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So, WHO is doing the music for Thangar Bachchan's next film...?

Topic started by Ravi (@ 24.199.91.222) on Mon Jun 30 22:39:10 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

...titled "Thendral" starring Karthik, produced by Oscar Films V.Ravichandran. Is it Ilayaraja or Vidyasagar? Please let me know. Also, provide a link, if you guys can, where it confirms that Ilayaraja or Vidyasagar is doing the music for Thangar's next film.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Vatsa (@ 160.83.32.14) on: Wed Jul 16 17:29:49 EDT 2003
  
  V(147) and Maddy,
  
  One more thing, do not say IR is for B and C centres and ARR is for A centre. I think IR is one of the few who can satisfy all centres. Carnatic rasikas to someone who is hooked to western (beat and a loop doesnt make it western) to a normal person (in your terminology B, C class guys and according to you the guys who do not have any musical knowledge). Satisfying A centre does not necessarily means the quality is ultimate. Shakespeare's plays were popular first among the so called B and C centres and not before the queen or people in palace (which is another rubbish, as if queen or someone in the palace is the ultimate judge)... and he got popular enough to even beat the A class elites.
  Just because a person cannot satisfy some section of people doesnt mean he is a bad musician. You cannot call Yanni a bad musician because most people in India (which contributes some huge number of people) dont hear his music.
  
  Also, dont say IR is for South India and ARR is for all India, for some reason the target of audience for IR is SI primarily. ARR is popular in Hindi because of his knowing something about popular taste (including punjabi folk in his songs). ARR said this in an interview (when he described taal's success), IR does not know the knack (in my opinion). There are so many IR songs which have been copied in and out by hindi composers, polished a little to suit the tastes of Hindi people. Great example is Dhak Dhak which was in the same Superhit Muqabla for some months as No.1 (Unfortunately music director on the cards was not Ilayaraaja). To name other few, "Hum hai rahi pyar ke" had kalaignan's "Endhan Nenjil" tune ( I think the tune was totally wasted when it was copied to Hindi). That appeared as well. There are so many examples.
  I think the problem with IR not making into hidni movies is that IR's scores were too classical and experimental when he made his early appearances in Hindi. IR should have gone the way in Hindi the way he did in tamil .. first annakili (folk stuff) and series of catchy albums, atleast in that era you needed these stuff. And then some experimental and classical stuff. He went the other way. Atleast Sadma should not have so many new tunes (Check out for Vaan engum and Poongatru puthiranathu in that movie ... the guitar work and interludes ... western music is just not beats and loops), that made things worse for Raaja. Its IRs fault I guess (Maddy, just because Hindi people did not like IR's music (atleast with his name in title cards) is bad).
  
  To me, IR is a special composer who uses various musical idioms seamlessly in his music. ARR is a totally different composer who should not be compared on the same lines. Totally different styles.
  
  MADDY,
  
  I said ARR is weak in "tamil" folk (sorry not to mention tamil explicitly... because I thought you would have understood the context .. unfortunately you didnt). He has produced one or two good ones. Give me a couple of authentic tamil folk song which was very good without lyrics playing huge part like having a lot of rasathi ... rosapoo , rasa kind and atleast 50%
  as good as "Shenbagame Shenbagame" (which to my knowledge hardly has village words).
  
  One more thing, just give examples and reason before using superlatives.
  
  Vatsa (formerly V 160 not V 147, just to clear the confusion changed the name)
  
  
• From: Vatsa (@ 160.83.32.14) on: Wed Jul 16 17:35:52 EDT 2003
  
  Maddy, "(Maddy, just because Hindi people did not like IR's music (atleast with his name in title cards) is bad"
  this should be read as
  "(Maddy, just because Hindi people did not like IR's music (atleast with his name in title cards) means IR's music is bad"
  
  Sorry for this and some typos.
  
  Vatsa
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.128.115) on: Wed Jul 16 17:46:46 EDT 2003
  
  there is only one way out V.
  make people enjoy the music in its authentic form else they need not enjoy it. we dont need any pseudo enjoyment here by losing the originality or identity. iam a tamil i take pride in that. i want the norths to appreciate my music in its original form.similarly id like to appreaciate their music in its original form.[thats y i defended for devadas against saathiya when the awards were given to saathiya.try to judge urself betn both compositions. i know wat ull say]
  btw ARR is creative,
  IR is both creative and authentic.
  ARR is great,
  IR is the greatest.
  if ur sick abt my theory of satellite channels come up with a better theory to defend urself. by the way get well soon.
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.57) on: Wed Jul 16 18:23:44 EDT 2003
  
  Please post few lines atleast releated to the topic.
  
  
• From: V (@ 141.149.235.21) on: Wed Jul 16 20:56:21 EDT 2003
  
  "make people enjoy the music in its authentic form else they need not enjoy it"
  
  That is your view!
  
  Unfortunately most of India might not subscribe to that and that is evident from the reach of a "Veerapandi Kottayile" in Mumbai and a "Radha Kaise na jale" in Chennai!
  
  Do not stuff your views here and say it should be the ultimate path to be followed!
  
  I personally think all MDs should break the barrier and bring a different and creative mould to any kind of song they do(folk,reggae, classical) otherwise there is no way you can expect a person in Punjab and Haryana to listen to your Tamil Folk!
  
  I want ARR's music to be heard all over India and I am glad by his success!! I am glad he has given me his 'moulded' hindi tunes and as a south indian I loved those! I am glad his 'moulded' tamil tunes have reached the North people.
  
  I am also very very happy he did not stick to assembly line-like authentic music and did 'his own thing'!
  
  
• From: V (@ 141.149.235.21) on: Wed Jul 16 21:04:50 EDT 2003
  
  "Maybe some international sounds in Indian songs but that's about it."
  
  Ha!!!!!
  
  Thats what I am saying! The music is predominantly grounded in Indian pattern but has those international sound!!
  
  by the way "Shakalaka Baby" has already started playing in the UK clubs! I was there in UK last winter! On what grounds do you say people internationally wont like his hip stuff?
  
  You guys easily draw conclusion!
  
  Let us accept it! People aboroad are never ever going to listen to our Indian music if we dont package them in a common medium! ARR tries to do that and thats the reason you can hear Taal being re-mastered by Nitin Sawhney for UK clubs!
  
  
• From: V (@ 141.149.235.21) on: Wed Jul 16 21:05:34 EDT 2003
  
  Vatsa I have to read your post yet.
  I will reply soon.
  
  
• From: k (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Jul 16 21:19:41 EDT 2003
  
  V@141 ..can you define 'assembly line created music' ?
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.218.168) on: Wed Jul 16 22:38:11 EDT 2003
  
  hello mr.vatsa, here are some of points where ARR has scored over IR:
  1. Broke the Bombay barrier( it's not gr8 but it's tough), IR too rigid for Mumbaiya taste(they liked humdum suniyo re better than chup ke se, so guess their taste urself)...
  2. IR couldn't cater to the western music demand of youngsters, which ARR has mastered it... youth of TN proudly abandon Boy(Gay) bands for ARR.... but heavy metal is still missing from ARR , though traces found in Girlfriend(boys),
  
  but IR has scored over ARR in Tamil folk,(i wuldn't accept in carnatic) no doubt in that, ARR's folk songs were not as soul stirring as IR's.... and IR has composed the best song in TFM ever according to me (Malayil-sathriyan), so from above i wanna conlcude
  IR- Genius
  ARR- Inteligent and smart
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.11.98.63) on: Wed Jul 16 22:59:44 EDT 2003
  
  V (now that it is clear who!)
  
  I knew you would respond this way, my reference to " international sounds " meant the loops and rythms programmed outside India, which ARR liberally uses!!! No mention of the Indian pattern sounding International.
  
  UK obviously will lap up whatever bollywood dishes out. If you look at those clubs there will mostly desi population (Indian and Pakistani). Take the same and try playing it in another dance club with a load of whites and see what the result will be.
  
  V has gone from authentic Indian music to sleazy crap which clubs play which are visited by people, mostly whose music sense is not exactly keen. The only reason people go to clubs is because they can dance to the beat, They don't care what music is playing as long as there is beat in it. Since ARR does cater to MTV kind of audience , of course they will use it, by tagging it the latest bollywood hit and nothing else.
  
  Sincerely V, ARR has long way to be international with his own style of music.
  If he reaches people with MTV, V(not you) channel kind of music, what is his input? Do you think that audience really appreciates what he is creating? If an album like Sangamam, Kizhakku Cheemayilae goes international then we can really say he is going international. Till then he is just another Indian musician who fuses Indian style and western pop.
  
  Did not people like Ravi shankar, Zakir Hussain go International with their own style of music, and not with some western pop sounding music ?
  "Common medium" is this the term they use nowadays for Common Crap in western pop?
  
  All said and done it doesn't really matter if western audience likes any Indian's music. What ARR does is really good for Bollywood kind of music and he should stick to it. If we start evaluating musicians on basis of International appreciation we will see that some one like IR does figure on the popularity list, but we know the genius of IR, right?
  
  
  Jag
  
  
• From: V (@ 141.149.235.21) on: Thu Jul 17 00:24:45 EDT 2003
  
  The club that I went to in Uk was a primarily british club and not filled with desis.
  
  Anyway that is a trvial matter. ARR's composition has started appearing in radio stations in Uk and Shakalaka baby featured in the top 10 here!
  
  Bombay Dreams (atleast the show I watched) had a huge applause from a 90% white audience. Infact all the british people that watched bought a Cd of Bombay Dreams when they left!
  
  The ones that would listen to Zakir and Ravi Shankar are the ones that are musically very keen and they follow Indian classical music nuances!
  
  You cannot sell Zakir and ravi Shankar to the mainstream overseas audience unless you attempt something hip. I am not trying to say that those musicians should then turn hip! I am just saying that they have their own niche audience but that audience is not mainstream!
  
  IR's genius in western classical music will be apreciated by how many people? Only those of us that really feel the genius behind his compositions will appreciate his BGMs etc. But not everyone.
  
  ARR tries to make his music unique with the use of his vintage chors(the arr chords) and a tacky bass, not to mention the assorted percussion he uses for his songs. As an international artist he prefers to use samples. Most international artists do that! In fact it is not considered a taboo to use samples.
  
  Even the celebrated musicians Enigma use it!
  
  I agree that ARR cannot beat the simplistic heart-touching style of composition IR does like a "Nilave Vaa" or a "Thenpandi Cheemayile". But it is also true that he tries to constantly wriggle away from convention and does different things with his music like using instruments like Duduk, Irish Flute etc.
  
  Take Taal for example or even Lagaan! ARR won it when he had to compose for an entire Indian audience while retaining the rustic folk natievity of the Kutch region. ARR visited the Rann of Kutch to get the feel of the place before he composed for Lagaan.
  
  The music of Lagaan was not too authentically Gujju. Otherwise I would not have heard it! Itwas very much grounded in north indian folk but appealed widely to a cross-over audience! Thats the talent of ARR!
  
  
• From: V (@ 141.149.235.21) on: Thu Jul 17 00:36:49 EDT 2003
  
  Assembly line-like music is where there is no identity of the composer's creativity and where things sound so plain and authentic.
  
  If I want to make a carnatic song in a movie I wont compose something like what current carnatic singers sing but I will compose a song like that embellished with my own creativity so that the song is grounded in carnatic music but is tastefully different from conventional carnatic songs.
  
  Ir prefers to compose a very authentic carnatic song. I commedn him for doing so. That is his style of working! I have no problem with that!
  
  However I dont want ARR too to work that way since we already have an IR working that style. I want ARR to try something different and bring his chords into some of his compositions and not make it sound like it was composed so algrorithmically.
  
  
  Thats my take on Boys too!
  
  
  See the Girlfriend song sounds so essentially rockish, but any clever person with a good exposure to Rock music will say that the lines like "girlfriends thaane boys-in boost allava" sound so Indian and it is a complete take-off from conventional rock! That is the quality of ARR! He did not completely attempt a rock song but used his own creativity to put an ARR-identity to that song!
  
  There are no Assembly-line like rock songs in Boys. However the Rap parts are so assembly line-like (i.e. composed with a brash voice that sounds like a black rapper and has cheesy meaningless words!)
  
  

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