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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: mystified (@ 65.57.12.44) on: Tue Mar 12 01:18:00 EST 2002
  
  Kathik, what a coincidence. i was going to mention michael jarree and his oxygen IV composition!!! my guess was if IR was composing at such pace that he had no time for listening to music. that is observation of arr too, that IR was totally oblivious of developments outside IFM!
  
  However, when prabhu das here mentioned that celestial pop fell in the jazz category, i'm somewhat convinced that IR was inspired (IR loves jazz too much, we all know tthat) and let me tell you that music piece is no big thing. it sounded nice on the synth but IR did not make the same slower pace adaptation, instead went for some more pronounced sound, probably he wanted a song of this short and hard kind to be a filler in the movie.
  
  if that celestial pop was on air before vazhaki, then my bet is IR did get like it and adapted it. there is a lot of coincidence between the numbers.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.166.87.230) on: Tue Mar 12 01:45:23 EST 2002
  
  Now that knowledgeable people have spoken, let me add some amateur observations. I did listen to both the clips. But I dont think that this is a case of copy or inspiration. Yes, it does sound similar but the two songs have different metre - tune is made with different number of notes (am I right ?). Still there is a lot of similarity in the style of the composers. Both of these composers come from a classical background (and write their compositions down first). And are trying to do 'light' or 'popular' versions of the classical form. Both of them are into Hindu religions/spirituality. IR also has done 'New Age' kind of music but I think he did it to convey the mood or the scene in the movie whereas Ray Lynch comes from a different perspective. This 'genre' of music is there in IR's music as well but the recording technology is not..the artificially large 'space' in Ray's recording is not there in IR's.
  About 'ennadi meenakshi' - I think this is a typical rock inspired IR song. Even the tune to me sounds like the wailing of a rock guitar (the dragging of 'meenakshiiiiii'). I dont think this is inspired by the song mentioned above. It is (IMHO ofcourse) borne out of IR internalising another genre and reproducing it in his style. (Very nice ..the indianish starting and ending).
  
  BTW, if this song was on air, where did IR hear it ..short wave ? hmm..too far-fetched.
  
  
• From: NagaS (@ 203.195.223.210) on: Tue Mar 12 01:55:46 EST 2002
  
  mystified,
  
  Just a doubt,
  
  >>>> my guess was if IR was composing at such pace that he had no time for listening to music. that is observation of arr too
  
  Do you think we can compare IR and ARR here ? IR, @ peak was composing around 40 movies per year - That is around 200 songs per year, 0.55 songs (????) per day , Add the time needed for 40 full length BGMs ... I feel he should have been really busy with time for nothing else,
  
  ARR's average is 10 (That itself is very optimistic) movies per year - and probably 50 to 60 songs + 10 Movie BGMs, So I feel he will get more time per song , more time per BGM and more time for anything else - thinking, listening to others' music (I don't mean listening for **copying** :-) etc.,
  
  May be my approach is too childish .... But I feel it is logical :-)
  
  NagaS
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.203.216) on: Tue Mar 12 02:14:13 EST 2002
  
  "BTW, if this song was on air, where did IR hear it ..short wave ? hmm..too far-fetched. "
  
  Kiru, in case you are talking about "ennadi meenakshi", the fact that IR had lifted a score out of Antonio ruiz-pipo ( a name that wasnt even heard by many here perhaps) makes this inspiration not so far-fetched :-)) also you should NOT listen to the main track or the singer as you might get confused, rather concentrate on the underlying track(the guitar line)..here is another link
  
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/clipserve/B00005Q469005010/104-2475433-9315112
  
  listen from 5th second onwards carefully, its quite obvious..it was more obvious in the version that I heard originally..the notes are clearly that of "ennadi meenakshi" :-)
  
  and belive me, IR definitely had access to all these songs..if he could get inspired by Antonio Ruiz-Pipo or Boney M etc. he could have easily heard this 1974 chart topper
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.203.216) on: Tue Mar 12 02:15:37 EST 2002
  
  once again, you have to copy and paste the above link to hear the clip..
  
  
• From: NaNbaN (@ 12.239.160.236) on: Tue Mar 12 02:56:08 EST 2002
  
  Hey! ever wondered the riddle behind Jumbalaka word in En Swasa kaatre(ESK)? Look no further than Senegal's popular Music called as mbalax pronouced ["UMM BAH-LAAKH"] :-). Here is the link ot one of the popular mbalax musician Youssou N'Dour http://w3.to/youssou-ndour. click on *Full biography* link to read abt Jumbalaka sorry mbalax music.
  You can listen to bit piece of the Jumbalaka sound....just click on the song "Thiapa Thioly' near the bottom of the page in the same link.
  
  Also the song is heavily inspired by Youssou N'Dour's "This Dream" link -> http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=746722560/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/artistid=N%27DOUR*YOUSSOU/itemid=1249009
  
  The song was released in 2000, same time as ESK. But Youssou has done umpteen number of songs like that dating back to 1990 Album SET--the song is "Fakastalu". Link -> http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=746722560/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/artistid=N%27DOUR*YOUSSOU/itemid=24654
  
  ARR seemed to be inspired other by Youssou's pieces. There are lot of small overlaps in thier music. Like the Manna Madurai song's tappagoothu beat seemed to be collectively from Album Set -- One day(song), Album Guide -- Old Man and even to the latest Album YOKO -- MADEMBA(song)
  
  For me Sollayayoo Sollai Kilei beat looks little bit like "My Hope is in You" (Album YOKO). So much of clashes that this song will readily qualify as ARR song :-). I will later post the extended version of the song.
  
  Anyway, Youssou music is very refreshing/new music I heard after a long time.
  
  Karthik you got some more work to do :-).
  
  Agree or disagree
  NaNbaN is always your NaNbaN :-)
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Tue Mar 12 02:58:22 EST 2002
  
  Just a small observation before I listen to the above mentioned tracks...Youssou is known to use a lot of samples and loops, not necessarily created by himself. Like the way Deep Forest does with African music.
  
  
• From: NaNbaN (@ 12.239.160.236) on: Tue Mar 12 03:09:32 EST 2002
  
  Sorry the correct link is http://w3.to/youssou-ndour
  
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Tue Mar 12 03:13:59 EST 2002
  
  Heard the whole list mentioned by NaNbaN in the hope of hitting gold! At the outset I'd like to mention that I couldnt find any direct inspiration for any tunes mentioned. Beatwise, its of course possible if we take into account purchase of commercially available loops and samples. Youssou himself has quite a few samples and loop CDs to his credit!
  
  There another buddha-bar'ish group called Sa Trincha that has used the 'aaaaiyaaaeeyeah' kind of humming in 'Jumbalaka' that was last heard in Discovery Channel, NGC, the bgm of Bedazzled and so on. The multiplicity of citings in itself show that it has been used by not just one person and is most probably a commercially available piece.
  
  All of Youssou's tracks are available in terms of audio clippings in CDnow.com and is there for everybody to listen...listen and check the inspirations for 'jumbalaka'.
  
  
• From: prabhu das (@ 129.49.160.145) on: Tue Mar 12 03:27:00 EST 2002
  
  Anybody watched "Bedazzaled" the movie, ( Don't ask me, how I ended up watching this movie), by Liz Hurley and the Mummy Hero ( whatever his name is?), the voice screems which come in "Jumabalakka" song like a muslim clergy(?) worshipping in a mosque ( aayi aayiyo ....hojo.....aaayyi..), is a straight lift from one of the soundtracks of "Bedazzled", I will find who the original artist of that soundtrack soon, I tried searching for the Soundtracks of this movie on web, couldn't find that particular song
  
  Prabhudas
  
  
  
• From: prabhu das (@ 129.49.160.145) on: Tue Mar 12 03:30:02 EST 2002
  
  sorry pa Karthik ennaivida mundhiginaaru, the 'aaaaiyaaaeeyeah'
  
  PD
  
  
• From: mystified (@ 65.57.12.44) on: Tue Mar 12 04:08:21 EST 2002
  
  what was the song of the ennadi meenakshi inspirattion?
  
  what i was saying is: MJ's 'Beat It' has got an uncanny overlap or actually similarity with Ennadi Meenakshi including the van Halen guitar phrase. please listen to the song. i am wondering if MJ was already influenced to get a dance number a little out of his style of melody making. because you check off the wall, i don't see beat it type structure in his songs.
  
  i thought I will bring this up:
  
  two of the 'fanstastic' compositions I have heard do not come from Ilayaraja.
  
  one is: a hindi film theme was used as a signature tune for a malayalam program in radio ceylon in the late 70s, the program was called "Marivillu." It is unbelievable (runs about 5 mintues and not heard one like that hollywood or bollywood) and I tell you such a fantastic themse came from a Indian film.
  
  Second one: it was at the Disney Florida. it was a parade music (lots of butterflies characters on stilts and huge percussions). I was there in 2000.
  
  Karthik or NaNBan, have you heard these compositions. If not, get hold of them. and please let me know from whom they were!!!!
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: NaNbaN (@ 12.239.160.236) on: Tue Mar 12 06:08:51 EST 2002
  
  Karthik:
  
  Sorry to disappoint you....but it is had to find a ARR outright copy :-). Most of ARR songs are inspired by certain key elements of a song not an outright copy. I agree with your loops-logic but I can see how Senegal music is clear inspiration for the Jumbalaka song.
  
  One piece I failed contesting earlier was Braveheart lovers horse back riding BGM flute and Azhagana ratachaciya starting flute piece. The Braveheart BGM is called "Wallace Courts Murron" http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000004286/ref%3Dbr%5Flf%5F/028-3626083-4950934
  
  I see it as clear inspiration but not many agree though. what do you think?.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Tue Mar 12 06:51:45 EST 2002
  
  NaNbaN
  
  I agree that African Music (Senegalese to be specific :-) is the inspiration for ARR for the jumbalakka song...but I also think it sounds like a typical Gypsy Kings number...no particular song though...overall genre is what I'm talking about.
  
  But I think you have point about that Braveheart piece...it does seem as if ARR heard it - liked it - adapted it in the beginning of Azhagana!
  
  

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