Topic started by greatest_spb_fan (@ 212.2.14.241) on Thu Aug 2 04:57:19 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
why don't anybody start a thread like 'SPB the greatest singer that India had ever produced', pls
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Raghuvaran (@ 212.2.14.241)
on: Wed Dec 19 04:52:55 EST 2001
Yakkov;
when did I say SPB, sings carnatic like ghazzals?, how on earth can one sing carnatic like a ghazal or vice versa???
Perhaps you should seek some counselling for your inadequacy for thinking!
Isai Piriyan;
Sorry 4 the mistake about Murugadas, as I am Srilankan Tamil, my pronounciation of some tamil words may vary from your self!
- From: Raghuvaran (@ 212.2.14.241)
on: Wed Dec 19 06:18:49 EST 2001
listen 2 this;
http://www.rahmanonline.com/listen/3.shtml
- From: Yakkov (@ 65.106.79.131)
on: Wed Dec 19 18:19:42 EST 2001
Hi Raghuvaran @(212...)! How are you doing?
I hope things are well with you. Please visit
http://www.english-at-home.com.
Isn't the web wonderful?
Take care, my friend.
- From: Raghuvaran (@ 212.2.14.241)
on: Thu Dec 20 04:49:33 EST 2001
Hi Yakkov How are you doing?
I hope things are well with you. Please visit
http://www.english-at-home.com.
Isn't the web wonderful?
Take care, my friend.
Was that where you have learnt your English? very good site, you must be a genius to learn from a website, did you have difficulties getting admission for schools, because of your learning difficulties, oh poor you, but there are institutes for mentally handicapped people, I am sure you will get a free admission there!!!
Good luck!
- From: Raghuvaran (@ 212.2.14.241)
on: Fri Dec 21 11:14:51 EST 2001
here is list of SPB+IR collection;
http://www.raajangahm.com/ric/song/VoiceOfSPB.html
- From: Normal Man (@ 216.144.70.231)
on: Sat Dec 22 17:00:55 EST 2001
Raghu;
The songs u have mentioned are superb!
- From: Kumar (@ 216.142.233.73)
on: Fri Dec 28 17:48:57 EST 2001
SPB sings 4 Ali arjuna, another flop from ARR!
- From: @ (@ 216.142.233.73)
on: Tue Jan 1 04:02:46 EST 2002
Raghu @212;
where are you man, please come and enlighten us!
- From: Raghuvaran (@ 212.2.14.241)
on: Wed Jan 2 04:46:38 EST 2002
Happy new year 2 all;
Listen to Sollaiyo sollaik kizhi by SPB + Swaranalatha in Alli Arjuna!
- From: Raghuvaran (@ 212.2.14.241)
on: Thu Jan 3 05:37:38 EST 2002
Dr.S.P.BalaSubrahmanyam
Pictures Music Directed by Balu
Bangaru Chilaka
Captain Krishna
Chinnodu Peddodu
Dongallo Dora
Gowtami
Jaki
Jytra Yatra
Kallu
Kanya Kumari
Lawyer Suhasini
Mayuri
Muddula Manavaralu
Neeku Naku Pellanta
O Bharya Khatha
Padamati Sandya Ragam
Ra Ra Krishnayya
Sigaram (Tamil)
Toorpu Velle Railu
Uranta Sankranti
Vivaha Bhojanambu
Dr.S.P.Bala Subrahmanyam
Year Award For Best For The Picture
2001 Padmasri - -
1998 Doctorate From Telugu University -
- Gana Gandarwa - -
1997 Bharatiya Kokila - -
1996 National Award Singer Minsara Kanavu (Tamil)
1995 National Award Singer -
19-- National Award Singer Sankara Bharanam
19-- National Award Singer Rudra Veena
19-- National Award Singer Ek Duje Keliye(Hindi)
19-- National Award Singer Sagara Sangamam-
19-- National Award Singer -
1997 Andhra Nandi Singer Priya Ragalu
1997 Andhra Nandi Dobbing Aritst Annamayya
1996 Andhra Nandi Supporitg Actor Pavitra Bhandam
1993 Andhra Nandi Singer Bhairava Dweepam
1991 Andhra Nandi Singer Chanti
19-- Tamil Nadu Nandi Actor Keladi Kalmani
2000 Lata Mangeshkar Award - -
1996 A.M.Raja Gold Medal - -
1996 A.M.Raja Vamsi Swarna Kankanam - -
2000 A.P.Film Geornalist Award Singer Ravoee Chandamama
1997 Akurathi Film Award Singer Annamayya
1997 A.P.CineGoyars Film Award Singer -
1997 A.P.CineGoyars Film Award Dobbing Aritst -
1997 Vamsi Barkli Film & TV Award Character Artist Aro Pranam
1996 Vamsi Barkli Film & TV Award Singer Vinodam
1996 Vamsi Barkli Film & TV Award Character Artist Pavitra Bhandam
1996 Akurathi Film Award Singer Pelli Sandadi
1997 Yuva Kala Vahini Film Award Character Artist Pavitra Bhandam
1997 Film Fare Award Producer Subha Sankalpam
The above information is from ;
http://www.geocities.com/drspbalu/spbaw.html
- From: Normal Man (@ 64.0.99.233)
on: Sat Jan 5 07:43:09 EST 2002
I hear SPB is to get state award for "munpaniya", I wish him all the best, even though I was expecting a national award!
- From: @ (@ 64.210.248.135)
on: Sat Jan 5 11:45:09 EST 2002
Normal Man;
where did u hear that from?
- From: Ali (@ 149.99.118.230)
on: Sun Jan 6 20:03:29 EST 2002
To all,
Much has been said about the SPB - Rafi comparison and many in this forum have
given their opinions. SPB being a great singer that he is just cannot be compared
to Rafi when it comes to singing and for that matter no one else in India can. I am
not saying this because I have any biased against any singer, I am just saying this
based purely on facts. Firstly, if you look at voice differentiation, these two artists
are totally different. SPB has a heavy bass added to his voice which he uses mostly in
his songs.....'roja janeman.....', 'pehla pehla pyar hai' etc. Often this leads
to him coming from a low bass to a normal bass and then streching out his voice. An
example being....'aate jate......kahin baar'. he way he streches out the 'baar' is just
how he streches out other words in other songs. SPB does not have the voice in which bass
does not play a major role. A voice that can reach high crecendos without sounding ominous.
Rafi on the other hand had a voice that was not to full of bass and not to soft or high
scale. He had the perfect in the middle voice. He also had the ability to reach a high crecendo
and sound the same powerful way as he usually does. Examples being 'akele akele kahn ja rahe ho',
'taqdeer ka fasana' etc. This leads us to emotion in the voice. SPB cannot convey a great deal
of emotion in all his songs as he can in others. SPB has said that he used to be jealous of Rafi
because of how such a voice could convey the emotion of each word. As SPB put it best when referring
to the song 'dewana hua badal' from Kashmir ki Kali, and the line 'yeh dekh ke dil jhooma, he said can
anybody ever say 'ma' like that??, NEVER!!. Yesudas also said that the beauty of Rafi's voice is the comfort level over
ranges which you feel when you hear his voice.
That was the beauty of Rafi that his voice was extraordinary in the fact it could convey a wide range of emotions.
A.R. Rahman said in one of is interviews that he is inspired by Rafi's voice because it could convey a
range of emotions effortlessly. His tonal quality of voice and timber was so smooth, free flowing, and
of perfectly circular, uniform cross section without any burrs, rough edges or splashes, or
out of shape even for a brief moment. SPB's sister has also said that she has never seen such
tone of expression in a voice to this day than that of Rafi's voice. Rafi's voice was also very flexible
that it could be stretched to high octaves without thinning and could be compressed to a lower
octave without affecting the shape, and could be bent and manipulated at any angle in any dimension
without disturbing the shape or cross section (alaaps, murkis, and taans). Imagine such a voice !.
Take a look at 'O duniya ke rakhwale'from Baiju Bawra:
Rafi starts normally with "mehal udaas aur galiyan sooni" and jumps up "dil kya ujada duniya ujadi".
He then advances rapidly to "hum jeevan kaise gujarein" peaks at "mandir girta phir ban jaata" and
slides down smoothly to "dil ko kaun samhaley". The vocal technicals are very smooth and effortless.
Rafi was also the best at switching from high notes to low notes without sliding from one to another.
This is not just simply going from high to low gradually such as from a base note to a 'shankara' in shankarabaranam,
but in a split-second. This is a gift which Rafi had and not something you can develop. In the song 'khilona jankar',
according to my harmonium Rafi touches the low saptak with ease in each
stanza such as 'khuda ka vasta lekar bananu' and has displayed his low octave range in other songs as well. SPB as we all
know also has displayed his low octave skills in many songs so hence there is no comparison here.
Rafi perhaps was the only singer with a rare capability of smooth ascent and descent with such a short runway.
In terms of high pitches there is no comparison between the two here as Rafi literally ruled at high pitches which is an open
fact and could match Lata 'gayaki' for 'gayaki' comprehensively and even go above her. For voice modulation,
SPB can modulate and/or sound the same for few actors such as Kamal, Salman Khan and others. If he sings for
say a Amitabh or a Prashant, his voice will not match the actor on screen just like Kumar Sanu who does not
match anyone. Rafi matched each and every actor on screen without reducing his voice quality. If you hear
a song you can visulize what actor it is on screen. Before each song, Rafi used to study the character whom he was singing for and
would fit right into his personality. Many reviews have mentioned that Rafi would sound more like the actor
than the actor himself. This is another extraordinary aspect of his voice.
In terms of singing different types of songs, both have sung many different types ranging
from fast, romantic, sad, happy, classical, pop etc. Rafi though has the edge in versatality since he could
easily glide over a song with his voice range and the ability to reach different levels as I have mentioned before.
Swami, who was an 83 year old guest on this forum last year said he had been with all the greats such as Rafi, SPB,
Lata, Yesudas etc. and said Rafi had a natural ability to glide over and reach different levels in a song which made him so great and which
no other singer could do. Combine this gliding with a range as high as the himalayas and a voice packed with emotions
is what made him so versatile. You cannot say just by the type of songs one has sung because even I can sing 5 types of
songs and another person can do the same and we can both say we are versatile. But you have to go deeper into versatality and how
they sing each type of song. I will relate an example. Ravindra Jain said on the show Sa re ga ma that he had approached
Rafi to sing the songs of Chitchor before he approahed Yesudas but Rafi told him to give the songs to Yesudas because he
was new and an upcoming singer at that time. Such was the character of Rafi that he gave it to another singer and ironically
this same singer idolizes him so much. RJ goes on to say that it is impossible to think that Rafi could not sing anything
because he could sing everything. Also, it does not matter how much songs a singer has sung for him to better. SPB may have sung
over 40,000 songs but in 1979 Rafi was the only singer to sing over 30,000 songs and SPB could only pass him after his death.
Also if you look at the quality of songs in each of their respective repetoires you will notice a difference. Rafi was in the
'golden era' of film music through the 50's to end of the 70's and throughout that time, melody was king, lyrics were beautiful
and music was just phenomenal filled with beautiful orchestras etc. All the songs which Rafi sang were beautiful and never before
imagined. Music directors used to create songs unimaginable because of the range Rafi had and made compositions to challenge his voice.
When the 80's and 90's came around music deteriorated and became worse and therefore today you see many old songs being played more than newer
ones because of the lack of quality. SPB had his best in the 70's and in th 80's with Illayaraja but in the 90's the quality of the songs are
motonous. I am not saying the how SPB sung these songs went down, but just the quality of the type of songs itself, just like A.R. Rahman
after a while sounds the same. So it is up to SPB to be careful in what he chooses these days because even he himself has said that he sees
a film song as being with good lyrics good music etc.
I have had the fourtune of getting a reply from SPB when I e-mailed him. He told me that Rafi was god to him and a singer and human being of this era.
He also told me that he met Rafi about 25 years back and only had time to touch his feet and take his blessings. His loss is a loss to music he said.
Singers right from Mukesh to Kishore to Manna Dey to Yesudas, Janaki, MS Viswanathan etc have said Rafi is the best and is their favourite. The great Lataji said
that a singer like Rafi comes once in many centuries. Such compliments are hard to find for any singer from other singers. Everyone has their own favourite.
I may like Rafi, you may like SPB, another may like Yesudas but we should keep in mind what makes them great and if we want to compare, then compare based on realistic aspects and not just personal opinion. The
majority of singers in India say Rafi and Lata are the ultimate. So why do we have to shy away from such things when they have
been laid out infront of our eyes. It is just like saying bronze is richer than gold though scientifically proven that gold is more richer. Now I know you will
respond but please don't list a whole bunch of awards and songs and say take a look at these. I have just said through different aspects that I feel Rafi is more versatile than SPb based on their
voice range of any song, not certain songs. This is logic, because if a singer does not have a high voice range then it is very unlikely they will have a high range
in a few selected songs. Rafi had a vast range which he showed in all his songs and SPb had a lower voice range than Rafi's which he has also shown in the majority of his songs. So it
is unlikely that out of the blue SPB showed up with a song where he touched the highest note etc (you know what I mean).
I do like SPB as a singer and I do admire other singers as well and all our good and have made Indian Cinema reach out to the whole world through their voices. Please respect what
I have said because my purpose is not to hurt or offend anyone but to point out to you what the beauty of Rafi was and what others have said about him and how he is incomparable.
Also, I have not seen a singer in India having more clones than Rafi. Right from Sonu Nigam, Shabbir Kumar, Mohd. Aziz, Anwar to Udit Narayan (who said he tries to sing in the Rafi style). All
of them are not even a speck of dust to the original but they do base their singing style in the way of Rafi. I read once that hearing Rafi sing made SPB try to sing in the Rafi style and when you hear him
sing you can see some shades of Rafi in his style. Such was the style of Rafi that many have tried to sing in his way. Also, many have tried to sing to sing songs of Rafi but they end up failing. This is because his songs had
such phenomenal range that it is hard for others to copy. This original aspect is with every singer because no one can sing a song as good as the original as been sung.
Another thing which I want to share my thoughts is on the north-south division. We should not divide our own culture and our own tradition. We are proud to host probably
the richest musical tradition and history in the world and still we make barriers depending on where one is from. Let me state some examples.
Rafi is admired by an enormous amount of singers in India who are south-indians (SP, Yesudas, Janaki, Hariharan, Uni Menon etc.) and music directors (MSV, ARR, etc) and many other
south-indian personalities. Same go with Lata & Asha (ex. PS, SJ, KK etc). So shouldn't we be proud that India boasts these great singers and not only like them because
from where they are. Same with music directors. The V-R combo was inspired by Shankar-Jaikishan, Illayaraja inspired by RDB and MM, ARR inspired by RDB, Naushad etc. and many actors/actresses
inspired by AB, DK and Nargis, Waheeda Rehman etc. The same is also vice-versa as many non-south indians have admired south indian artists such as violinist Subramanium, IR and so forth. So there you go. What's the fuss !!. Many heroines from the south and other
southern personalities have made it big in Mumbai. So we shouldn't discriminate against
any industry just because it is the main one. Hindustani is the common language mostly used and the Mumbai industry is the biggest that is why everyone wants to make a name for themselves there because
they know they will get a bigger audience. Also many mumbai heroines are starring in southern films which goes to show
that anyone can go to any cinema. The regional industries are also producing quality movies so we should broaden our minds and accept everything and not make foolish statement discriminating
against everyone or everything just because they don't fit what we want. A person who accepts all aspects is a person who will find magic everywhere. I hope you can share your thoughts regarding my views on these subjects.
- From: unbiased (@ 12.89.141.31)
on: Sun Jan 6 22:03:30 EST 2002
Hello Ali:
Vow....What a pronounced statement with clarity and research. I agree with you verbatim, and your conclusion. As in north like LM and Mohd Rafi so are PSusheela and others who were in the golden era of IFM between 55-70s. In my short write ups I have always persuaded listeners to avoid comparisons among singers. Each one of them is unique. LM, PS, Mohd. Rafi are legends in Indian Film Music. PS has admirerd LM as much as Lata admired PS. Its mutual. Who are we to discriminate and rate these immortals. SPB is a great singer, but he is not a legend. I listen to his songs..but..still...he is'nt close to Mohd Rafi in any way.
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