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IR-back to Glory. OK, but when??

Topic started by Vimal (@ lib-ws-167.lib.asu.edu) on Sun May 9 18:59:21 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hey Guys,
There has been one worrying factor lingering in my mind for many days. The number of persons loyal to IR is approaching zero. Someone had posted that even Fazil has left IR that crap movie-maker called Kalanjiyam has also ditched IR. What it all implies is we can't expect many movies from IR in future.

The probability that IR will work with ManiRathnam is near zero. KB, BR, have all left IR. Even Rajnikanth and not to forget Kamalhaasan.
So, whereand how is it all going to end?
I mean, we should not people like Deva even exist
in TFM!! How many of guys have bought a CD of Deva
with awe? I can bet it'll be near zero!

There is a degradation in TFM and the only way out
is IR joining hands with all these glorified people again. Any comments??

I'm also interested in knowing the background behind the bickerings between IR and all these people. I know we have many "FILM NEWS ANANDAN"s
in the forum. Guys, what happened?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Tue May 11 16:07:43 EDT 1999
  
  
  "I think the trend of the 90's has been a shift towards cinematography and choreography, thereby reducing the music content in the movie. May be that's why the directors are able to do with MDs far less talented than IR. "
  
  
  Great finding, I support you in this.
  
  btw: Dorai:
  Just music alone is not movie, how many western music directors we know, just few, though a MD plays a vital role, he is not the only person who contribute to the movie's sucess, but our man IR wanted this importance, which people gave. He got all the name fame, but when his demand increased they automatically avoided him.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss04.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Tue May 11 16:19:15 EDT 1999
  
  Mr.Kuzhappam:
  The mass production of romantic musicals during the 80s (every movie with a 'paatu' or 'ragam' or 'isai' in its title) can also be attributed to the fact that IR gave numerous hits during that period. None of the above mentioned directors are half as good in their field as IR is in his ! This doesn't mean that the others should be derided. But the additional touch of arrogance in IR is not all that surprising ! What bugs me is that people talk as if all these directors were very level-headed and kind and generous and only IR is egotistic ! Which is not at all true. It takes two hands to clap - both sides are equally at fault.
  
  
• From: karthik (@ charon.amdahl.com) on: Tue May 11 16:32:28 EDT 1999
  
  Kuzapam:
  
  It is not the people who r avoiding IR. The directors are. In India, hero worship has been the norm everywhere. And IR's case is no exception. He is famous and seeks importance. U will agree that the guy carried scores of movies on his shoulders. So, like Rajinikaanth or MGR earlier even IR had his own demands. Till a few years ago, every director conceded to his demands as he was the most crucial person who could ensure the success of their movies. Now the scene is different. The choreographer, the cinematographer or the art director r all critical. And with the music channel pumping in new avatars of music the audience is ready to grab any garbage so long as it is well packaged. And the result? We have MDs who fade away after composing for a movie or 2. And the ones like Deva liberally flick tunes from IR and others and deliver it in style.
  
  All this has made it easy for the film directors to isolate IR who is also tough to deal with.
  
  The true loser will be the tamil music audience.
  
  One more thing. Unlike the western movies our performing arts and motion pictures r intertwined with music. Just to quote Lata Mangeshkar, "Our films r just an excuse for songs".
  
  I do believe that the present trend id temporary. Hope the good old days with the likes of IR at the helm r back.
  
  
• From: SitaRam (@ portal.ameritech.com) on: Tue May 11 16:41:02 EDT 1999
  
  commercial success speaks volumes. No wonder mr and arr are popular and overshadowing talent. It is a mad, mad world. If you ask me MR is one of the most highly overrated people in India. Sorry to say that. IR has not been overrated enough. When listeners tastes have changed dramatically, IR's position has also gone wayward. Does that mean he has to go and look for a new career by asking those very kids whom he brought up? Rather than compose film music for these disloyal directors, it is better that IR stop composing for films. He does not seem to understand that it is a world of cacophony and confusion out there
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ charon.amdahl.com) on: Tue May 11 16:44:54 EDT 1999
  
  Kuzhapam:
  
  And one more thing. How many western composers have talent that even remotely compares with IR's? Perhaps that expalins why the release of musicals in the west have been few far in between. Even the top composer in the west struggles to release a couple of albums a year, while IR used a compose for a couple of movies a week. It is sheer talent.
  
  In my opinion, it is sacrilege to compare any other living MD with IR.
  
  
• From: karthik (@ charon.amdahl.com) on: Tue May 11 16:54:06 EDT 1999
  
  Sitaram:
  
  I agree with u 100%. MR is highly overrated. Look at his last 3 movies plus the one he directed for his wife. They all harp on the same theme of national or societal integration. Plus his obsession with terrorism. I think, our audience have gone crazy over these savvy creatures. We can see the same trend in other languages too. A person who promotes himself aggressively has the media touting his line and the public follows suit. For example, Anu Malik was derided when he plagiarized ARR. But he did some smart PR and the same media glorifies him.
  
  ARR got all the publicity he needs in the national media to take his popularity sky high. Zee, Sony and even DD glorified him to no end.
  
  But then u see, IR may be towering over everyone else in talent but he is also rustic. He doesn't know how to covet the media. So, he has been relegated to the backseat.
  
  U r right. He can use the same media that pushed him into oblivion. He should go ahead and release music albums. I bet the public will grab it.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ unknown-48-23-144.mattel.com) on: Tue May 11 16:55:13 EDT 1999
  
  Srinath,
  
  Golden words that need to be framed - "None of the above mentioned directors are half as good in their field as IR is in his !" Honestly, I think directors like MR and BR have run out of stuff. None of their recent offerings can compare with their earlier films. Would having IR score music for Iruvar or Uyire make the movie any better? It is true that visual aspects of the film are being emphasized today - which is good in some ways because cinema is truly a visual medium. IMO, there is nothing left for IR to prove. He doesn't need another MR or BR movie to prove his music mettle.
  
  
• From: e.hari (@ abd62910.ipt.aol.com) on: Tue May 11 19:21:12 EDT 1999
  
  srinath,
  I never intend to flame you, as you said, u did a
  thankless job. i never questioned the language or the content of the review, only the fact that, it was reviewed from an IR fan view. IMO, if you
  approach any music like that, you are not giving
  the music fair chance to inspire you, it is like seeing the world with one closed eye. There are some parts of Review, I dont agree with, but thats true for any review.
  
  Dorai,
  If raj kiran is not jalra, k, tell me, what is jalra?. Do u think, agaithyan would have worked with IR with out bending himself, in 80s. I still feel that if as a director, I dont have freedom to suggest or ask changes in music, what is the point of being director ( even if I dont know anything in music, it is my movie, and I should have right to decide what I want, what I dont want, and now honestly tell me, how the directors in 80s would have worked with IR).
  
  SM,
  There is no true objective listener, all of us have likes and dislikes, but probably anyone, who can appreciate something or hate something based on the quality of product rather than based on the producer of the product.
  
  hari
  
  
• From: Vimal (@ lib-ws-168.lib.asu.edu) on: Tue May 11 20:38:45 EDT 1999
  
  Ravi,
  But what about "Idhaya Kovil" or "Nadodi Thendral". Movies not worth to be even spoken about had great music because of our man.
  
  I'm still waiting to hear about the stories behind the quarrels...
  
  
• From: neruppu (@ uclang12.san.uc.edu) on: Tue May 11 22:02:52 EDT 1999
  
  Ravi, u were absolutely right about BR and MR running out of stuff. As for MR, his much touted 'talent' is highly questionable. Almost 80% of the running time in all his movies added has been 'inspired' by hollywood. Even the framing of scenes are direct lifts. O think Kamal got it right when he mentioned in an interview that MR is very clever and uses his knowledge from his M.B.A degree to 'package' his films with the right balance of entertainment value. How can such a person be termed the best director in our country? even commercial success has eluded him in the last few movies.
  however, going by track record, an IR-MR combination does seem like a great venture. But the rule of directors is not as strong as it used to be now seeing the successful films of late.
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.62) on: Tue May 11 23:48:14 EDT 1999
  
  Vimal, the fallout between IR and MR was because of MR's brother G.Venkateshwaran, who is supposed to have said something impolite to IR during the re-recording of "Dhalapathi" - our man went kaput and said "Get lost" - IR did not work with MR thereafter because of the GV factor - GV as you must be knowing is the coolest businessman, who cares two hoots for ethics etc. I am glad that Gv got his fingers badly burnt when Mciahel Jackson cancelled his proposed tour to India which was to be organised by GV - GV was literally humiliated at that time .
  
  With KB, it was pure ego problem - during the "Pudhu Pudhu Arthangal " Silver Jubilee function, KB had deliberately downplayed IR's contribution to the success of the movie. However, the fault here lies with both the guys starting with KB - that is the reason why KB went to the extent of promoting somebody like Deva (!!) in Annamalai and Vidukathai and started eulogising ARR whenever he got a chance.
  
  IR had a tiff with JJ Madam - at that time when Madam was in power, she wielded influence in the TFM and hence some producers were scared to sign IR .
  
  But I don't know why Rajini had to ditch IR - because both IR and Rajini have a common enemy in Madam ( to put it in layman's terms) -
  
  As for Kamal, he was still working with IR for Kalignan(May, 1993) ,Mahanadhi (January, 1994), Magalir Mattum (April, 1994) and Sati Leelavathi (May, 1995), long after the major chunk of TFM had deserted IR - Kamal's signing of Deva , Mahesh for his other movies was because of either IR's busy schedule or because the producers were not interested in IR.. but then Kamal is back with IR for MARud..
  
  There is an interesting anecdote about K.Vishwanath ( Salangai Oli, Sippikkul Muthu fame ) - IR was initially signed to do KV's APathbaandhavudu in telugu starring Chiranjeevi and Meenakshi Sheshadri in 1992-93. But during the recording session, IR was annoyed about KV's interfering with the tunes and just bluntly refused to work with KV any further - I was told this by a Flutist who plays for KEEravani ( MaRAgathamani) - but later KV came back to IR for his infamous flop "Chinnabbaayi"
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.130) on: Wed May 12 00:38:48 EDT 1999
  
  I'm confused as to why you guys get sooooo much cooked up about a few, fixed list of directors. Don't you remember that IR has composed for many other seasoned / unseasoned directors for great hits. Guys like R Sundarrajan could inspire him for a score of great numbers. Why even some GA movies had great music.
  
  The key is not with MR, BR or XXR. It is with IR and IR himself. He can create classicals even with non-entities like Kalanjiam. Then why get cooked up over lack of partnerships?
  
  IMO, Fazil is a relative newcomer to TF (compared to IR who has been working with veterans like Sridhar & SP Muthuraman at that time) and in any case he does not use IR regularly in MFM. If he does not sign IR for a movie, sky is not going to fall down. Tomorrow there'll be another Bharathan (remember Inji Iduppazhagi?) or Siddique-Lal who will sign him up for a great hit.
  
  IR probabaly needs optimistic admirers now!
  
  

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