Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 4: Vaarththai Prayoagam

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on Thu Jul 23 21:34:25 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

For a good understanding of how to approach this ongoing symposium, please refer to the thread, "Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 1:Iyarkai Varnanai" before you post. Let me reiterate that this is not a patti mandram, but
a research symposium.
Please show TFM examples of both poets with regards to just theirVaarththai Prayoagam for this thread. By vaarththai prayoagam, we mean captivating use of language, word play, different use of a known word, vocabulary, etc. Please provide the name of the song whose lines you excerpt and the name of the movie if known.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jul 27 15:36:15 EDT 1998
  
  Song: Anjali; Film:"Duet"
  VM on the consummation of lovers:
  
  Kadalilae mazhai veezhndha pin endha thuli mazhai thuli
  Kaadhalil adhu poala naan kalandhittoam kaadhali
  
  . . .
  Song: ennavalae; Film: Kaadhalan
  VM shows the vulnerability and dependance a lover feels:
  
  idhu swargamaa naragamaa solladi ullapadi
  naan vaazhvadhum vidai kondu povadhum un vaarthayil ulladhadi
  
  . . .
  Song: kannaalanae: Film: Bombay
  VM marvelously captures the futile resistance against the force of love's desire
  
  mazhai thulidhaan enna seyyumoa
  moongil kaattinil thee vizhum pozhudhu
  moongil kaadenru aayinal maadhu
  
  Song:netru illaadha: Film: Pudhiya Mugam
  For a change I will give entire stanzas for this one. This song is to show that VM can also do songs
  that build up to an effect (adukku?)
  
  kadavul illai enraen thaayai kaanum varai
  kanavu illai enraen aasai thonrum varai
  kaadhal poi enru sonnaen unnai kaanum varai
  kavidhai variyin suvai artham puriyum varai
  gangai nadhiyin suvai kadalil saerum varai
  kaadhal suvai onru thaanae kaatru veesum varai
  . . .
  vaanam illaamalae boomi undaagalaam
  vaarthai illamalae baashai undaagalaam
  kaadhal illaamal poanaal vaazhkai undaaguma
  vaasam illamalae vanna poo pookalaam
  vaasal illaamalae kaatru vandhaadalaam
  nesam illaadha vaazhvil paasam undaaguma
  
  
  Song: en veettu; Film: Gentleman
  Here, VM has written a conventional love song where there is a tug-of-war(love)
  between the male and female. Both spell out their logic behind their attitudes:
  
  male:
  vaayp paattup paadum pennae mounangal koodaadhu
  vaayp poottuch chattam ellaam pennukku aagaadhu
  female:
  vandellaam saththam poattaal poonjoalai thaangaadhu
  mottukkal saththam poattaal vandukkae kaetkaadhu
  male:
  aadikkup pinnaalae kaavaeri thaangaadhu
  female:
  aalaana pinnaalae allippoo moodaadhu
  male:
  aasai thudikkinradhae
  . . .
  female:
  sollukkum theriyaamal sollaththaan vandhaenae
  sollukkul arththam poalae sollaamal ninraenae
  male:
  sollukkum arththathukkum dhoorangal kidaiyaadhu
  sollaadha kaadhal ellaam sorggaththil saeraadhu
  female:
  ennikkai theerndhaalum muththangal theeraadhu
  male:
  ennikkai paarththaalae muththangal aagaadhu
  mmm...anubhavamoa
  
  
  Song: maargazhip poovae; Film: May Maadham
  This is just pure romantic poetry by VM:
  
  venbaa paadi varum vandukku
  sendhaen thandhuvidum sirupookkal
  konjam paada varum pennukku
  sandham thandhu vidum mainaakkal
  
  
  Song: minnalae; Film: May Maadham
  Again, this is fascinating imagery by VM about a lover's broken heart,
  also, notice the lovely rhymes in the lines:
  
  kadharik kadhari enadhu ullam udaindhu poanadhae - ingu
  sidharippoana sillil ellaam unadhu bimbamae
  kanneeril theevalarththuk kaaththirukkiraen - un
  kaaladiththadaththil naan pooththirukkiraen
  
  
  Song: thendralae; Film: Kaadhal Dhesam
  The following is a melancholic lullaby by VM. Somehow, when it comes to melancholic songs,
  the lyrics get locked in a timeless space--the words seem simultaneously old and new.
  
  karaiyin madiyil nadhiyum thoongum
  kavalai marandhu thoongu
  iravin madiyil ulagam thoongum
  iniya kanavil thoongu
  . . .
  Kaadhal endraal kavalaiya
  kannil neerin thivalaiya
  (simple and profound choice of words in these two lines)
  . . .
  thoonga vaikkum nilavae
  thookamindri
  neeaen
  vaadinaiyo
  . . .
  maalai vaanil kadhirum saiyum
  madiyil saaindhu thoongada
  boomi yaavum thoongum podhu
  poovai neeyum thoongada
  
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ b131.bernhard.wmich.edu) on: Mon Jul 27 18:33:48 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya Vaali is the lyricist for all the songs in
  'kaadhal desam'. Kadhir(dir of KD)doesnt use any other lyricist other than vaali(idhayam,uzhavan,KD
  and kaadhalar dinam)
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jul 27 19:11:17 EDT 1998
  
  Ramki, I'm sorry about this oversight. I'm completely dumbfounded by Vaali's chameleon style. He has aped VM's style totally in this song. I would have sworn anything that "Kaadhal endraal kavalaiyaa/Kannil neerin thivalayaa" is a trademark VM line. I guess "thaniththanmai" is hard to maintain these days, when PazhaniBharathi steals VM's "soodana mazhai" usage, ditto for Pulamaippiththan in "Raathiriyil Pooththirukkum" when he used VM's trademark "Raajasugam", and here Vaali comes up with uncharacteristically effusive sentiments in songs such as "Thendralae". Anyway, thanks for the correction.
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ b131.bernhard.wmich.edu) on: Mon Jul 27 20:32:46 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya i completely agree with you. Vaali can be anyone , he can write sensible lyrics like Kannadasan, pudhu kavidhais like Vmuthu or trashy songs like Gangaamaran. In my opinion, he doesnt have any style of his own and thats the reason many of his songs are considered as other kavignar songs. For a very long time i was in the impression that 'andha naal jnabagam'was written by Kannadasan,until i saw the film. Vaali had written the lyrics for all the songs in 'uyarndhamanidhan'and i was totally surprised by the kannadasanish style he had used.
  Not having an individual style could be the reason for his survival in TFM for past 30 plus years.
  Sorry for the digression guys
  
  
• From: Q-Q_isQuit (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Tue Jul 28 05:44:28 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya, Ramki:
  
  When Vaali was asked why this nick name "Vaali",
  he replied "when I stand before the opponent, I
  get half of their strength - like RAMAYANA Vaali".
  
  May be that is why - he is capable of writing like everyone!!!!
  
  But I am sure that he showed his original (other half ??) style in MGR songs.
  
  To Topic:
  
  Kannadasan was probably the ONLY ONE who used the
  style of Question & Answer format for love songs.
  (and surprisingly ALL these songs are sung by PBS)
  
  In this song he used the "kELvikku kELvi" Q&Q format.
  
  nenjathail iruppathu ENNA ENNA ?
  athai neiyooRi vaLarpathu ENNA ENNA ?
  manjathai ninaipathu ENNA ENNA ?
  oru malai pOla vaLarvathu ENNA ENNA ?
  
  kothOdu thudippathu
  nilai koLLAmal thavippathu
  aththAn enRazaipathu
  manam annEram thavippathu ENNA ENNA ?
  
  eNNam ponnAga
  kannam puNNAga
  O O Ovena pAdum pAttu ENNA ENNA ?
  kaNNil kaNNAga
  uyir ondRil ondrAga
  O O O enDru pEsach sonnathu ENNA ENNA?
  
  thollai koLLAmal
  sugam illai illAmal
  vaa vaa vaa endRu sollum sol ENNA ENNA?
  Asai koNdAda
  athi acham uNdAga
  poo poo poo endRu mArum kuNam ENNA ENNA ?
  
  Song from: vAzkai vAzvathaRkE
  
  
  
• From: arai_njAn (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Tue Jul 28 06:01:17 EDT 1998
  
  In this song Sivaji is trying to magizchipaduthify
  his kid sister who dosn't have one leg.
  
  See Kanndasan words...magizchiyAna moodil irunthu
  eppadi sOgathukku mARuthu - also MSV's tune & TMS
  voice...
  
  kaN azagu pArthAl pon ethaRku !!
  kai azagu pArthAl poo ethaRku !!
  kAl azagu pArthAl.........
  kAl azagu pArthAl theivathiRku
  karuNai endRoru pEr ethaRku ??
  
  muthu nagaiyE unnai nAn ARivEn - from En Thambi
  
  
• From: mAvadu_kaN (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Tue Jul 28 07:00:03 EDT 1998
  
  When describing another kuzanthai character...
  
  muthAnA muthaALLAVO
  muthirdhu vandha muthALLAVO
  kattAna malarALLAVO
  kadavuL thandha poruLALLAVO
  
  sinnaj siRu siRaku koNda singAra sittALLAVO
  sem mAthuLAi piLanthu sirthu varum siripALLAVO
  mAvadu kaN ALLAVO
  (what a desription to kutti pathmin's kaN)
  mainAvin mozi ALLAVO
  poovin mugam ALLAVO
  pon pOndRa udal ALLAVO
  
  vAzAtha manitharaiyum vAza vaikkum sEi ALLAVO
  pEsAtha theivathaiyum pEsa vaikkum thAi ALLAVO
  thAzang kudai ALLAVO
  thaLLAdum nadai ALLAVO
  mAlaip pozutha ALLAVO
  vaNdAdum seNdalALLAVO
  
  
  
• From: the_aththAn (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Tue Jul 28 07:08:18 EDT 1998
  
  Another classic word play by Kannathasan..
  
  aTHTHAN ennTHTHAN avar ennaiTHTHAN
  eppadi solvEnadi- avar
  kaiyaiTHTHAN koNdu mellaTHTHAN - vandhu
  kaNNaiTHTHAN...eppadi solvEnadi
  
  EnaTHTHAN ennai pAraTHTHAN
  kELaTHTHAN endRu solliTHTHAN - sendRa
  paNNEai kaNdu thudiTHTHAN
  azaiTHTHAN siriTHTHAN aNaiTHTHAN
  
  mottuTHTHAN kanni sittuTHTHAN
  muthuTHTHAN udal pattuTHTHAN - endRu
  thottuTHTHAN kaiyil iNaiTHTHAN
  vaLaiTHTHAN siriTHTHAN aNaiTHTHAN
  
  
  You know one 80's kavinjar tried with
  similar song and ended up...
  
  ChittAn chittAn chittu chinukuththAn
  antha chinna poNNu sevath poNNu enakuthAn
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate6.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Tue Jul 28 12:47:48 EDT 1998
  
  Kaviyarasarin innoru N-ila paadal...
  
  andru vandhthathum adhEN-ila
  indru vandhthathum orE N-ila
  ......
  kadhal Romeo kaNda N-ila
  kanni juliet koNda N-ila
  pavai Laila partha N-ila
  palaivanthin vaNNa N-ila
  ....
  
  BTW Bones kallakikittu irukkEENga.. enna S/W, H/W use paNNireenga ??:):):) padu speed-a ivvaLavu paadalgaLai aLLi eduthirukEEnga. sabaash...
  
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-3.cisco.com) on: Tue Jul 28 19:04:07 EDT 1998
  
  Bones
  Can you confirm if pAl..thamizhp pAl.. (from ragasiya pOlice 115) by kaviyarasar too.(I vaguely remember so). This song is another great example of vArththai p prayOgam.
  
  In the following kaNNadAsan's beautiful lines, one can appreciate his choice of words that flow with isai nayam, poruL nayam and kavinayam:
  
  kaNpattathAl unthan mEniyilE
  puNpattathO athai nARiyEn..
  puNpatta sEthiyaik kEttavudan - inthap
  peNpatta pAttai yAraRivAr..?
  
  Likewise, I like the following vAnambAdi song too:
  
  Ettil ezhuthi vaiththEn
  ezhuthiyathaich solli vaiththEn
  kEttavaLaik kANOmadA - iRaivA
  kOOttich senRa idamEthadA..
  
  Coming to VM, he certainly has used rare words in his lyrics that are really good. My choice is the following:
  
  mazhai seyyum kOLARu
  kothikkuthE pAlARu.. (song : "ponvAnam pannEEr..")
  
  iravuthORum azhuthu
  en iraNdu kaNNum pazhuthu (song : "thakida thathumi..")
  
  pARaiyOdu muttikkoNdu
  muttaikkenna vEthAntham (song : "Oh..ponmAnE..nEE pOgum pAthai..")
  
  inivarum munivarum
  thadumARum kanimaram (song : "panivizhum..")
  
  pOOjaikkAga vAzhum pOOvai
  sOORaiyAdal muRaiyO.. (song from kAthal Oviyam)
  
  He is probably the first one to use words like sOORaiyAdal, pOOvukkuL bOOgambam, dEvarOjA OOrvalam, sugantharum suganthamE etc. And he is one lyricist who has used sensitive words in the lines like
  
  vilagip pOnAl enathu sathangai
  vithavaiyAgip pOgumE.. (side note: at the time of recording, SJ refused to sing these lines but IR/VM convinced her to sing)
  
  VM has used mugam suLikkavaikkum words in lines like
  
  ethukkup poNdAtti..enna suththi vaippAtti..
  ekkachakkamAgip pOchchu enakku
  paLLikkOOdam pOgaiyilE
  paLLappatti OdaiyilE
  kokkumAchchu Agip pOchchu enakku..
  
  May be these lines will look normal from a nAttuppuRap pAdal angle, I donot know.
  
  More later..
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Jul 28 20:09:08 EDT 1998
  
  Pagalavarae ungaL mugaththil ethaRkku iruL?
  The word "mistress" and "concubine" are commonly used in English. Yet in Thamizh, vappaatti alarms the sensibility of many. I'm sure the song sequence warranted such lyrics. I can ferret out suggestive, not-so-noble lyrics by Kannadhaasan too but that will become counterproductive. Please, let's just focus on the strengths of both poets.
  This thread is going amazingly well because of postings by you, bones, and the rest. Please let's not get side-tracked.
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments