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Psychology of transition

Topic started by Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on Tue Dec 9 21:31:08 EST 1997.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jun 15 15:07:04 EDT 1998
  
  Let me try posting again to activate this thread, it didn't register in the active discussions from the previous posting.
  
  
• From: TFM Group (@ neptune.webvis.net) on: Tue Jun 16 12:29:22 EDT 1998
  
  It should be active now.
  
  
• From: Chandramouli (@ kcpxy3.att.com) on: Tue Jun 16 15:48:37 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya:
  Being a DF'er for a month or so I really feel that I have missed a lot of discussion that has been done. I started reading the old responses and the experiences that each of them had and the way its been has really summed up the entire gamut of views on could have on this topic. I think it could be more apt to rename this topic and probably allow every one to talk at length about the way they adjusted to the transition. I am pretty sure that most of the DF'ers have atleast faced one transition. If Iam going to give my opinion its jsut going to echo what has already been said, but to make it more intersting I owuld suggest that every body come up with thier own experience with this transition and how they have coped up with it. This atleast brings something that DF offlate strives to get into most of its topics, the harmony and talking about TFM MD's from thier perspective. Music or for that matter any form of art is subjective, when it comes to preferences so thers no point fighting about one prefernce.
  I did go thro most of the old responses and found that there is a lot of reasons why a music fan tends to associate himself to the music of a particular MD.
  1. Somebody is born in an environ in which he is exposed to a particular MD's hit songs which may the hits of that time or the prefernces of the people around him most notably his parents, relatives and friends. I also tend to agree with the fact that one is more attached to those songs that he listens at the early part of his life. I shall ofcourse say the way I was affected but before that I shall finish putting forth my view. It may be nostalgia that keeps u reminded of that particular song, or may be the situation when u first heard that song. I have a lot such experiences in my own life.
  2. Also in my opinion I feel that a theevira rasigan also thinks that an attack on a particular MD being incompetent is more of an attack on his preferences or his taste, thats why we seem to have so much bedlam in all those topics that we had fights about. It usually starts of with a statement that a song of a particular MD is "Total crap", which does severely dents the other person's taste. Note that I found that most of the arguments are sparked of by these kind of harsh statements which is a mighty slander. Its pretty obvious that to counter such a salvo he has hit back with the best he can and so it satrts to snowball. But a theevira rasigan of Music has his pefernce for a particular MD and at the same time does appreciate works of other MD's maybe not in the public but in his person.
  
  For those theevira rasigaa's its difficult to adjust listening to the new MD's but if he is a true music rasigan he would if not publicly would silently acknowledge the other MDs work. Havent u come across so many people who have been caught humming a new tune though they owe thier allegiance to an old MD?.
  
  I had been brought up with film music right from my childhood. Iwas born when IR had started and am a hardcore fan of IR. But quite contrary to that my family which attaches more importance to Carnatic music has also been a strong influence on me. I have made three unsuccesful attempts in learning Carnatic music from vocal to instruments. I had been ridiculed by grand mother( who happened to be my guru inall my attempts ) many a times for spending to much time on film music and that too on such songs that are usually the considered "dappaankuthu". In those days we used to live in Mylapore nearby a kuppam and there was pilaiyar kovil right next to our house. Ther used to be this "through night light music conceert by A.V.Ramanan, Kames( Kamala Kamesh's husband ) and others for every "Vinayaka Chathurthi". I used to listen to it all night even when I was just 4-5 years old from our balcony. Even these days I remember most of those songs and they are my favorites,hits of IR in the 70's and earl 80's. My father was MSV and GR fan and we always used to have debates about who's the best. Since we were a joint family my Chithappa's used to live with us. They were pretty young say by 10-15 years compared to my father so they were also pretty much IR fans. The most important thing why I still latch onto old IR hits is that whenever we had power cuts, we kids and our chithappa's will have our own kutcheri's. Since there was always Carnatic music in our house we tend to like more of those sogs with a classical touch.
  So its more to do with what u are brought up with and things that u learn over the period. So if somebody is from the villages was immediately attracted to the tunes which where not too classical was in "eliya" thamizh. In my opinion that was the major reason why MSV-TKR succeded in uprooting the techinical stalwarts. And once Radio and TV became an accesible commodity people were exposed to other forms of music right from our very own rural folk songs to Pop and Jazz and even Hindustani music. But a shift in focus from tune to beat was enmerging and IR made a best of both combination which really appealed to guys like me who are still in the need for melody and at the same time wouldnt mind those heavy beats. But these days kids are exposed to MTV more than anything and to them thats the first music that they hear and are instantly attracted to it. So the present generation would go all out for ARR who has a greater western influence. All said and odne as any true Indian we have this fascination for things that are foriegn or western running undercurrent more to impress others than really satisfying our own need for good music, which is also a factor to take into account.
  Somebody who is knowledgable can appreciate the technicality of a good song which may not be catchy but to majority of the people its only the tune or the beat that instantly catches.
  
  So there has been a shift in the appeal of music over the years and as expected people have found it difficult to adjust to any thing thats not normal. What Udhaya has told being in a small town in a place away from home is a pretty usual stuff that happens to a lot of us who are away. In such a situation a thamizh song is more of an identity. Doesnt somebody who is in a different country away from home have the urge, or the tendency to mingle with our own tribe if we find them?. I have also seen that people get a lot of those tapes and CDs that they usually take along when they set of to a distant land and over the period u tend to identify with those songs cos they can really lighten u up or boost u up when u feel nostalgic, or homesick.
  I guess I have also ended up writing a big essay of very little value addition to this topic. Sorry if I have bored guys
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Jun 16 17:07:50 EDT 1998
  
  Chandramouli, that was a great addition to the thread. Please don't feel there was no value in it. The Katcheri you and your chitthappa had during power failures, wow, I've had similar experiences too. Thanks for sharing that and taking me to a fertile place in my own memory.
  
  Yes, I totally agree with your summation that an attack on an MD is also construed as an attack on the self's taste. I can't wait to read the other stories of DFers. This thread is a goldmine.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ socks8d.raleigh.ibm.com) on: Tue Jun 16 18:02:01 EDT 1998
  
  I know this is not a thread to discuss a particular MD. But seeing so many explanations for transitions and the psychology behind it, I would like to post my comments as a subject(one of those very same 'Keerazy' IR fans :-)) rather than an observer.
  It is truly a pity that unrelated factors like psychology and tastes/preferences have to 'determine' quality and change trends. I really cannot speak for other IR fans, but I personally like IR's music because, till date I have not found any other that can surpass or even equal his music in completeness.
  
  The only transitionary period I have seen is from IR to ARR. But the more I listen to ARR's songs, the more I appreciate IR. Perhaps your interpretations of psychology do not apply to me!
  
  I judge all music by fixed standards. I have no 'pleasant' or 'unpleasant' memories attached to a particular MD or his songs. As someone else mentioned earlier, my mom too says I used to sing 'Mookuththi poomele' from Mouna Geethangal (I think) as a 5-6 year old kid. I don't even know who the MD was. But that is all that nostalgia or catharsis is to me as far as TFM is concerned. But apparently, I have always been a discerning listener - for my mom used to say that as a 2 year old kid I used to 'shush' anybody who spoke whenever 'Carnatic' music was playing on the radio !
  I am sorry, IMHO it is only Marketing and Audio quality that has changed the current trend and not any genuine improvement in music. When this be the case, how can psychology play any role in transition ? Perhaps, these days people prefer to hear a song better as opposed to hearing a song that is better :-)). IRna yennakku yenna kaasa panama ? I shall always credit the man for producing the greatest music that TFM has seen/heard, and not because my childhood (TFM had the least influence on it) had anything to do with it. ARR is probably more successful because the picturisation of songs, the marketing and recording quality are more in tune with the times. If music itself had to be 'in tune' with the times, Beethoven, Mozart and Bach be doomed !
  This present change is due to the lack of ability to distinguish between good forms of music. Among the more knowledgeable crowd it is only 'political correctness' that forces them to accept the current MDs as good. The lack of ability itself can be a result of so many psychological factors. But an intention to remain 'politically correct' is akin to a crime.
  I am not saying that the current trend is bad - changes in trends have always been there. But then some changes are for the better - like the PC revolution of the '80s, and then some changes we could have lived without - like the 'drugs' of the '70s. Copernicus and Galileo were castigated for their belief in the sun as the center of the solar system. I guess that was not the trend then ! But did their theories become a lie ?
  
  I know that there are many fanatics of IR here. But I do not intend to speak for them. I believe in logic and reason. I weighed my options and with a very clear and level head, I decided what was the best. If I refuse to accept ARR's music, it is only because I refuse to compromise on quality. It has nothing to do with a Oedipus complex. Yenga Amma 30 varushama samayal pannidurukka. Yen pondatti 30 naala thaan samayal pannara. But on any given day if my wife can cook a dish better than my mom, I would be the first person to acknowledge it. Psychology should always take a back-seat to reason. I refuse to change with the times, because my mind is not the product of a whim or fancy by time. Only logic and solid proof can make me change my mind. Until then, trend or no trend, I see (or hear) and therefore I shall believe - IR to be the best.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ socks8d.raleigh.ibm.com) on: Tue Jun 16 18:14:47 EDT 1998
  
  Sorry for the broken posting, but I felt I had to add something. My love affair with IR's music started in late 1992 when I joined my college Light Music Troupe as a guitarist. At that point of time, both IR and ARR were new choices to me. In the brief period of overlap where I was a passive listener of both IR's songs and the new ARR's songs - yes, I was smitten by ARR. But fortunately or unfortunately before I could make a choice between the new and the old, I had my foray into the innards of music. That settled it once and for all. I had proof enough to realize what deserved appreciation and what didn't. That is how I made my choice. And for the reasons that I have stated earlier I have not changed my opinion.
  
  

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