
  
  It may not be possible for most of us to scientifically analyse, but I thought there are knowledgeable DFers who can do that:-))"
  
  Since u r such a knowledgeable DFer, why dont u do this, eden... Take the songs ROTFL gave u and use ur choice of IR songs expressing the same emotions, take them apart using the criteria u pointed out and tell us in what way those songs mentioned by ROTFL are inferior to IR's songs. Then maybe we can all learn something. Giving some vague criteria, talking abt knowledgeable DFers and then walking away wont take us anywhere.
  
  
• From: CM (@ 128.107.253.40) on: Fri May 17 02:48:13 EDT 2002
  
  Eden: I think that is precisely the reason why DF has so many fights. First of all Im not sure if 90% of the crowd that comes to this DF know to make those arguments about music quality on the basis that u have listed. So there is never bound to be a consensus or decision, why should someone take somebody decision as the right thing. Listening is ofcourse a subjective matter and one can never say this is the right thing for everyone. I like araichuvitta sambar but someother does not, may be technically making araichuvitta sambar is a little more difficult than say vathakozhambu so can we say that arachuviktta sambar is the king of all dishes?. Defenitely not, when emotions come in ther is defenitely subjectivity. As you had said that a composition can be the most technically advanced like using a very rare raaga, set to a diffcult thala but still turn out to be a flop. Does that mean that the song is technically imperfect or not worthy.If that were true then why arent carnatic musicians ranked as per a very knowledgeable critic like Subbudu. You may be surprised that the great Subbudu had praised the MD Deva, so from now on will you consider Deva to be a better MD than ARR about whom Subbudu hasnt said anything like that or for that matter consider Deva on par with IR.
  
  

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