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Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 12.10.193.122) on: Tue Sep 26 23:28:10 EDT 2000
  
  This thread is hopelessly pessimistic and silly. As thiruvalluvar said eons ago...
  
  "kaniyiruppa kaai kavarnthatru"...why do you guys want to stick to the unripe fruit when you do have so many ripe sweet fruits at your disposal. If you see the empty part of the glass, I see 25% of the glass filled with water.
  
  Ungalalaam enna solrathunne therila. Thread aarambikkanumnu perukku oru thread! Extreme case pa neengalaam.
  
  --Karthik
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Wed Sep 27 00:10:07 EDT 2000
  
  Karthik, if u have nothing to contribute u are welcome to leave this thread and let us discuss in peace.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ 63.15.178.19) on: Wed Sep 27 00:44:01 EDT 2000
  
  This topic in general applies to the entire Indian Film Music! I don't see the induction of technology as an improvement, because it's "kaalathin kattayam" - as AM quoted, but what is lacking is the creative use of technology to feed the souls!
  
  Now, sorry for the slight digression...
  I have always wondered why such great technical advancements can't be used for recording the sounds from those "lost in time" instruments, and produce great quality music with original and natural sounds! Is it possible to reproduce for eg., the songs of Karnan (or any old classics, Tamil or Hindi or Telugu or any language)using the same instruments as used in those days but record them now freshly for the progeny...?
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.7.218) on: Wed Sep 27 01:40:55 EDT 2000
  
  Karthik..... so you see only 25% of the cup filled. Well, that is the problem.
  
  
• From: Fan (@ 63.226.194.212) on: Wed Sep 27 03:15:06 EDT 2000
  
  1. actors demaning MDs, this is happening from MGR days, nothing new. we have more press to cover it now.
  
  2. "Asingam than" what to do ?, they will wiped out soon, time is the factor. Still there good musicians around.
  
  3. for how long? he is not as busy as before.
  
  4.some what true, but music production has changed a lot during past 10 years. There are people to Rerecording alone.
  
  5.Lip sync is for live shows how does this affect tfm, it affects live shows only.
  
  6.this is been there from 80's...we have heard jingnaku janaku to oyelala's.
  
  7.True, music is totally commercialized. music is often made for becoming popular eg;Br's son Manoj doing an album with meena, IMHO: both know nothing about music.
  
  Instead of cribbing on these issues we should come up with some solutions.
  
  
  Anand:
  1. Technology improvements - in recording, sound effects, overall quality of music delivery etc.
  
  How does TFM come into play here. Is'nt that a natural process?
  - yes it plays a vital role, we are in the world music map. we have adapted it to perfection.
  Madras has some of the best studios in asia. Music samples are made for south indian musicians. Sometime ago we had only asian and indian group now this is split as south indian and north indian. this is due to a growth in tfm. Ofcourse few MDs misuse these gadgets, but there are people who use it properly.
  
  2. Marketing of TFM
  I would'nt call it marketing. Its abuse. They have sold absolute junk.
  --- Sold the junk to whom!...i dont think we can under estimate fans.
  Music marketing has become more like consumer goods marketing, people look for package, audio quality, cds are flooding the market, and the pink tapes are now vanishing.
  
  3. Nationalisation and globalization of TFM (Northees are busy copying some TFM tunes!)
  Its is another point to validate rajaG's statement. Northies copying us indicates we are degenerating at a rapid pace.
  can you tell how ?
  (deva flicks from all forms of music -- so can we generalize every thing is degenerating)
  
  
  4. Improving the awareness and music knowledge among masses
  
  I suppose if that was the case, ARR would'nt be in this position. On the contrary the masses have lost the ability to discern. They simply do'nt care for quality.
  
  The so called masses clearly know what music is all about. Please check with production companies,try to get some statistics about the markets in a..z centers. (btw:I did it just week ago in chennai.)
  Mind it same people accepted/recjected msv or ir.
  and any one for that matter
  
  5. Song picturisations
  Has improved a lot, more and more new methods are adopted, Good example is pachai nerame, many more.
  
  6. Variety of vocals (number of singers and types of singers - eg : kids singing rather than make SJ do it all the time!)
  
  Singers these days do'nt sing with emotions and they completely lack clarity of expression.
  
  -- I am sorry there are good singers out there.
  simply you are not aware of them and not ready to accept them. eg: shanker mahadevan, hari haran, madhu, sujatha etc etc. there is more specialization, like singers train for chorus (like alto etc). the backing vocals has grown a lot.
  There are bad pronounciation, but all this will be weeded out in the process very soon.
  
  7. Variety in instrumentation - range of instruments and sounds has improved
  
  Thats the joke of the century.
  ---- might be for you know about it.
  
  , tfm uses the most mordern gadges in the industry. for eg: arr using the roland pharse sampler in simiii song. this is a latest gadget from roland. I would augument more here, more and more top carantic musicians are used, like ganesh kumeresh, viku vinayaka ram, unni, bombay jaishree
  The gap between carantic musicians and film musicians is becoming narrow now.
  
  We have come a long way.
  Talent is growing, there are few black spots, all this will be elimated, it is matter of time. we have got a long way to go.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 12.10.193.122) on: Wed Sep 27 05:33:28 EDT 2000
  
  Fan:
  
  That was a truly optimistic way of seeing things. Hats off! And yes, the future is gonna be real good. But if people want to get stuck with the same old groove and keep complaining that yesteryear songs were the best, they might never ever make an attempt to comprehend today's music. Which is their loss in any case, not TFMs!
  
  I still pity people like SL who ransack their brains to come up with a brilliant reply to my 25% water analogy! Why dont you get a hobby SL?
  
  --Karthik
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ 192.11.221.102) on: Wed Sep 27 09:45:07 EDT 2000
  
  Fan,Chandy,Karthik,
  I am opptimistic of the future as any of you guys are. I was only deriding the present.
  According to me songs are a misfit to cinema. It makes a mockery of the proceddings. A serious movie like Bombay(which was supposed to make a statement) comes up with a Humma Humma. A MTV style production quality. But thats no great shakes. Infact production quality of normal still amateur photography has gone up big time, thanks to quality of films,lens,filter,processing equip and many other technological advances.
  
  Using the current brand of synthetic insturments has'nt enlivened the proceedings one bit. The reason for ARR's success is his catchy melody. How many of the normal listeners possess the state of the art sound system to discern the sound quality.
  And carnatic music can surive without these technological advances. Even if Roland drops out t'morrow, the system will survive.
  The current crop od so called composers have become a virtual slave to machine. One should make use of these machines to enhance the skill sets but one cannot be its slave. Cut and paste and blatant copying of loops and dishing out half baked songs are defintely pointers to degeneration.
  
  Chandy: Resposes like "Joke of the century" are'nt meant to hurt one's feelings. If that was the case, my sincere apologies. But your statement did induce in me a burst of laughter and I just expressed it.
  
  SL:No news from you. Apppala telepone panneren.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 63.225.172.188) on: Wed Sep 27 09:56:20 EDT 2000
  
  anand: did you direct bombay ?
  
  also
  A MTV style production quality.
  
  --- can you explain these words
  
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ 192.11.221.102) on: Wed Sep 27 10:13:54 EDT 2000
  
  fan,
  Fortunately, I did'nt direct Bombay. I wish I could have.
  
  By MTV style, I meant the Humma Humma song gave one a feeling as though one was watching MTV. A MTV feeling is'nt necessarily a postive note.
  It gave me a terrible feeling. Infact I walked out of the movie hall after that song.
  
  Digression: I consider "Bombay" to be one the most humiliating films in our time. A very sensitive subject trivialized by crass commercialism.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Wed Sep 27 11:39:31 EDT 2000
  
  Fan:
  Note: These numbers do not correspond to the title nor to your numbering (which does not completely corresponds to the numbering in the title):-)
  
  1. There is a difference between MGR demanding better music or music/lyrics to his satisfaction versus Ajith/Vijay asking for a dubbing of a popular Western song. The first one let MSV grow, the latter kills the talents of Deva and the like.
  
  2. Let us not get into lyrics. In the 80s there were some rare songs with jingu chakku lyrics. These days there is a small percentage of songs with good lyrics.
  
  3. For all the rising stars you have mentioned in terms of new singers I can come up with a list of bad singers too. Wanna bet?
  
  Do you know when degeneration occurs? NOT when the there is a lower product. It is when people ACCEPT the lower product, and the creators of the product think "idhu pOdhum namma makkaLukku". The curse with Indian/Tamil film industry is 'it is a business' NOT a platform for art. But the creative part of TFM survived/thrived despite this otherwise 'non-artistic' endeavors called movie making. Roland la button amukkinaalEy 3 azhagaana melody/chords/rhythm kidaichchudum. idhula namma MDs peruma padaradhukku oNNUm illa.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Wed Sep 27 11:49:23 EDT 2000
  
  Fan: You must have heard the cliche "If a chimpanzee is at the type writer then within N years it will type out the complete works of Shakespeare". So you are saying that modern music making with sequencers is somewhat like that.
  
  

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